When will Scotland return to some sort of normal?

[Essan]

During the crisis I have been to England twice to stay overnight and will be going again this Weekend.

Under current English law (effective 1st June), it is illegal to stay overnight in a place other than your home (except under certain permitted circumstances)

(previously this was specified in guidance only)

 

[joncombe]

Under current English law, it is illegal to stay overnight in a place other than your home (except under certain permitted cirmcumstances)

I believe he already explained he is a key worker? So quite possibly business travel that is permitted.

 

[Essan]

I believe he already explained he is a key worker? So quite possibly business travel that is permitted.

Yes, that might be a permitted circumstance - however the tone of the comment implied to me that that was not the reason, and it would have been better to clarify if it was the case. Anyway, point stands.

It wasn't previously set out in law, but is now.

 

[Butts]

Yes, that might be a permitted circumstance - however the tone of the comment implied to me that that was not the reason, and it would have been better to clarify if it was the case. Anyway, point stands.

It wasn't previously set out in law, but is now.

The Law is completely impractical, if I were not a key worker the chances of being found out are minimal I would have thought. Perhaps someone has a divergence of opinion on that ?

 

[Essan]

The Law is completely impractical, if I were not a key worker the chances of being found out are minimal I would have thought. Perhaps someone has a divergence of opinion on that ?

I quite agree! Was just pointing out that the amended legislation now specifically makes it illegal (with exceptions)

I have never really bothered to look at exact legislation before. I now wonder whether any MPs have ......

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Law is completely impractical, if I were not a key worker the chances of being found out are minimal I would have thought. Perhaps someone has a divergence of opinion on that ?

I think it's primarily in law so they can do something about random wild camping which is causing big issues with fires and litter and is normally just trespass and therefore not criminal?

 

[Butts]

I think it's primarily in law so they can do something about random wild camping which is causing big issues with fires and litter and is normally just trespass and therefore not criminal?

There is no law of Trespass in Scotland.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is no law of Trespass in Scotland.

There indeed is not, but we had diverged to speak of your trip to England, where there is.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I think it's primarily in law so they can do something about random wild camping which is causing big issues with fires and litter and is normally just trespass and therefore not criminal?

Perhaps wild camping should be permitted but only with compulsory reservations?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps wild camping should be permitted but only with compulsory reservations?

The idea of bookable, chargeable, less formal, wild-feeling "microcampsites" in popular places is no bad one in my book, but that's not "wild camping"

 

[theironroad]

Perhaps wild camping should be permitted but only with compulsory reservations?

Pretty much what the Lomond and Trossachs National Park Authority managed to implement a few years ago with their permit system and preventing previous wild camping in certain areas and forcing people to pay and using certain areas. Once the reservation quota is full, then have to find somewhere else or leave the camping control zone.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Pretty much what the Lomond and Trossachs National Park Authority managed to implement a few years ago with their permit system and preventing previous wild camping in certain areas and forcing people to pay and using certain areas. Once the reservation quota is full, then have to find somewhere else or leave the camping control zone.

To be honest it was as an in joke based on a certain poster's obsession with compulsory reservations on public transport but now you mention it, that sounds like quite a good idea!

 

[Butts]

If normality includes Mcdonald's reopening then you should have seen the scenes in Falkirk Today.

The Retail Park near where I live had blocked off half the Car Park to facilitate a one-way pick up system for takeaway from said premises.

It was a major operation with 5 stewards, cones, tapes etc...

Saddest aspect the queues were humongous

 

[Scotrail12]

If normality includes Mcdonald's reopening then you should have seen the scenes in Falkirk Today.

The Retail Park near where I live had blocked off half the Car Park to facilitate a one-way pick up system for takeaway from said premises.

It was a major operation with 5 stewards, cones, tapes etc...

Saddest aspect the queues were humongous

The queues will peter out after a few days like with everywhere else. FWIW, Sturgeon did change her tune on drive thrus being open, probably since it may slightly reduce the number of people at supermarkets and allows some sort of economy to operate.

 

[fishquinn]

Has anyone actually got the Scottish legislation to hand? I've seen the english one but haven't been able to compare it to the Scottish one yet

 

[GusB]

Has anyone actually got the Scottish legislation to hand? I've seen the english one but haven't been able to compare it to the Scottish one yet

Try this?

The Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Restrictions) (Scotland) Regulations 2020

These Regulations require the closure of businesses selling food or drink for consumption on the premises, and businesses listed in Part 2 of schedule 1, to protect against the risks to public health arising from coronavirus, except in some cases. The closure lasts until a direction is given by...

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[fishquinn]

Try this?

The Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Restrictions) (Scotland) Regulations 2020

These Regulations require the closure of businesses selling food or drink for consumption on the premises, and businesses listed in Part 2 of schedule 1, to protect against the risks to public health arising from coronavirus, except in some cases. The closure lasts until a direction is given by...

www.legislation.gov.uk

Cheers, significantly harder to read than the english ones when you want to find out what it says on movement

 

[LOM]

Try this?

The Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Restrictions) (Scotland) Regulations 2020

These Regulations require the closure of businesses selling food or drink for consumption on the premises, and businesses listed in Part 2 of schedule 1, to protect against the risks to public health arising from coronavirus, except in some cases. The closure lasts until a direction is given by...

www.legislation.gov.uk

Modified by this from the 28th May

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2020/164/contents/made

 

[oldman]

There is no law of Trespass in Scotland.

Oh yes there is!

It is an oft-repeated myth that there are no trespassing laws in Scotland. This is simply not true. Trespass is a civil wrong, called a delict in Scots legal terminology.
...
Where a member of the public accesses land which is not covered by public access rights, they are trespassing. A court can therefore make an order to prevent trespassers from entering the land. Breach of such a court order could become a criminal offence.

