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At_traction

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The curve just before Bruennchen, where you cut the corner, drop right down, then back up and a blind right-hander over a crest.
Took some time to pinpoint, but I assume it was the right-hander between Wippermann and Eschbach. A pure pleasure of a tight cresting curve with Grand Prix Legends... :lol: I expected it to have been Brünnchen, judging by the vantage point and especially with its share of mishaps, but...

The guy had been driving for years, this was his first ever crash in a car and it was on the Nordschleife, so fair play :D
What happens at the Ring, stays at the Ring, so it doesn't count in the outside world. ;)
 
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Death

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Sat at the control desk of 370666...
To answer the OP; Mine is a photo of myself taken sat at the controls of 370004 sometime around April 2007CE or thereabouts. If she'd been in a railworthy and workable state that day, I would've covered the distance between Crewe and Euston in little over fifteen minutes! <D

Mine's a placard somewhere in the rural(ish) Shildon, attached to possibly the only train (or a traction unit of one) to have ever featured as a cut-away drawing in the Flight International mag.
Just out of curiosity, they are still keeping her fit and in full working order I hope? :?:

Mine is a picture of the symbol identifying most popular railway in Britain, and one of the world's most recognised brands. Taken by me, outside Canary Wharf station, a few days before Shoreditch station closed. You can see One Canada Square in the background.
Another bit of LUL trivia for ye: Left of the Roundel (Just out of shot) is 30 The South Colonnade; A large-ish office block that used to be wholly inhabited by Infraco JNP and mainly used for administration and on-paper engineering and drafting. :)
 

At_traction

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Just out of curiosity, they are still keeping her fit and in full working order I hope? :?:
Superficially not bad-looking at all, including, IIRC, the trailers in similar-ish condition.

The APT-P instrumentation car (or something) behind the -E, however, is sadly rusty-looking and yet unrefurbished.
 

Death

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Superficially not bad-looking at all, including, IIRC, the trailers in similar-ish condition.
The APT-P instrumentation car (or something) behind the -E, however, is sadly rusty-looking and yet unrefurbished.
Well, at least it sounds like she's being kept in better nick than the "P" down the road at Crewe! (And "E"s stored under cover as well AFAIK, which should help keep her safe. :))

Personally though - As ye all no doubt know - I'd like to see both of these trains kept in a fully maintained and workable state both for railtour and "pot-luck" (For us HSR fans) mainline services.
I seem to recall that "E" managed to take Market Harborough at around 44mph during her STP->DBY test run (I passed the same spot on a 222 six weeks ago, and we got throttled down to about 30mph on the same section. :() back in the early 80's, and I reckon she'd still be perfectly fine doing the same bit at about 60-75mph today. :)

Build a new fleet of "E"s (Or even better; A fleet of "P"s with the gensets used to run the power cars away from the knitting) and put them on EMT runs out of St. Pancras, and the journey time between there and Derby could easily be cut down to under 45 minutes! 8-)
Indeed, it does makes ye wonder why we went over to using those Bombardier things in the first place...Given that both the APT-E and APT-P are far superior trains (Both on paper and in practice) AND the latter two are a lot cheaper than the former, as well! :?:
 

sprinterguy

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Indeed, it does makes ye wonder why we went over to using those Bombardier things in the first place...Given that both the APT-E and APT-P are far superior trains (Both on paper and in practice) AND the latter two are a lot cheaper than the former, as well! :?:
In gas turbine form, I am seriously doubtful that an APT-E would work out cheaper than a Voyager, in build costs or operating costs. How I wish there'd been a fleet of APT-S trains on the WCML since 1985 though. The tilting sections of the WCML are fun enough at 125mph. It would have been incredible at 155mph.

The APT-P instrumentation car (or something) behind the -E, however, is sadly rusty-looking and yet unrefurbished.
I think that’s more likely to be APT-P Power car 49006, the only carriage of an APT-P that isn’t at Crewe, and is currently looking considerably the worse for wear, prior to a restoration attempt being started on it. AFAIK, the APT-E has been formed back up to four carriages (split into two halves at Shildon) since its’ cosmetic restoration in 2003/4, having spent a while with Instrumentation car TC2 being better looked after inside the NRM whilst the remainder of the train became increasingly dilapidated out in the yard.

I wonder what the possibility of firing up the APT-E again would be? It would be interesting to know if it’s restoration a few years back was just cosmetic or stretched to the complex mechanical aspects as well. I suspect it may only have been cosmetic, in which case the internals are probably truly goosed by now.
 

