When will something be done about the Whitby branch ?

[yorksrob]

I have been travelling this line, with it's pathetic joke of a timetable for several years now. Every year the crowding on what few trains there are, gets worse. Full and standing seems to be a regular occurance, yet nothing ever seems to get better for passengers. A full franchise change has offered thin gruel for visitors, in the form of a train at an inconvenient time, that only goes half way up the line.

Northern are apparently due to be getting rid of 153's. At the very least, to ameliorate an unacceptable situation, these should be retained to make the existing services three carriages. In the longer term, a decent timetable needs to be instituted, one that doesn't rely on wild schemes linked to quarrys and the like.

 

[Class 170101]

Wasn't there a requirement to up the passenger service in connection with a potash mining operation in the area?

 

[Harpers Tate]

Could do some half-decent tokenless signalling to replace the century-old gear operated by the crew from location boxes and save time. The Glaisdale-Whitby "section" needs to be properly split in two at Grosmont and the points and signalling at Whitby properly controlled. And the time-wasting use of a single shared platform at Battersby for "passing" needs the second road and face reinstating - or a new (twin track for passing) curve to avoid it altogether. And crossings with sensible speed limits. Oh - and, yes; more services, operated by trains that are fit for purpose - that means, big enough.

 

[cactustwirly]

I have been travelling this line, with it's pathetic joke of a timetable for several years now. Every year the crowding on what few trains there are, gets worse. Full and standing seems to be a regular occurance, yet nothing ever seems to get better for passengers. A full franchise change has offered thin gruel for visitors, in the form of a train at an inconvenient time, that only goes half way up the line.

Northern are apparently due to be getting rid of 153's. At the very least, to ameliorate an unacceptable situation, these should be retained to make the existing services three carriages. In the longer term, a decent timetable needs to be instituted, one that doesn't rely on wild schemes linked to quarrys and the like.

A bit of a reality check, I suspect the single track infrastructure prohibits a better timetable, and it would probably be uneconomical to upgrade it.

How busy is the line year round?

 

[DarloRich]

A bit of a reality check, I suspect the single track infrastructure prohibits a better timetable, and it would probably be uneconomical to upgrade it.

How busy is the line year round?

Is the correct answer! ( and you have the nymr services to accomodate )

Summer time can be busy but not in rhe winter

 

[yorksrob]

I

A bit of a reality check, I suspect the single track infrastructure prohibits a better timetable, and it would probably be uneconomical to upgrade it.

How busy is the line year round?

Is the correct answer! ( and you have the nymr services to accomodate )

Summer time can be busy but not in rhe winter

Oh please, the route carries a decent year round patronage - it's not some holiday line that closes down in winter.

#DarloRich, you make use of a branchline with non-mainline passenger numbers (Bedford-Bletchley). Do you think that this line should suffice with five trains a day each way, or have you just 'gone native' down there ?

 

[cactustwirly]

I




Oh please, the route carries a decent year round patronage - it's not some holiday line that closes down in winter.

#DarloRich, you make use of a branchline with non-mainline passenger numbers (Bedford-Bletchley). Do you think that this line should suffice with five trains a day each way, or have you just 'gone native' down there ?

Apples and Pears tbh. How much subsidy does the Marston Vale line need, compared to the Whitby line?

 

[yorksrob]

Apples and Pears tbh. How much subsidy does the Marston Vale line need, compared to the Whitby line?

If you can't provide the figures, don't use them in your argument.

And surely by that argument (if it be an argument) there would be no justification in providing suburban services around Leeds or Manchester, as they generate less revenue than London services. So not 'apples and oranges' at all.

 

[Ploughman]

THe NYMR currently only operate Grosmont - Whitby as the timings preclude any Battersby workings on a regular basis.
If they do work to Battersby then the train must be top and tailed as the turn round time is 5 minutes to clear the track for the next Northern service.

 

[yorksrob]

There are two passing places on the mainline at Grosmont and Battersby on the main line. There is also the additional platform at Whitby. It cannot, surely, be impossible to operate additional main line services on that branch.

