• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

When was smoking abolished on National Rail services?

Status
Not open for further replies.

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,267
There’s a thread from a few years ago (notionally the 10th anniversary) that includes a few dates for various TOCs. It took about 6 years from start to finish:
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Scotrail84

Established Member
Joined
5 Jul 2010
Messages
2,360
GNER was definitely the last of the long distance regular InterCity operators I recall, and as I remember the then MD Chris Garnett was very reluctant to remove it - indeed I seem to recall the early "Mallard" refreshes there was a door put in coach M for the small proposed smoking area in 1st class and coach B may also have had the same - can't really recall now.


Smoking ended on GNER services on Monday 29th Aug 2005 if my memory serves me correctly. Cal sleeper lasted until 2006 I believe.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,532
It took about 6 years from start to finish:
More like 12 years: ie 1993 to 2005, as noted in the thread you quoted, maybe actually a bit longer - NSE appeared to introduce smoking bans alongside the introduction of new stock from the early 1990s.
 

Sprinter107

Member
Joined
26 Mar 2019
Messages
935
I can remember travelling on a 4 CIG set with SWR that seemed to allow smoking long after it was stopped with other operators.
 

delt1c

Established Member
Joined
4 Apr 2008
Messages
2,125
I remember when some 319.214 to 319.220 were rebuilt with a snug and buffet under the pantograph, whilst the service was wholly no smoking, it was reported that this area was normally used by smokers
 

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
3,834
I think SWT were the last TOC to ban it in 2005 and it seemed the only reason they did ban it was due to the introduction of air-con 450s. They were quite happy to let smoking continue until the end of slam door stock and, as a smoker at the time, I was fortunate to commute on slam door stock right up until the end.

I can remember travelling on a 4 CIG set with SWR that seemed to allow smoking long after it was stopped with other operators.
Quite appropriate that smoking was allowed on 4-CIG sets until the end!
 

EbbwJunction1

Established Member
Joined
25 Mar 2010
Messages
1,565
Although I understand that it's not quite the same thing, according to Mr W Pedia, smoking was banned in all enclosed work places on the following dates:
Scotland - 26th March 2006;
Wales - 2nd April 2007;
Northern Ireland - 30th April 2007;
England - 1st July 2007.

I remember being on a station somewhere in England (I can't remember where or exactly when) and being surprised to see someone smoking on the platform between the start of the Welsh ban and the start of the English ban - and then realising that, at the time it was still legal there.
 

KevinTurvey

Member
Joined
9 Oct 2016
Messages
205
Maybe I'm mistaken, but had the smoking coach disappeared from West Coast IC services by around 1993? I certainly don't recall any smoking in Virgin days although people did have a sly smoke in the vestibules.
On a similar topic when approaching Birmingham New St and also in Liverpool the guard always announced that smoking was prohibited within these areas. This must have been early 1990s as well?
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
Maybe I'm mistaken, but had the smoking coach disappeared from West Coast IC services by around 1993? I certainly don't recall any smoking in Virgin days although people did have a sly smoke in the vestibules.
On a similar topic when approaching Birmingham New St and also in Liverpool the guard always announced that smoking was prohibited within these areas. This must have been early 1990s as well?

There was definitely smoking on Virgin WC services until the Pendolinos came in. The standard class coach next to the loco, and the back half of the first class coach next to the DVT.
 

Philip

On Moderation
Joined
27 May 2007
Messages
3,646
Location
Manchester
First North Western didn't permit smoking on their 175s right from when they entered service. The lady on the onboard automated PA reminded passengers of this at the end of every stopping list announcement.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,818
Location
Yorks
Maybe I'm mistaken, but had the smoking coach disappeared from West Coast IC services by around 1993? I certainly don't recall any smoking in Virgin days although people did have a sly smoke in the vestibules.
On a similar topic when approaching Birmingham New St and also in Liverpool the guard always announced that smoking was prohibited within these areas. This must have been early 1990s as well?

There was definitely smoking on Virgin WC services until the Pendolinos came in. The standard class coach next to the loco, and the back half of the first class coach next to the DVT.

It was definately there in the late 90's. Only carriage you could get a seat half the time.
 

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
15,715
Location
Glasgow
Smoking on ScotRail day services went well before the 2000s as well.
I believe ScotRail was the first TOC to implement a total ban

First North Western didn't permit smoking on their 175s right from when they entered service. The lady on the onboard automated PA reminded passengers of this at the end of every stopping list announcement.
I think both MM and ScotRail Turbostars were fully non-smoking from the beginning, MM did permit smoking on their HSTs for a few years after though afaik
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,029
Smoking was banned on London Underground trains in July 1984 and on the S.E. division of Network Southeast B.R. trains in 1993 i.e. those from Kent, parts of East Sussex and S.E. London suburbs. I believe the first long distance trains to have smoking banned were those emanating from Paddington, which happened with no advance warning. I boarded a train at Penzance on a Thursday morning in which old-style 'no smoking' stickers had been haphazardly applied overnight at Long Rock depot, together with very authoritarian live announcements every few minutes from the guard to the effect that the train would be halted and BTP called should anyone be caught smoking, including in the toilets. I believe it was implemented on National No Smoking Day, but I can't remember the exact year.
 