At_traction

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The tilting sections of the WCML are fun enough at 125mph. It would have been incredible at 155mph.
But only if the signalling distances issues had been solved for such speeds. Ie. effectively in-cab signalling with related trackside improvements. Wonder why that never materialised? ;) (Note the smiley.)


I think that’s more likely to be APT-P Power car 49006, the only carriage of an APT-P that isn’t at Crewe, and is currently looking considerably the worse for wear, prior to a restoration attempt being started on it.
OK, defence has a word. *wig on* Silence in the court. :o
I wrote my assessment at work (totally legitimate Internet use ;)) and now poring over my photos from last summer's visit, it indeed is the power car with collection equipment on the roof.

AFAIK, the APT-E has been formed back up to four carriages (split into two halves at Shildon) since its’ cosmetic restoration in 2003/4, having spent a while with Instrumentation car TC2 being better looked after inside the NRM whilst the remainder of the train became increasingly dilapidated out in the yard.
Logical. :p
But the whole train looked rather good at least superficially - for example, a coat of blue paint over all of the articulated bogies (including lines and pipes) does a lot of good in that sense. Don't know if I wanted to hurtle down the line at 100-ish mph with such maintenance is another issue altogether...

I wonder what the possibility of firing up the APT-E again would be? It would be interesting to know if it’s restoration a few years back was just cosmetic or stretched to the complex mechanical aspects as well. I suspect it may only have been cosmetic, in which case the internals are probably truly goosed by now.
I got such an expression. Mechanical restoration to working order might be a somewhat protracted and expensive undertaking. The HSTs with their Vals and railstock bought in a working order are much easier to set up running. Or perhaps there's a cache of Leyland gas turbine spare parts somewhere. And I doubt that anyone would dare to activate its 1960s-vintage tilting mechanism for running trials. See my avatar... :p

PS. I've always thought that the APT-E's nose looks like a baboon... Perhaps something Freudian there.
 

Death

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In gas turbine form, I am seriously doubtful that an APT-E would work out cheaper than a Voyager, in build costs or operating costs. How I wish there'd been a fleet of APT-S trains on the WCML since 1985 though. The tilting sections of the WCML are fun enough at 125mph. It would have been incredible at 155mph.
I second that...The APT-S would've been a superior contender to the Pendolino (Lighter, faster, cheaper, more responsive...) had it been available when Richard Branson took a wander down to his local train dealership! <D

As for the cost of an APT-E versus a Voyager: I believe BR had thrown about £2 million into the APT project by the time "E" had been built, and remember, that included building the facilities at Old Dalby as well as the train itself. I don't have a Bombardier dealership guide to hand here...But even a 220 (Let alone a 222) costs more than that delivered, doesn't it? :?:

I think that’s more likely to be APT-P Power car 49006, the only carriage of an APT-P that isn’t at Crewe, and is currently looking considerably the worse for wear, prior to a restoration attempt being started on it.
I wrote my assessment at work (totally legitimate Internet use ;)) and now poring over my photos from last summer's visit, it indeed is the power car with collection equipment on the roof.
Is it only me that's noticed that - Whilst the APT-E seems to be being taken care of now - Everyone seems to have forgotten about the APT-P which has seemingly been left to rust and blister in her DC'd siding at Crewe? :cry:

I know that there were originally three APT-P units built (Well in truth, it was six half-sets. I think that's why the Eurostar was given the APTs neighbouring TOPS class) compared to the APT-E's one - But with BR scrapping 370001-370003 and 370005, the "P" is still just as much an endangered species as the "E" now...At least until the West Coast superspeed build gets underway! </dream> :D;)<D

But only if the signalling distances issues had been solved for such speeds. Ie. effectively in-cab signalling with related trackside improvements. Wonder why that never materialised? ;)
Granted, BR's Hydrokinetic (HK) braking system never worked out to be as effective as planned, which was (As far as I can ascertain) the sole flaw of the APT. If the APT-S were to be built today, those HK brakes would be substituted for electromagnetic regenerative/inductive braking systems (Which perform better on paper than HKs, and I think might be lighter) and together with the APTs very low weight, those brakes could probably stop the train from as much as 166mph in the standard allocated braking distance for a pneumatic system at 100mph...So no extra signal work required, and no real in-cab signalling bar maybe an in-cab repeater (Retrofitted onto the back of C-APT?) with a cluster of LEDs showing the current aspect of the next signal to be passed! 8-)

