When will Scotland return to some sort of normal?

[Bletchleyite]

This is a fair point, does anyone know where this guidance stands in terms of GDPR? I would have assumed that these businesses simply wouldn't be allowed to take this sort of information, or has GDPR temporarily been amended/lifted?

Legitimate interest would be an acceptable basis for it - it is in your interest that you are informed if you may have an infectious disease, and also in the interest of others around you.

 

[applepie2100]

This is a fair point, does anyone know where this guidance stands in terms of GDPR? I would have assumed that these businesses simply wouldn't be allowed to take this sort of information, or has GDPR temporarily been amended/lifted?

I don't think that you can just amend or lift GDPR and I reckon that the Information Commissioners Office might have something to say if you tried. The GDPR principles are very clear and provide a framework that anyone who is obtaining or processing information must work within. Operating in the new guidance I'd say that it's pretty clear that pubs/restaurants/cafes and their staff will be doing both. They also need to provide clear information about the security of your data and the retention of it. To some it might "only" be contact details but that information is still classed as personal data. I think that these are all questions that our First Minister has to answer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The easiest way to comply would be a paper form. They literally only need your name, phone number (for contact tracing purposes) and possibly first line of address and postcode at a push - arguably only the former two items. They could place these forms in a slotted, locked box similar to a ballot box, and at the end of each day transfer them to a dated envelope and put them in their cash safe. They would be shredded (or put in the fire, if they have one) at the end of the specified period. If the contact tracers call, they provide the information to them for that day then shred or burn the form.

I can't really see an issue there at all.

 

[applepie2100]

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...pubs-collecting-data-for-coronavirus-tracing/

A quote from this article recently published by New Scientist makes for interesting reading:

“Either it will be done in an organised, competent way, which will be a huge risk because it’s quite intrusive, showing where you were, how long for, and – at least by inference – who you were with,” says Tim Turner, a UK-based data protection expert. Alternatively, pubs will collect a huge range of inconsistent, probably unverified data, he says.

It also mentions concerns about how data is stored and processed. It does look like legally there may well be some concerns with the whole idea and these do need to be addressed not only in Scotland but the other parts of the UK too.

 

[Journeyman]

This is a fair point, does anyone know where this guidance stands in terms of GDPR? I would have assumed that these businesses simply wouldn't be allowed to take this sort of information, or has GDPR temporarily been amended/lifted?

It wouldn't surprise me if the requirements for GDPR are suspended under some sort of emergency legislation. This, combined with companies who aren't used to handling this sort of data, rings a LOT of alarm bells. I feel it's making us extremely vulnerable to both hackers and government snooping.

 

[Journeyman]

The easiest way to comply would be a paper form. They literally only need your name, phone number (for contact tracing purposes) and possibly first line of address and postcode at a push - arguably only the former two items. They could place these forms in a slotted, locked box similar to a ballot box, and at the end of each day transfer them to a dated envelope and put them in their cash safe. They would be shredded (or put in the fire, if they have one) at the end of the specified period. If the contact tracers call, they provide the information to them for that day then shred or burn the form.

I can't really see an issue there at all.

I wouldn't have an issue with that, but you can guarantee it'll probably be collected electronically and stored under all sorts of dodgy and insecure conditions.

 

[kez19]

This is a fair point, does anyone know where this guidance stands in terms of GDPR? I would have assumed that these businesses simply wouldn't be allowed to take this sort of information, or has GDPR temporarily been amended/lifted?

The thing is just to pick up on data management in hospitality but hotels already do that do they not? If you have booked through their sites or 3rd party sites, they know who you are etc? (I use a hotel in England, I have got to know the hotel/staff as they have got to know me, not that part bothers me) unless I am missing something?

 

[fishquinn]

Am I correct in thinking the plan is for a full public transport service to restart by the 15th of July (instead of the rather pitiful 1tp2h between Glasgow and Perth there currently is)?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Am I correct in thinking the plan is for a full public transport service to restart by the 15th of July (instead of the rather pitiful 1tp2h between Glasgow and Perth there currently is)?

That was indicated in the initial route map set out by the Scottish Government, however there were no remarks regarding that in today's parliamentary statement by Sturgeon.

 

[Huntergreed]

Am I correct in thinking the plan is for a full public transport service to restart by the 15th of July (instead of the rather pitiful 1tp2h between Glasgow and Perth there currently is)?

Part of phase 3 according to the route map is that a full service is restored so I would say this is a safe assumption to make!

 

[Gadget88]

Are the Scottish news briefings being axed like in England?

 

[Huntergreed]

Are the Scottish news briefings being axed like in England?

I don't think so yet. We are roughly 2 weeks behind England so this will likely follow the same pattern and end around the start of July in line with the opening of hospitality and the lifting of the '5-mile' travel guidance.

 

[Journeyman]

The thing is just to pick up on data management in hospitality but hotels already do that do they not? If you have booked through their sites or 3rd party sites, they know who you are etc? (I use a hotel in England, I have got to know the hotel/staff as they have got to know me, not that part bothers me) unless I am missing something?

