When were hats for customer facing rail staff phased out?

[thenorthern]

Earlier this week I was childminding and the child I was looking after made me watch Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone which of course was filmed in 2001 so at Kings Cross it featured GNER trains although in the book it was set in 1991 so it should have featured British Rail............

Anyway when I was watching it I noticed that the GNER staff who Harry asked where Platform 9 3/4 was all wore hats which I know was part of the GNER uniform. Today however I don't think any operator's uniform includes hats so I was wondering when they were phased out and why?

 

[Fearless]

Can't answer that question but would like to offer an observation that ties in with it. My best buddy was a train driver in the last days of BR, when all drivers wore uniform that included a peaked cap. He always wore his cap, and gave the good reason that if he had to be in the engine room for any reason, the peak would prevent him bumping his forehead on machinery. It wasn't just uniform in his case, it was almost protective clothing.

 

[EM2]

Certainly Midland Mainline staff had them before the franchise went to EMT in 2007.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Would I be right if I guessed saving money was the reason behind removing hats from uniforms?

 

[Aictos]

Would I be right if I guessed saving money was the reason behind removing hats from uniforms?

IIRC when WAGN restructured the terms and conditions of their staff on the Great Northern route, the staff were given a option of keeping the hats or dropping them - needless to say the latter option was taken up quite happily which is why you don't see staff wear them on the Great Northern.

 

[Ken H]

Then there were the new uniforms created for the BR XP-64 corporate identity with distinctive hat in the 1960's
I seem to remember they were designed by Hardy Amies but cant find that online.

I think that's Charing Cross. Is that a 4-SUB?

 

[alistairlees]

Then there were the new uniforms created for the BR XP-64 corporate identity with distinctive hat in the 1960's
I seem to remember they were designed by Hardy Amies but cant find that online.

I think that's Charing Cross. Is that a 4-SUB?

It's Waterloo with one of the south bank new builds from the 1960s behind. You can find the same building on aerial shots of Waterloo.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Didn't GNER have them, possibly the last TOC to do so?

 

[jon0844]

IIRC when WAGN restructured the terms and conditions of their staff on the Great Northern route, the staff were given a option of keeping the hats or dropping them - needless to say the latter option was taken up quite happily which is why you don't see staff wear them on the Great Northern.

Great Northern have hats, and I bet in the coming days we'll be seeing them become quite popular with staff!

 

[Aictos]

Great Northern have hats, and I bet in the coming days we'll be seeing them become quite popular with staff!

Ahh woolly hats not peak hats

 

[bramling]

Earlier this week I was childminding and the child I was looking after made me watch Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone which of course was filmed in 2001 so at Kings Cross it featured GNER trains although in the book it was set in 1991 so it should have featured British Rail............

Anyway when I was watching it I noticed that the GNER staff who Harry asked where Platform 9 3/4 was all wore hats which I know was part of the GNER uniform. Today however I don't think any operator's uniform includes hats so I was wondering when they were phased out and why?

London Underground were still issuing traditional hats up until but excluding the latest uniform (if one could refer to the current clown outfit as a uniform!), which has been in for about two or three years now.

However it was optional to order and wear them - since the 1990s it’s generally been rare to see staff wearing hats. A few operational management types keep their old hats in the locker for use during incidents and special occasions - so you might occasionally see the odd person wearing a hat at events like one unders, snow, major failures, 38 stock outings.

 

[37047]

IIRC when WAGN restructured the terms and conditions of their staff on the Great Northern route, the staff were given a option of keeping the hats or dropping them - needless to say the latter option was taken up quite happily which is why you don't see staff wear them on the Great Northern.

I know a few members of Great Northern staff who wear GN-branded baseball caps, although not sure these count... though they are peaked.

 

[jon0844]

I know a few members of Great Northern staff who wear GN-branded baseball caps, although not sure these count... though they are peaked.

There's another type with covers for the ears, also peaked.

 

[Fearless]

Then there were the new uniforms created for the BR XP-64 corporate identity with distinctive hat in the 1960's
I seem to remember they were designed by Hardy Amies but cant find that online.

Very interesting article on BR corporate identity, including uniforms, but it doesn't mention Hardy Amies:
https://thebeautyoftransport.com/20...railways-corporate-identity-1964-1986-part-1/

This, for instance, was an early British Rail uniform, complete with double arrow logo on the hat and buttons, and a silhouette which clearly leans on older uniforms:

In what was perhaps British Rail’s only concession to the swinging sixties and early 70s, later uniforms featured blouson jackets sporting embarrassing giant wing collars (in rail red or blue, naturally)...

 

[Journeyman]

London Underground were still issuing traditional hats up until but excluding the latest uniform (if one could refer to the current clown outfit as a uniform!), which has been in for about two or three years now.

However it was optional to order and wear them - since the 1990s it’s generally been rare to see staff wearing hats. A few operational management types keep their old hats in the locker for use during incidents and special occasions - so you might occasionally see the odd person wearing a hat at events like one unders, snow, major failures, 38 stock outings.