duffers2324

Member
Joined
1 May 2014
Messages
168
Location
Glasgow
Yes is the answer to that this is a photo just after refurb into NX Scotrail colours, Ashtrays there albeit sealed up. Appears to be no credit of the photo on page
 

Attachments

  • Scotrail 156 Ashtrays.jpg
    Scotrail 156 Ashtrays.jpg
    30.9 KB · Views: 70

PG

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
2,809
Location
at the end of the high and low roads
Yes is the answer to that this is a photo just after refurb into NX Scotrail colours, Ashtrays there albeit sealed up. Appears to be no credit of the photo on page
That photo reminds me of when the 155s were introduced onto Portsmouth-Cardiff workings from which they were hastily removed while door modifications took place, and 156s were temporarily drafted in as replacements.
The smoking section on the 155s was half a coach exactly, including the table bay next to the mini partition, while on the 156s the table bay wasn't included. Cue 'discussions' between smokers/non-smokers as anyone sitting at the table had a no smoking widow sticker while the occupants of the seats behind blew their smoke right over/towards them! Never quite worked out why that table bay wasn't included in the smoking area - maybe because there wasn't an ashtray provided?

Edit: IIRC the mini partition on the 155s was larger with a window incorporated into it thus better delineating the two halves.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,595
Yes is the answer to that this is a photo just after refurb into NX Scotrail colours, Ashtrays there albeit sealed up. Appears to be no credit of the photo on page
I wonder if the Ashtrays were ever used? I forgot about them back seat pockets.

 

PG

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
2,809
Location
at the end of the high and low roads
Yes they were used. The smoking seats were at the inner ends of the 57 car.
Wonder why BR did it that way? Two non smoking sections separated by half a coach of smoking, same as why was coach B on HSTs the smoking one instead of using coach A? Maybe in the case of the HSTs it was deemed that the slightly reduced seating capacity of the TGS (coach A) was insufficient to accommodate the number of smokers back then.
 

Trackman

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2013
Messages
2,923
Location
Lewisham
Don't know about the saloons but they did in the cabs, along with 158s and 170s although the 170 cab ashtrays were superglued closed.
They had them in the cab of class 390's too.
I think VT tried to ban smoking in the cab when they were introduced but the unions got involved.
 

Sprinter107

Member
Joined
26 Mar 2019
Messages
935
Wonder why BR did it that way? Two non smoking sections separated by half a coach of smoking, same as why was coach B on HSTs the smoking one instead of using coach A? Maybe in the case of the HSTs it was deemed that the slightly reduced seating capacity of the TGS (coach A) was insufficient to accommodate the number of smokers back then.
I always thought it was strange. It meant non smokers walking thro a haze. The 150s were the same as built. Inner end of the 57 car.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,164
I always thought it was strange. It meant non smokers walking thro a haze. The 150s were the same as built. Inner end of the 57 car.
Perhaps to do with cabs/guard's areas being a workplace and employees' rights to be free from smoke?
 

Sprinter107

Member
Joined
26 Mar 2019
Messages
935
Perhaps to do with cabs/guard's areas being a workplace and employees' rights to be free from smoke?
Well yes, i think you're right on that, but on some of the West Midlands 150s it was moved very briefly just before it was stopped altogether to the former parcels area in the 57 car behined the cab.
 

Sad Sprinter

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2017
Messages
1,800
Location
Way on down South London town
If I recall correctly 156s and 158s had half a coach for smoking when new. I can also remember when the TGS came in a couple of years after the HSTs were introduced, my grandmother was very happy as they were all non-smoking and she hated the smoke drifing through in the other coaches that were half and half.

That would make sense, because on my trip on a 159 in 2002 I seem to remember a smoking area set into half the front coach.
 

theageofthetra

On Moderation
Joined
27 May 2012
Messages
3,504
Air China still permits smoking on flights. When the flight departs a UK airport. They are not allowed to smoke on board when the door is open (as it's subject to UK laws) soon as the door is closed it is permitted.


Air koryo as well.
Still a big problem when choosing a non smoking room in China - they simply ignore the rules, including smoking outside in the corridors.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,595
Still a big problem when choosing a non smoking room in China - they simply ignore the rules, including smoking outside in the corridors.

I recall that in the big station in Shanghai, for such a new building was smoky.
 

Deerfold

Veteran Member
Joined
26 Nov 2009
Messages
12,571
Location
Yorkshire
I remember being on a station somewhere in England (I can't remember where or exactly when) and being surprised to see someone smoking on the platform between the start of the Welsh ban and the start of the English ban - and then realising that, at the time it was still legal there.
Come to Keighley. You'll see it every day there (usual, outside plague times comment goes here).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top