When will TFL ditch the Tube Map

AMR

On Moderation
Joined
17 Jan 2021
Messages
62
Location
Stockport
Due to the increased popularity and usage of the mobile phone, the tube map has become obsolete in a way, and this topic was briefly mentioned on Geoff Marshalls 'Tube Map Chat'. But how long would it actually be till it goes. Which would be a very sad day indeed.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

A Challenge

Established Member
Joined
24 Sep 2016
Messages
2,535
That won't ever happen.
I agree, I don't think it will happen because it is too much of a flagship for TfL and good for getting tourists to use TfL services when in London, not NR services, hence TfL only just putting Thameslink on the Tube Map.
 

pdeaves

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
3,870
Location
Gateway to the South West
The network and the way it's used needs some way of showing users its 'shape' and allowing them to determine if they can get to X (or whether it is even worth trying to get to X). The map (diagram) does that perfectly well. Granted, there are some places where a walk on the surface is better than getting the Underground between places but that is a small limitation on a much greater benefit.
 
Last edited:

philthetube

Established Member
Joined
5 Jan 2016
Messages
2,656
I agree it won't happen, it would only be possible if all passengers had internet acess while on trains.
 

packermac

Member
Joined
16 Sep 2019
Messages
485
Location
Swanage
You need a smart phone and some of us have no intention of getting one. So how would TFL propose to deal with us?
 

matt_world2004

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2014
Messages
3,206
Tourists may not nessescarily have data for their mobile to download and display a tube map.

I think it will evolve though .I imagine at some point in the future you will be able to go to a ticket machine, select the lines that you need and for a small charge it will print you a custom map or a journey planner journey.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
11,760
Tourists may not nessescarily have data for their mobile to download and display a tube map.

I think it will evolve though .I imagine at some point in the future you will be able to go to a ticket machine, select the lines that you need and for a small charge it will print you a custom map or a journey planner journey.

Station wi-fi is also a thing in this here 21st century.

We now live in the future.
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
16,520
Location
Yorkshire, Yorkshire, Yorkshire
It'll still be up on posters at stations and on the trains themselves - it's just a question of how many they print (to give away free) - partly due to the environmental cost of printing so many of them, partly due falling demand (now that a chunk of people rely on phones etc), partly due to regular changes meaning they become out of date fairly quickly (which renders large numbers of leaflets out of date and needing pulped).

There's also the question of how simple to keep it - does it need the "bells and whistles" of all of the fringe services, or should they focus more on the "zone one" kind of routes where there are more tourists unfamiliar with things - people in zones four/five/six are likely to be pretty familiar with their underground services - maybe you restrict the paper versions to just showing the central zone, which would allow them to be at a better scale (rather than squinting to read it because the map needs to accommodate all of the far flung stations)
 

Clayton

On Moderation
Joined
15 Apr 2018
Messages
215
Why would that happen? A big clear map is a lot better than a small one on your phone, even if you do have data and the ability to find and load it underground. Large scale maps give a much better idea of how places relate to each other.
 

unlevel42

Member
Joined
5 May 2011
Messages
394
I would like to congratulate TfL in their successful campaign to prevent people from standing in the way of others whilst on their phone. Studies have revealed that many those on their phone are trying to find their way are trying to find out how to make their connection work, get the app updated, sign in and look at advertising.
Now they are encouraged to move out of the way and towards the sides where they will find large scale, easily readable infographics (called maps).
These infographics (called maps) have been found to be particularly popular by infrequent travellers to their capital, those who have things to carry and others to care for.
There are a range of infographic, including route, connections and local maps which by moving a few steps can be viewed practically simultaneously.
Very popular amongst regulars who find less people in their way- particularly those obsessed with getting their latest toy to work.

Advertisers are complaining to TfL about the loss of advertising space to these infographics called maps.
 

theironroad

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
3,632
Location
London
Station wi-fi is also a thing in this here 21st century.

We now live in the future.

Is all tube station wi to free of charge?

Do all deep level platforms have WiFi?

I tend to find it's easier to live in the present.
 

theironroad

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
3,632
Location
London
Due to the increased popularity and usage of the mobile phone, the tube map has become obsolete in a way, and this topic was briefly mentioned on Geoff Marshalls 'Tube Map Chat'. But how long would it actually be till it goes. Which would be a very sad day indeed.

I think the map will continue for a long time yet, although in far less printed copies.