PS. I've always thought that the APT-E's nose looks like a baboon...
What I find quite amusing and ironic - Given the eventual (Tragic) history of the poor APT - Is that if ye look up any photos of "Futuristic" trains as visualised during the late 70's and early 80's, the APT-E features in a good 90-odd percent of them! I wonder how BR explained the sudden disappearance of this new, high-tech, futuristic train that everyone was looking forward to bashing? ;)

Given that BR tried as best as possible to sweep that whole APT project under the carpet after the disastrous press run (Fault of the journalists, mind...The train itself performed perfectly) even going so far as to rename the APT-U as the Intercity 225, it's at least refreshing to see that I'm not the only person out there who really wants to see this mile-Slaughtering behemoth take to the rails once more! <D
And thinking of the APT-U again for a moment: Does anyone have a clue why EC still havn't gotton around to fitting the tilting system on yet? I know the ECML is a little less kinky than the West Coast, but it'd still be a worthwhile retrofit for handling the bendy bits (Gjorvik, especially) at speed... :?:
 

At_traction

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I second that...The APT-S would've been a superior contender to the Pendolino (Lighter, faster, cheaper, more responsive...) had it been available when Richard Branson took a wander down to his local train dealership! <D
Although the train indeed was (AFAIK) successfully run in passenger use for several years, by the time Virgin Trains started to look for high-speed units for the WCML it had been off the development cycle (it was still very much a prototype, if a protracted one) for so long that he IMO correctly looked for those who had continued the concept's development. Even though he came to subsequent grief for some time, the teething problems were still a smaller risk than financing APT's re-development and updating out of his own pocket. I doubt that tooling or even all blueprints were available anymore, for example.

As for the cost of an APT-E versus a Voyager: I believe BR had thrown about £2 million into the APT project by the time "E" had been built, and remember, that included building the facilities at Old Dalby as well as the train itself. I don't have a Bombardier dealership guide to hand here...But even a 220 (Let alone a 222) costs more than that delivered, doesn't it? :?:
Can't comment on the figures above per se, but £2 million in 1968 was in 2008:
£26m using the retail price index
£50.6m using average earnings

(http://www.measuringworth.com/ppoweruk/) ;)

Is it only me that's noticed that - Whilst the APT-E seems to be being taken care of now - Everyone seems to have forgotten about the APT-P which has seemingly been left to rust and blister in her DC'd siding at Crewe? :cry:
That's indeed sad, but on the other hand it serves as a colourful remainder outside a passing train's window of the time whe the UK was the world leader in (tilting) high-speed rail development. With the Japanese and Frenchies having the throne on purpose-built HS infrastructure.

Granted, BR's Hydrokinetic (HK) braking system never worked out to be as effective as planned
[...]
together with the APTs very low weight, those brakes could probably stop the train from as much as 166mph in the standard allocated braking distance for a pneumatic system at 100mph...
So I wonder why practically all (overseas) high-speed lines use in-cab signalling instead of relying on lineside signals... ;) Perhaps has something to do with true safety and a larger margin than that afforded merely by a braking system.

I'm not fluent on the regulations for signal placement, but I just assume that the 125 mph limit corresponds to both the reaction times of the driver (especially in bad weather) and the increased requirement for deceleration. At the trains' speed difference of 30 mph, the train travels ~15 m just during the approx. second it takes to fully react to the signal, then with similar braking characteristics it takes over half as much distance to stop a train from 155 mph as from 125 mph. So the extra braking power would indeed be called for.

So no extra signal work required, and no real in-cab signalling bar maybe an in-cab repeater (Retrofitted onto the back of C-APT?) with a cluster of LEDs showing the current aspect of the next signal to be passed! 8-)
Which is of course in effect in-cab signalling ;) - even though not the envisaged moving-block one, but nevertheless.