 

[Robertj21a]

Is the correct answer! ( and you have the nymr services to accomodate )

Summer time can be busy but not in rhe winter

It was quiet on the couple of occasions I used it, on one occasion just mostly school kids going home.

When exactly is it really busy ?

 

[yorksrob]

It was quiet on the couple of occasions I used it, on one occasion just mostly school kids going home.

When exactly is it really busy ?

Every weekend for starters. And this is with a paltry service which most people with an alternative wouldn't bother with.

I have caught the weekday services with schoolchildren, and they have been extremely busy as well (given that schoolchildren are paying passengers like the rest of us).

 

[jayah]

Could do some half-decent tokenless signalling to replace the century-old gear operated by the crew from location boxes and save time. The Glaisdale-Whitby "section" needs to be properly split in two at Grosmont and the points and signalling at Whitby properly controlled. And the time-wasting use of a single shared platform at Battersby for "passing" needs the second road and face reinstating - or a new (twin track for passing) curve to avoid it altogether. And crossings with sensible speed limits. Oh - and, yes; more services, operated by trains that are fit for purpose - that means, big enough.

Whitby footfall is about 140k per annum where the very similarly populated Aberystwyth is 340k.

The annual footfall is c. 1,500 per annum at Battersbry - it needs bypassing. Whitby needs a decent, competitive service to Middlesborough which in turn needs the same to Newcastle. The current arrangement in both cases are completely unfit for purpose, as is the case in much of the North.

In the case of the former, the dilapidated infrastructure needs to be torn down and completely renewed with an objective of no more than 50-60mins for the 35 or so rail miles on the current route (90mins today), served every 1-2hr on a clockface pattern. A number of very low footfall stations en route need to be canned and Whitby trains should not be the local service for stations near Middlesborough.

Would cost a small fortune but that is what is needed to bring it out of the 19th century.

 

[Polarbear]

Isn't Northern introducing an additional service from the December timetable change?

 

[yorksrob]

Whitby footfall is about 140k per annum where the very similarly populated Aberystwyth is 340k.

The annual footfall is c. 1,500 per annum at Battersbry - it needs bypassing. Whitby needs a decent, competitive service to Middlesborough which in turn needs the same to Newcastle. The current arrangement in both cases are completely unfit for purpose, as is the case in much of the North.

In the case of the former, the dilapidated infrastructure needs to be torn down and completely renewed with an objective of no more than 50-60mins for the 35 or so rail miles on the current route (90mins today), served every 1-2hr on a clockface pattern. A number of very low footfall stations en route need to be canned and Whitby trains should not be the local service for stations near Middlesborough.

Would cost a small fortune but that is what is needed to bring it out of the 19th century.

A lot of this is pie in the sky. Just either put on a decent frequency, or put enough carriages on the trains we have. That would be a good enough start.

Waiting for high cost capital expenditure is a recipe for nothing ever happenning.

 

[jayah]

A lot of this is pie in the sky. Just either put on a decent frequency, or put enough carriages on the trains we have. That would be a good enough start.

Waiting for high cost capital expenditure is a recipe for nothing ever happenning.

Welcome to the novel concept (in the UK) of total route modernisation. Putting a decent frequency on a 35 mile / 90mins trip is frankly turd polishing.

 

[yorksrob]

Welcome to the novel concept (in the UK) of total route modernisation. Putting a decent frequency on a 35 mile / 90mins trip is frankly turd polishing.

If it was that much of a turd, the trains wouldn't be full and standing. Something I have seen on many, many occasions.

I'm all for a route modernisation, but I'm not prepared to wait for someone to pay for a Battersby avoiding line to get an improvement.

 

[Mike99]

I'm doing Whitby to Middlesbrough and return next Wednesday and really looking forward to it, my first trip over the line

 

[Robertj21a]

Every weekend for starters. And this is with a paltry service which most people with an alternative wouldn't bother with.

I have caught the weekday services with schoolchildren, and they have been extremely busy as well (given that schoolchildren are paying passengers like the rest of us).