If the alternative is pure journey planners, then I think the two can co-exist, though it's fair to say the use of traditional rail timetables seems to have been diminished and journey planners taken over.
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
3,437
Location
Northern England
Why would that happen? A big clear map is a lot better than a small one on your phone, even if you do have data and the ability to find and load it underground. Large scale maps give a much better idea of how places relate to each other.
At the moment we don't have a big clear map, we have a hopelessly tiny, and therefore unclear, map.
 

matt_world2004

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2014
Messages
3,206
The tfl website suggests that you have to buy an WiFi access pass if you don't have a plan with the major media operators like virgin, o2 etc
Most UK operators offer free access to station WiFi through their packages. Foreign operators don't. Even when roaming on a UK operators network
 

Thewanderer

Member
Joined
15 Nov 2007
Messages
1,111
Location
Ireland
Time to ditch the tube map and fully embrace the London Connections Map. The Tube map in it's current format is now simply too cluttered with LO and now TL.
 

birchesgreen

Established Member
Joined
16 Jun 2020
Messages
1,334
Location
Birmingham
The tube map is too iconic to be discarded, but it does need to be given a rethought and designed as the map has been a complete mess for years now.
 

pdeaves

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
3,870
Location
Gateway to the South West
The tube map is too iconic to be discarded, but it does need to be given a rethought and designed as the map has been a complete mess for years now.
I agree there. They try to provide too much information in one place such that meaning is lost. That's not to say don't give the extra information; perhaps it's better in a different form or a different place.
 

Fawkes Cat

Member
Joined
8 May 2017
Messages
1,094
I agree there. They try to provide too much information in one place such that meaning is lost. That's not to say don't give the extra information; perhaps it's better in a different form or a different place.
Which is surely what we already have in the Underground/London Connections divide?

Maybe the solution is to change the split between the two maps, so that the 'Underground' map doesn't go all the way out to the suburbs (so a smaller area) but does include all railways in the centre (so more detail), while the London Connections map is the only place to find out about (e.g.) Metropolitan Line trains at Chesham. The big drawback that I can see from this from a user's point of view is that Heathrow might well end up only on the Connections map - and that's a location of interest to a lot of non-Londoners, with a layout that's hardly intuitive. And if the current Underground map really does drive trade towards LUL services, then I can't see them being keen on paying for a reduced and diluted version.
 

pdeaves

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
3,870
Location
Gateway to the South West
Which is surely what we already have in the Underground/London Connections divide?
To an extent, yes. What I had in mind was the step-free access information. Good to provide somehow/somewhere but so much clutter that it creates a great mental strain trying to read it. The 'interchange connection' detail is lost under the symbols. I think there should be different diagrams (or other methods of expressing information) for different uses rather than trying to get everything on one unsuitable diagram. Underground/London Connections is just one step of many to make things simple/clear/easy to use at a glance.
 

Peter C

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2018
Messages
3,164
Location
England
This kind of discussion has been going on for a while now and I'm not sure if I've ever seen a conclusion! :)
Personally, I wouldn't want to see the Tube Map just disappear. It's become a symbol of the Tube and, to a certain extent, London as a whole. One of, if not the main issue, often cited as a reason for getting rid of it is the fact that it is incredibly full in certain areas - most notably, the top-right of the map (around Stratford IIRC). Maybe a solution (or a step towards a solution) would be to make the map physically bigger and then change the scaling and fiddle around with the map a bit to make cluttered areas less so? I know barely anything about how it would work, so please do let me know if this would be a farce.

-Peter
 

Cambus731

Member
Joined
19 Jul 2013
Messages
835
The pocket version should be decluttered. . The Overground and Tramlink should be removed from it.
And Crossrail should be removed until it opens. And when it does, it should only be shown between Stratford and Ealing Broadway. And Thameslink only really should to be shown between Kentish Town and London Bridge/The Elephant.
 
Last edited:

leytongabriel

Member
Joined
27 Jan 2013
Messages
248
We'll need tube maps at least as long as there are Eastbound, Westbound etc signs in the stations. Even if you know the general direction it may not be obvious (e.g. north-south Piccadilly line in North London).
 

higthomas

Member
Joined
27 Nov 2012
Messages
1,000
Given they've got rid of almost all other information that isn't a journey planner (bus quarter maps, bus spider maps, bus timetables, train timetables, cycle maps, ...) I wouldn't be too surprised
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
3,437
Location
Northern England
If they are just going to expect everyone to use the journey planner, they'll have to make the journey planner actually work properly first...
 

Nicks

Member
Joined
17 Jun 2012
Messages
69
Whilst working for TfL I've spent many hours (a day) riding all over the tube network, in recent years I rarely see people looking at the paper tube map, what they do use are the line maps inside the cars and the platform/ticket hall maps. Most of the time people are looking at their devices. I now use the pdf map on my phone, it's easy to enlarge, I rarely bother with journey planners. I used to get asked for directions, mainly by tourists, quite a lot but this has dropped off dramatically, I think people would rather get the information from their devices than talk to a live person!
 

Top