Thing is, I'm reasonably confident that hotels have adequate data protection in place, because it's their job, and they're used to collecting personal data. Cafes and pubs are probably going to throw something very inadequate together.

 

[DelayRepay]

Thing is, I'm reasonably confident that hotels have adequate data protection in place, because it's their job, and they're used to collecting personal data.

Except for Marriott International.

 

[fishquinn]

That was indicated in the initial route map set out by the Scottish Government, however there were no remarks regarding that in today's parliamentary statement by Sturgeon.

Part of phase 3 according to the route map is that a full service is restored so I would say this is a safe assumption to make!

Hoping for a better service than the one at present for sure!

 

[kez19]

Thing is, I'm reasonably confident that hotels have adequate data protection in place, because it's their job, and they're used to collecting personal data. Cafes and pubs are probably going to throw something very inadequate together.

Don't get me wrong, it could be a step too far in regards to pubs asking for personal info I reckon, I just thought with the mentioning of hotels holding onto data (which I didn't think was new.... let alone I have no idea in reality how long they keep data for), you could also say that places have CCTV in place so surely things could be tracked that way surely? Why not if they wanted ask Google/Apple for back catalogue of whereabouts you we're? They are that quick in finding info about you by stealth but lets put the pubs/cafes in the limelight to gather more info.... If I was them I tell the government to stick it (this includes if the UK gov is doing this too)...

 

[takno]

Don't get me wrong, it could be a step too far in regards to pubs asking for personal info I reckon, I just thought with the mentioning of hotels holding onto data (which I didn't think was new.... let alone I have no idea in reality how long they keep data for), you could also say that places have CCTV in place so surely things could be tracked that way surely? Why not if they wanted ask Google/Apple for back catalogue of whereabouts you we're? They are that quick in finding info about you by stealth but lets put the pubs/cafes in the limelight to gather more info.... If I was them I tell the government to stick it (this includes if the UK gov is doing this too)...

CCTV can't trace unknown people unless they are driving their own car. Google and Apple also regularly resist releasing this kind of information for any purposes including anti terrorism. They also mostly store it in such a way that given a person you can see where they've been, but you can't necessarily find a list of people who were in a specific location.

Pubs and cafes of course shouldn't be forced to keep this kind of list. As with everything else in this pandemic response though, we are taking our pointers from relatively authoritarian regimes which are generally more indifferent to individual rights

 

[kez19]

CCTV can't trace unknown people unless they are driving their own car. Google and Apple also regularly resist releasing this kind of information for any purposes including anti terrorism. They also mostly store it in such a way that given a person you can see where they've been, but you can't necessarily find a list of people who were in a specific location.

Pubs and cafes of course shouldn't be forced to keep this kind of list. As with everything else in this pandemic response though, we are taking our pointers from relatively authoritarian regimes which are generally more indifferent to individual rights

Don't get me wrong but thats what my mind is thinking on the other hand of things ie authoriatarian, yet its strange how the governments in general will say but we don't do these things but they do, its basically another backdoor to look into things.... plus they shouldn't be needing to go down this route anyway, but lets turn it around, if the government wants to know about us well tell the general public what you lot are doing??

 

[Journeyman]

One of the ads on my Instagram feed today was an app for hospitality businesses to record details of their customers.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

One of the ads on my Instagram feed today was an app for hospitality businesses to record details of their customers.

I tend not to go near anything that is advertised on Instagram or Facebook, apps included!

 

[45107]

Thing is, I'm reasonably confident that hotels have adequate data protection in place, because it's their job, and they're used to collecting personal data. Cafes and pubs are probably going to throw something very inadequate together.

I am sure that those that thought up the idea have a very detailed plan on the back of a cigarette packet. They are just looking for something to fill the rest of the space before releasing it.

 

[Journeyman]

I tend not to go near anything that is advertised on Instagram or Facebook, apps included!

Well, quite. Also, if you report every ad on Instagram as offensive, you'll eventually see no ads at all for ages.

 

[kez19]

Did I hear right today that Nicola stated that basically masks must be worn from boarding a bus to shops then back again? Then there is a pic of her sporting a mask? Yes I wonder how often she uses a bus let alone goes to the shop? I don't know if we are bordering OTT moment here.... but even still this should have all been done in the beginning at least between Jan-March not now...

Just to add I do like how she and the media are whipping up the "second wave" effect at the moment (again where was this support during the current crisis ... oh wait you all just sat on you backsides playing chess until it hit ... so this second one we are meant to be prepared... yeah right!)

Just in case anyone wonders .... I had symptoms of Covid couple months back was positive and now negative (my symptoms we're mild tired/coughing mostly and I work in the care sector) apologies if part of statement above goes off a bit but in general I am more annoyed about this hullabaloo but yet there was no support at all at these times! I could say alot more about what I really think in regards to what has happened since end of Feb/March but thats probably should be on another thread but for me it raises more questions for me than answers if I am being honest...