I guess the Arriva bus X93 is far more popular with many people. I think it runs every 30 mins (?) and only takes just over an hour to Middlesbrough.

 

[Eric]

I'm doing Whitby to Middlesbrough and return next Wednesday and really looking forward to it, my first trip over the line

I love doing this line but as others have said it can be unpleasant when forced to stand the majority of the way on a pacer in the summer weekends.

 

[a_c_skinner]

The Esk Valley route wouldn't be high up on my list for big expenditure so the obvious curve at Battersby simply won't happen. Longer trains does seem a practical proposition, though some platforms would need SDO or a guard opening a single door (Kildale and Commondale I think, not heavily patronised). Passing should be practical without huge works at Battersby and I think easily at Glaisdale but not Grosmont. I've no idea where the Potash Cash is going.

 

[yorksrob]

I guess the Arriva bus X93 is far more popular with many people. I think it runs every 30 mins (?) and only takes just over an hour to Middlesbrough.

Well, is it ?

Are people forced to use it, because it is very long for a bus service.

I've used it a couple of times due to my connection not being met, and felt a bit queasy (someone else definitely vommed on one occasion, because I could smell it).
Having used the bus option a couple of times, I suspect that its popularity is unduly flattered by the poor rail service.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I have been travelling this line, with it's pathetic joke of a timetable for several years now. Every year the crowding on what few trains there are, gets worse. Full and standing seems to be a regular occurance, yet nothing ever seems to get better for passengers. A full franchise change has offered thin gruel for visitors, in the form of a train at an inconvenient time, that only goes half way up the line.

Northern are apparently due to be getting rid of 153's. At the very least, to ameliorate an unacceptable situation, these should be retained to make the existing services three carriages. In the longer term, a decent timetable needs to be instituted, one that doesn't rely on wild schemes linked to quarrys and the like.

What were you on today? Sounds like the 10.20 ex Boro, which is the one that is likely to get a surge if it's decent weather, I assume.
As others have said, don't Northern have plans to improve the service, just they don't have the stock, and the lunchtime train to Danby was the best they could come up with.

 

[Darandio]

Are people forced to use it, because it is very long for a bus service.

I've used it a couple of times due to my connection not being met, and felt a bit queasy (someone else definitely vommed on one occasion, because I could smell it).

Yet the longer dawdling train service (often a Pacer) travelling over some very poor track (in many places) is the epitomy of comfort! Come on now, try to keep it serious.

 

[yorksrob]

What were you on today? Sounds like the 10.20 ex Boro, which is the one that is likely to get a surge if it's decent weather, I assume.
As others have said, don't Northern have plans to improve the service, just they don't have the stock, and the lunchtime train to Danby was the best they could come up with.

That is indeed popular, as it has been every year for the past ten. Northern are planning to get rid of 153's. Why aren't they keeping them to strengthen services such as this.

 

[yorksrob]

Yet the longer dawdling train service (often a Pacer) travelling over some very poor track (in many places) is the epitomy of comfort! Come on now, try to keep it serious.

Well, if you knew what you were talking about, you would know that this line is very rarely a pacer.

 

[Darandio]

Well, if you knew what you were talking about, you would know that this line is very rarely a pacer.

I must be terribly unlucky then. Four journeys on the line this year, Class 142 4 times.

 

[70014IronDuke]

That is indeed popular, as it has been every year for the past ten. Northern are planning to get rid of 153's. Why aren't they keeping them to strengthen services such as this.

So, what was it today? A single 153 or ?

The line either needs upgrading to 60 mph or a new loop between Glaisdale and Battersby to really improve services. Where's the money going to come from for that is another question.

 

[yorksrob]

I must be terribly unlucky then. Four journeys on the line this year, Class 142 4 times.

It's 156, because they can't stand the school children standing up all the way.

 

[yorksrob]

So, what was it today? A single 153 or ?

The line either needs upgrading to 60 mph or a new loop between Glaisdale and Battersby to really improve services. Where's the money going to come from for that is another question.

A 156 as it usually is.