When were through services from Manchester to Windermere introduced?

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Bletchleyite

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In relation to this reply on the "missed bits of infrastructure" thread:

There was no such thing as the NorthWest Express network when WCML electrification reached Oxenholme. It would have been a multiple unit shuttle just on the branch. Indeed, even in the 1980s it was a unit sent over from Newcastle (ie 143 rather than 142) that ran on the branch. I guess the point is that the electrification from Weaver Junction northward in the 1970s was a bit less comprehensive than that south of there and no one planned using 304s on the branch.

That I didn't know, I thought it had long been a through service, even if the actual "NorthWest Express" branding was a "shadow franchise" thing and only dates back to about 1995 or so.

When did through services onto the Windermere branch start, and in what form?
 
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Bevan Price

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There used to be a few in the steam era, from Manchester Exchange or Victoria.
 

JonathanH

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In relation to this reply on the "missed bits of infrastructure" thread:



That I didn't know, I thought it had long been a through service, even if the actual "NorthWest Express" branding was a "shadow franchise" thing and only dates back to about 1995 or so.

When did through services onto the Windermere branch start, and in what form?
My 1989 (and indeed 1993) timetable has a simple shuttle service on the Windermere branch - not quite hourly, last train to Lancaster.

NorthWest Express came about in 1994, I guess as a response to the increase in use of services to Manchester Airport - hourly trains roughly alternately from there to Barrow and Windermere. There had previously been some through trains to Barrow in previous timetables.

The use of 158s to Scotland was linked - eg 1648 split at Bolton for Edinburgh and Windermere.
 
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GRALISTAIR

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My records show still an Oxenholme to Windermere shuttle service in the late 1980s. As a poster has mentioned upthread, with the Manchester Airport service getting more marketing for want of a better term and of course the Windsor link that enabled it, the service started some time in the mid to late 1990s as I recall.
 

JonathanH

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Yes, started about 1995.
With respect, I have already noted in this thread that through trains from Manchester Airport to Windermere started in 1994, having checked timetables of the era.
 

52290

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With respect, I have already noted in this thread that through trains from Manchester Airport to Windermere started in 1994, having checked timetables of the era.
In the 1950's the Lakes Express carried through coaches from Euston to Windermere.
 

Cheshire Scot

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In the early / mid seventies several of the branch trains ran to/from Lancaster.

Even with the uplift in services following electrification in May '74 Oxenholme was only served by 7 down and 9 up WCML trains, three of the latter in a 90 minute a.m. window, and with some gaps of around three hours in both directions.
 

Ianno87

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With respect, I have already noted in this thread that through trains from Manchester Airport to Windermere started in 1994, having checked timetables of the era.

Hence why I said "about" 1995, and was providing further confirmation from my personal recollection.
 

Mcr Warrior

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With respect, I have already noted in this thread that through trains from Manchester Airport to Windermere started in 1994, having checked timetables of the era.
Quite right, as is stated in David Joy's "An Introduction to Cumbrian Railways" (2017) which confirms that through trains were introduced from Windermere to Manchester Airport in 1994.

(This was in addition to the enhanced service that same year, out of Barrow, which saw almost half of the twenty or so workings also going through to the airport).
 

AMR

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It was introduced with the new Class 195 Trains as I believe but I may be wrong. So late '18 early '19.
 
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In the 1950's the Lakes Express carried through coaches from Euston to Windermere.
Through trains between Euston/Windermere (complete with restaurant cars) seem to have run until May 1970.
This was about the time track rationalisation & resignalling was getting underway on the northern WCML ahead of electrification and the Windermere branch was singled.
Not sure if this ever resulted in the appearance of a brand-new Class 50 at Windermere (Class 47s were most likely the regular haulage north of Crewe)

The LMR Passenger Timetable for May 1969 to May 1970 has the following:
  • 09:05 Euston - Windermere (arr. 1353). Detached portion for Blackpool South at Preston.
    On Summer Saturdays in 1969 this ran as a full length train to Windermere and arrived at 1348 (there was a separate train to Blackpool).
  • Summer SX 11:00 Windermere - Euston. Attached a portion from Blackpool South at Preston.
    Summer SO 11:35 Windermere - Euston. Full length train to London, no Blackpool portion attached.
    Outside the summer months the 11:00 ran from Windermere to Preston only.
  • 16:15 (all year) Windermere - Euston. Restaurant car from Windermere.