I was an LU Duty Station Manager from 2000 to 2004, and wore my hat quite often when I was out and about on stations.

 

[GusB]

Very interesting article on BR corporate identity, including uniforms, but it doesn't mention Hardy Amies:
https://thebeautyoftransport.com/20...railways-corporate-identity-1964-1986-part-1/

Many thanks for posting that link - a very interesting read and plenty more material to keep me occupied

 

[big all]

It's Waterloo with one of the south bank new builds from the 1960s behind. You can find the same building on aerial shots of Waterloo.

its ironic that both those stations are probably as close as any 2 stations with platforms on the same track in the rail network at about 1/2mile charring cross platform end to waterloo east platform end
indeed less than the london bridge end off waterloo east to eurostar platform end

 

[alistairlees]

its ironic that both those stations are probably as close as any 2 stations with platforms on the same track in the rail network at about 1/2mile charring cross platform end to waterloo east platform end
indeed less than the london bridge end off waterloo east to eurostar platform end

Not quite but I get your point!

 

[big all]

yes indeed your correct a different part off the same station
i just said same track to stop the pedantic choosing stations in close proximity but on different lines like dorking deepdene and north

 

[Ken H]

It's Waterloo with one of the south bank new builds from the 1960s behind. You can find the same building on aerial shots of Waterloo.

thanks for the correction.

 

[Taunton]

Does nobody have them to wear in bad weather? On Russian railways in deep winter not a single person, staff or passengers, is without a hat.

I think that's Charing Cross. Is that a 4-SUB?

SUBs had been eliminated from Charing Cross by 1964; if you can find a photo of one there I'll Eat My Hat.

 

[bramling]

Does nobody have them to wear in bad weather? On Russian railways in deep winter not a single person, staff or passengers, is without a hat.

Plenty of staff wear things like wooly hats or baseball caps - both of which go as far as being official issue by some operators. However what has become rare in the last couple of decades is the traditional railwayman's hat. Plenty to be found on the likes of Ebay, however not generally issued nowadays. Does any TOC still issue them?

 

[Ken H]

What about senior management in bowler hat on a station? does that happen now?

 

[6Gman]

Plenty of staff wear things like wooly hats or baseball caps - both of which go as far as being official issue by some operators. However what has become rare in the last couple of decades is the traditional railwayman's hat. Plenty to be found on the likes of Ebay, however not generally issued nowadays. Does any TOC still issue them?

When I had a spat with Northern a couple of years ago the Northern-branded woolly hat was the only distinguishing feature of the member of staff who I should have spoken to, but didn't because I didn't see it until I was already on the rail replacement bus ...

 

[bramling]

What about senior management in bowler hat on a station? does that happen now?

Nowadays in some cases many very junior staff often appear smarter than various forms of management!

 

[citycat]

My old GNER cap from when I was a train guard. I still have my master key from the class 373 Eurostar sets when they worked the White Rose. Don’t tell anybody though !

 

[ChiefPlanner]

What about senior management in bowler hat on a station? does that happen now?

I very much doubt it - more is the pity

(I have a range of issued caps - 1980 Supervisor with 3 stripe gold braid , a proper "oak leaf" Station / Traffic Manager cap <with the BR log inlaid in braid on a red background> - the Management grade hat - and of course a proper Bowler for senior management use at Royal or "senior" occasions.

Bowler last used in work in 1997 for the Royal Train run on Princess Diana's funeral. Used to be issued for senior Area Management staff , and for senior Station Managers at important stations such as Euston / Paddington etc.

 

[Taunton]

I recall that into the 1980s the Senior Inspector (unlikely to have been the stationmaster overseeing departures) at Birmingham New Street still was wearing what was presumably BR 1950s senior staff uniform, with an LMR maroon grand hat with the old BR "discus-throwing lion" badge on it and lots of gold oak leaves, and a maroon suit and tie. Absolutely not corporate image, but notably swish.

Anyone else remember ?

Father was a classic large bank branch manager, and always wore a bowler. Not issued, had to buy it themselves.

 

[Highlandspring]

Bowler last used in work in 1997 for the Royal Train run on Princess Diana's funeral. Used to be issued for senior Area Management staff , and for senior Station Managers at important stations such as Euston / Paddington etc.

One of the sadder things about privatisation is that the old ‘proper’ way of doing things has gone out of the window. I reflected on that when I saw the Station Manager at Glasgow Central, who was a young graduate, meeting the Special Train without a hat when the Queen and Prince Phillip arrived to open the 2014 Commonwealth Games. Twenty years previously it would have been utterly unthinkable.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Ironically , when meeting Royalty - the drill as to remove your non uniformed hat (the bowler) , but to retain / wear the issued peak cap. My bowler is made by Dunn+ Co , rather nice. You held onto it , whilst doing the "Good Afternoon your Royal Highness spiel"

The peaked caps were made by some firm in Edinburgh (Newton ?) , one was late delivered due to a shortage of gold braid (which came from India)