What I find quite amusing and ironic - Given the eventual (Tragic) history of the poor APT - Is that if ye look up any photos of "Futuristic" trains as visualised during the late 70's and early 80's, the APT-E features in a good 90-odd percent of them! I wonder how BR explained the sudden disappearance of this new, high-tech, futuristic train that everyone was looking forward to bashing? ;)
Yeah, but we gained the screaming and timeless beauty of the HST. :wub:

Given that BR tried as best as possible to sweep that whole APT project under the carpet after the disastrous press run (Fault of the journalists, mind...The train itself performed perfectly) even going so far as to rename the APT-U as the Intercity 225
There was fault with the tilting system at least in one coach during the inaugural run, but I nevertheless similarly claim the liberal open bar policy for augmenting the motion (or motion-less) sickness caused by the fully compensating tilting system. The introduction was a bridge too far, too soon. But undoubtedly Maggie wanted to see results after a decade of money-wasting in "development"... As for the naming, partly the reason may have been to bury the memory of the APT, but on the other hand, the naming corresponded with the naming of the HST services since 1976.

it's at least refreshing to see that I'm not the only person out there who really wants to see this mile-Slaughtering behemoth take to the rails once more! <D
Hmm, I said that I'd dare not sit on a running APT-E... :p But, by all means, at least get the APT-P from its current rusting conditions and to well-deserved proper retirement.

And thinking of the APT-U again for a moment: Does anyone have a clue why EC still havn't gotton around to fitting the tilting system on yet? I know the ECML is a little less kinky than the West Coast, but it'd still be a worthwhile retrofit for handling the bendy bits (Gjorvik, especially) at speed... :?:
Too late for that and no need really at the ECML IMO. The other HS projects are more relevant recipients of that funding.
 

Ivo

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West Somerset Steam gala :D
Woof :D

I'm revitalising this thread to publicise my new avatar. It was taken on August 29th last year, a Sunday, close to The Globe pub in Newton St Loe just outside Bath. Now, under normal circumstances the former 418 route to my University, now renumbered SPA1 to give it a separate identity to the 18 to the larger University, uses 55-reg Volvo B7LA artics, but on this occasion was being operated through NSL village due to the closure of the main driveway (a marginal route even in a minibus). So, upon seeing this (whilst on holiday touring the country!), I quite literally sprinted over to the bus stop to take this shot. Never again can Worst Group claim that Optare Solos do not serve Bath Spa University (I also saw one in January last year but had no camera at the time)!

For the record, there was another vehicle in front (a Dennis Lance I think), so I couldn't get a better angle.
 

SS4

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Ah yes.

Mine is a hybrid between Schrödinger's Cat (the famous thought experiment) and the LOLcat meme.
 

RPM

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Mine is 165032 waiting to depart with the 2H74 23.00 Wembley Stadium - London Marylebone service on 24th October 2008. I had time to kill and I thought it might make a nice photo. I departed a few minutes later with precisely zero passengers on board.
 

Clip

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ha ha ha good work!!:lol:

such an interesting thing though.. All built by himself and his cronies years ago bit look out at the top double deck tracks and a rainforest enclosure..

If you ever go to NZ you have to go there
 

flymo

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I was in NZ in 2007, but the only place near Coromandel I went to was Thames. I never even knew the railway was there otherwise I would have paid them a visit. Ah well, just another reason to head back down..:D
 

Clip

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Yeah you gotta do it.. We had one of them lonely planet books with us and was in there but if your ever back down there do it.

He even built the carriages himself too.. Reversing out to switch tracks and everything.. madness
 

LE Greys

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One of my own. Platform 4 at York in August 2004, 4472 working a railtour to Scarborough. Pity about the blinkers, but it's my only decent shot of a Gresley-designed engine I happen to have on my computer. ("L.E. Greys" is an anagram of "Gresley")
 

Wyvern

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I believe BR had thrown about £2 million into the APT project by the time "E" had been built, and remember, that included building the facilities at Old Dalby as well as the train itself.
The figure we heard at thetime (probably calculated from the first profiled wheel rig) was £8 million - a lot of it from the EU.

However that was more than recouped by patent royalties and operational savings. I dont think it is too much to claim that what was discovered in Derby in that period has formed the basis of railway engineering worldwide ever since.

Meanwhile my avatar is Ellie of the Duffield Bank Railway - pioneer of the fifteen inch gauge.
 
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transportphoto

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My current one is the logo on the front of what I believe is Coca-Cola's head quarter's for UK operations in Hammersmith London taken by me through the window of a 035 National Express coach heading into London Victoria earlier this month.
 

50Fan91

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50017 at Reading - a very nice picture that I found on Google Search!!

Just so happens to be the loco that I'm currently working on at the Plym Valley Railway, so I thought that it was rather appropriate - especially as the livery in the picture is what Royal Oak is soon to be painted into!
 
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