 

[Journeyman]

There seem to be multiple attempts being made to get people to wear masks in shops, and it wouldn't surprise me if it gets made compulsory. However, the one group that consistently doesn't wear masks is the one I'll take my lead from - the staff. With only a couple of exceptions, I've never seen shop staff wearing masks. Presumably they've been supplied, but if they all choose not to wear them despite being exposed to far more people than me, I won't bother either.

 

[kez19]

There seem to be multiple attempts being made to get people to wear masks in shops, and it wouldn't surprise me if it gets made compulsory. However, the one group that consistently doesn't wear masks is the one I'll take my lead from - the staff. With only a couple of exceptions, I've never seen shop staff wearing masks. Presumably they've been supplied, but if they all choose not to wear them despite being exposed to far more people than me, I won't bother either.

This is another bug of mine ... why does the general public need to spend money on masks why can't the governments not fund them? OK I get the point you probably can find the cheapest ones on ebay/amazon to the expensive ones but surely it should be the governments doing this not the public? I guess is they allow companies to make profits out of a crisis I guess

 

[Journeyman]

This is another bug of mine ... why does the general public need to spend money on masks why can't the governments not fund them? OK I get the point you probably can find the cheapest ones on ebay/amazon to the expensive ones but surely it should be the governments doing this not the public? I guess is they allow companies to make profits out of a crisis I guess

Yeah, my view is they should be distributed free if they're compulsory. I've got a scarf I'll use if I have to, but I fully intend to avoid any "no mask, no service" environments as much as possible.

 

[kez19]

Yeah, my view is they should be distributed free if they're compulsory. I've got a scarf I'll use if I have to, but I fully intend to avoid any "no mask, no service" environments as much as possible.

I'm the same got scarfs/snoods (where mask at work), but the thing as well is no business in my opinion should refuse custom or is this where we heading next? Lets finger point people out for not wearing masks? (maybe the public should finger all politicians first than go for each other but of course this won't happen)... I have noticed more recently even at my local Asda people dumping their gloves on the ground (didn't witness people dropping them but car park is a mess), so again we going to have people galivanting others on wearing masks but yet some of these very people do the opposite? Aye OK then....

I just can't wait to see what will happen for gyms next... only few things I am aware of with one company I use is contactless entry via app wash equipment and supposedly booking a slot ... this is going to be chaos!

 

[snookertam]

I honestly don't understand the resistance to wearing masks or face coverings indoors. It's a very basic contribution to overall public health that we can all make for the time being, it may not even be necessary in a few weeks as our additional time in lockdown now sees the number of cases, and the number of deaths coming right down.

The town of Jena in Germany noted a marked reduction in infection rates when it made the wearing of masks mandatory in indoor public places back in March. The stats show that it is a worthwhile measure and whilst it is not mandatory here (other than on public transport), it's the least any of us can do to show consideration for those around us.

As for leaving contact details in bars, I think it will be compliant with GDPR as they will state for what purpose you are providing details and how they will be used. So if providing details solely for public health reasons to be used in the event of Covid outbreak among cientelle at that establishment, then it cannot be used for anything else, and once this requirement becomes no longer necessary it should be destroyed I would think - although when that would be is anyones guess. You may find that unless you provide your personal details, you wont get entry as the establishment wouldn't want to be in a position where they couldn't hand everyone's details over to the test and protect team.

As for the fear about a surveillence society - I agree that someone of the actions of the tech companies are for the watching but I don't believe that simply handing over your name, address, contact details to a bar or restaurant is exactly the height of the Stasi in East Germany.

 

[Journeyman]

The reason I'm questioning masks being compulsory now is that the number of people carrying the virus is so low it'll make no difference, which makes it an unjustifiable civil liberties violation. I'd have understood if it was done three months ago, when the chances of picking it up were several times higher. The government have admitted this is only for "reassurance". I'm very concerned that Sturgeon will make them compulsory in shops as the price for getting rid of the 2m restrictions.

With only one or two exceptions, I've never seen shop staff wearing masks either, so given their level of exposure is much greater than mine, and they haven't all dropped dead over the last three months, that goes to demonstrate this is just theatre.

Every time I've asked a business or an official for expansion on why this is being done, how it will be measured and when it will be lifted, I've had either no answer or been banned from the social media account concerned. That really doesn't fill me with confidence that this is being done properly or accountably.

If I have to explain why I think it's a serious problem having to give my contact details to pubs as a condition of entry, I fear you're very naive. Again, how long will this go on for? If counter terrorism measures at airports are anything to go by, we're talking many years, and I refuse to tolerate that. It also won't be implemented fairly or consistently - some businesses have suggested requiring photo ID, which many people in this country don't have, especially the more vulnerable. That's got unfair discrimination written all over it.

 

[yorkie]

We already have threads to discuss the wearing of masks and other topics.

If anyone has anything to add that is specifically on the topic of When will Scotland return to normal, please report this post and let us know what you'd like to post and we will be happy to consider re-opening this thread