From May 1970 onwards, it was just an Oxenholme shuttle with a few DMUs running though to/from Lancaster or Preston.

Even before the run-down of the branch to dead-end siding status, Windermere only ever seemed to have regular services to destinations with a L&NWR flavour - Carnforth, Lancaster, Preston & Crewe, rather than through to the big cities of Manchester & Liverpool.
Maybe well-heeled residents wanted to keep the riff-raff away from The Lakes.
At one time there was a daily residential train between Windermere & Manchester, which ran via Wigan and Tyldesley to Manchester Exchange rather than via Bolton - probably one of those long-standing routing hangovers from pre-1922 arrangements.
 

Bevan Price

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Windermere services, Summer 1955 timetable. Some destinations varied dependent on dates.
KW = Kendal & Windermere only
Oxenholme dep.
04:51 (MX from Euston, MO from Preston); (KW)
08:10
08:45
09:33 (From Preston)
10:15 (SX) (From Liverpool Exchange) / 10:20 (SO)
12:00 (SX) (From Preston) (KW)
12:19
12:35 (SO)
13:25 (SO) (From Liverpool Exchange) (KW)
13:54 (SX) (From Euston)
14:13 (SO) (From Euston & Leeds City
16:10 (SX) / 16:19 (SO) From Crewe
16:39
17:15 (SX)
17:35 (From Euston)
18:56 (KW)
19:04 (SX) (From Manchester Exchange)
21:27 (From Morecambe Euston Road)
23:40 (SX) (From Carnforth) (KW) / 23:42 (SO) (From Morecambe Euston Road)

Windermere Dep.
06:32 (Carnforth)
08:10 (Manchester Exchange & (SO) Liverpool Exchange)
09:20 (Euston)
10:05 (SO) (Crewe)
10:50 (Crewe FX/ Euston FSO; )
11:05 (SO) Leeds
11:25 (To Manchester Exchange on SO)
11:55 (SO) (Lancaster)
13:05 (SO)
14:20
15:15 or 15:23 (SO) (Liverpool Exchange)
15:23 (SX) (Preston, some dates extended to Liverpool Exchange)
16:55
17:45 (Carnforth)
18:55 (SX) Blackpool Central (KW)
19:55
20:30 (Euston; SC from Preston)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

30907

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It intrigues me what leads to such a messy timetable - were they planned as separate train pairs, or was that mess deliberate?
It reflects the WC timetable, and connections at Oxenholme (etc) which had evolved over the years - looking at the full timetable, the morning ex Liverpool balances as the evening Blackpool (both dated) while the Manchester train is obviously a "residential"...
 

The Bear

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With respect, I have already noted in this thread that through trains from Manchester Airport to Windermere started in 1994, having checked timetables of the era.
Quite right, as is stated in David Joy's "An Introduction to Cumbrian Railways" (2017) which confirms that through trains were introduced from Windermere to Manchester Airport in 1994.

(This was in addition to the enhanced service that same year, out of Barrow, which saw almost half of the twenty or so workings also going through to the airport).
That's correct.
Prior to 1994 the units & crews came from Carlisle. The unit coming ECS from Carlisle in the morning & retuning likewise at night. This resulted in the regular appearance of Tyne & Wear 143s on the branch and on the odd occasion a Strathclyde PTE 156.
From 1994 the work was transferred to Barrow/Blackpool/Manchester. It was this move which enabled the through services to Manchester to be started.
At one point (the dates/years escape me) during the daytime every other service ran as a through train to Manchester.


It was introduced with the new Class 195 Trains as I believe but I may be wrong. So late '18 early '19.
Between around 2015-2017 the number of through trains were reduced to two, although the afternoon one only ran to Preston. Which to be fair this period was probably one of the most stable in terms of cancellations and delays.
This during the period just post franchise changes with Northern hiring 2or3 185s to cover Furness & Lakes Line services prior to the 195s arriving.
During this period the branch daytime shuttles was covered by 153+156 combo with a 185 covering the morning & evening.
Now the normal branch timetable (not the current emergency Covid timetable) which is; during the daytime every third service runs as a through service to Manchester with a morning & evening shuttle.
 
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