Source

 

[al78]

I think it's primarily in law so they can do something about random wild camping which is causing big issues with fires and litter and is normally just trespass and therefore not criminal?

I'd be surprised if wild camping was a significant source of wildfires in the UK. Most wild campers use stoves where the flame is shielded from the landscape, and don't light camp fires. A lot of wildfires (maybe most) are arson.

 

[al78]

Perhaps wild camping should be permitted but only with compulsory reservations?

Impossible.

 

[MattA7]

As someone who lives in a very small rural town in Scotland the 5 mile rule means were no better off than when we had the full lockdown. To make matters worse I don’t drive and public transport is still a major no no

 

[leightonbd]

As someone who lives in a very small rural town in Scotland the 5 mile rule means were no better off than when we had the full lockdown. To make matters worse I don’t drive and public transport is still a major no no

Which is the point, I suppose .... i.e. to keep the disease where it is. Wherever that is. I think five miles is ‘sensible guidance’ to be fair, but if you have no transport then as you say it is academic. Borrow a bike?

It would be easier to understand the whole situation, and the exit strategy, if we had real clarity on the number of actual cases, where they are, etc but apart from those diagnosed by tests, and/or in hospitals and care homes, I have seen very little on ‘hot spots’ or why they have arisen. Inverclyde is supposedly one.

Absent good testing and tracking, policy seems to be a shot in the dark (this applies to all UK of course, though remarks above are specific to Scotland).

 

[Huntergreed]

I must admit I really don't entirely understand Sturgeon's harsher approach to lockdown.

My region has had:

0 in the last week, 5 cases in the last 30 days, including a period of 0 new cases for 15 days
0 hospitalised cases, including 0 in intensive care
0 deaths for 3 weeks
Our local hospital is lying around 60% empty, with 160 empty beds

And yet 'our R number is much higher than England, a much harsher and more restrictive lockdown with severe economic and social consequences is absolutely necessary to not overwhelm the NHS.

I appreciate that it's important to look at the wider picture, but I really am worried about the economic and social consequences of this. In my town countless pubs, towns and independent shops have permanently closed over a virus which doesn't seem to have any presence whatsoever in this region, and I can't think of any rational justification for why this harsher lockdown (with a ridiculously low travel distance limit) is strictly necessary when England, which has various regions with an R number and infection and death rate MUCH larger than this one are much less restricted and can essentially go where they please, send kids back to school, and are opening many more businesses very soon.

 

[scotrail158713]

I must admit I really don't entirely understand Sturgeon's harsher approach to lockdown.

My region has had:

0 in the last week, 5 cases in the last 30 days, including a period of 0 new cases for 15 days
0 hospitalised cases, including 0 in intensive care
0 deaths for 3 weeks
Our local hospital is lying around 60% empty, with 160 empty beds

And yet 'our R number is much higher than England, a much harsher and more restrictive lockdown with severe economic and social consequences is absolutely necessary to not overwhelm the NHS.

I appreciate that it's important to look at the wider picture, but I really am worried about the economic and social consequences of this. In my town countless pubs, towns and independent shops have permanently closed over a virus which doesn't seem to have any presence whatsoever in this region, and I can't think of any rational justification for why this harsher lockdown (with a ridiculously low travel distance limit) is strictly necessary when England, which has various regions with an R number and infection and death rate MUCH larger than this one are much less restricted and can essentially go where they please, send kids back to school, and are opening many more businesses very soon.

That just proves how regional lockdowns have to be the way forward. We can’t continue like this when areas are in the situation you describe.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd be surprised if wild camping was a significant source of wildfires in the UK. Most wild campers use stoves where the flame is shielded from the landscape, and don't light camp fires. A lot of wildfires (maybe most) are arson.

Proper wild campers (pitch late, strike early, leave everything as you found it) no doubt aren't, but with campsites closed a less well-behaved breed has emerged. If you're doing it properly, it doesn't (practically) matter if it's legal or not - if you get caught you were doing it wrong. Though as things stand the "5 miles from home" and "not being out overnight" thing could make it easy to catch (i.e. enforce) simply due to the absence of your car overnight.

 

[Butts]

That just proves how regional lockdowns have to be the way forward. We can’t continue like this when areas are in the situation you describe.

Yes just lock down the whole Central Belt excluding Falkirk.

 

[scotrail158713]

Yes just lock down the whole Central Belt excluding Falkirk.

That’s got nothing to do with where you are, does it?

 

[al78]

Proper wild campers (pitch late, strike early, leave everything as you found it) no doubt aren't, but with campsites closed a less well-behaved breed has emerged. If you're doing it properly, it doesn't (practically) matter if it's legal or not - if you get caught you were doing it wrong. Though as things stand the "5 miles from home" and "not being out overnight" thing could make it easy to catch (i.e. enforce) simply due to the absence of your car overnight.

If that is true that is very unfortunate. I've been having a go with backpacking and wild camping in Scotland over the last three years, and I have plans for several further excursions, but I won't do any until such activities are permitted.

 

[Essan]

I'd be surprised if wild camping was a significant source of wildfires in the UK. Most wild campers use stoves where the flame is shielded from the landscape, and don't light camp fires. A lot of wildfires (maybe most) are arson.

What we consider wild camping, yes. The problems arise with roadside camping (which is technically also wild camping because you are not on a recognised site). People doing that often do have open fires and BBQs which have been known to cause wildfires. There are also some Bear Grylls types who have an open fire in a pine wood when it hasn't rained for 3 weeks ...... Cairngorms in particular suffer from this and some quite big wildfires have been caused as a result.

The Access Legislation in Scotland gives a right of access (and wild camping) subject to abiding by certain responsibilities. And not having an unsafe open fire is one of these.