Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations

[johncrossley]

Do you get a criminal record if you get fined for not quarantining?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Again they are making it up as they go along as many countries have comparable case rates to ours and vaccination levels that are closing us down quite rapidly. The delta variant is more dominant in UK than any other country outside of India so you would us to be blacklisted by other countries but few have. As others have said you do have to wonder whether this is being done because border force can't cope currently let alone with an increase.

the other thing that is pretty evident is that no way are people travelling to amber countries following the requirements for all the additional testing given the costs involved so they ought to have just Red or Green countries if they really want to minimise the possibility of importing the virus.

 

[Butts]

Having just returned from Northern Ireland relieved that my next two trips during July are to Jersey and The Republic of Ireland providing it opens up on the 19th July.

It's getting beyond a joke the lack of Countries on The Green List.

If you are fully vaccinated you should be able to return to the UK with no testing at all or it should be free like it is in Jersey.

 

[Cdd89]

the other thing that is pretty evident is that no way are people travelling to amber countries following the requirements for all the additional testing given the costs involved so they ought to have just Red or Green countries if they really want to minimise the possibility of importing the virus.

I assume you mean “travelling from amber countries” above; it’s of no concern to us what people do in the other direction. The additional testing requirements for travel from amber can theoretically be checked at entry with penalties for noncompliance. I’m sure you are correct that some people will be lying or otherwise avoiding it, but why wouldn’t such people also lie/avoid the red list requirements?

 

[Butts]

I assume you mean “travelling from amber countries” above; it’s of no concern to us what people do in the other direction. The additional testing requirements for travel from amber can theoretically be checked at entry with penalties for noncompliance. I’m sure you are correct that some people will be lying or otherwise avoiding it, but why wouldn’t such people also lie/avoid the red list requirements?

Look at the way Jersey are handling it if you are travelling from an "Amber" part of the UK - an example to everyone of good practice.

 

[Mintona]

I can’t see why they would let us ever travel abroad again. A good proportion of the population are perpetually scared of this thing now, and they seem to be
the ones who hold the power. Next year we’ll doubtless have all had a booster jab, and yet won’t be allowed out of our own front door.

 

[Class 33]

From Tuesday

So just less than 5 days notice then. Yet a few weeks ago when this traffic light system was announced, Grant Shapps said this time if a country was going down from green to amber or amber to red, that a couple of weeks notice would be given!

 

[221129]

So just less than 5 days notice then. Yet a few weeks ago when this traffic light system was announced, Grant Shapps said this time if a country was going down from green to amber or amber to red, that a couple of weeks notice would be given!

Are we even surprised?

 

[Class 33]

Are we even surprised?

Not really no.

 

[bramling]

So it seems we're in a much worse position for restrictions than last year, despite all the vaccinations. Seems a little odd, doesn't it?

If I had a pound for every time I heard someone talking about "tough restrictions will be necessary over the winter". It's almost like some people absolutely relish it.

Deja-vu for sure.

 

[island]

Of course it is. Well unless The Home Office are going to pay for my extra tests or payout to cancel my trip I won't be isolating for sure.

There is no chance whatsoever they will be doing so and every chance that you will be refused travel or issued an FPN at passport control if you fail or refuse to produce adequate evidence of having taken a test before starting your trip home or having pre-purchased your day 2 and day 8 tests.

Can Border Force issue FPNs?

Yes.

What is the process? You return to the UK do the border force require you to pay for the PCR test then? If so, do you receive it then or is it later sent to your address?

If you are travelling to England you much purchase your testing package from one of the approved private testing providers and provide a receipt to Border Force. You can agree with the testing provider how the tests will be administered; most will post them to you and you self-administer and post them back.

If the answer is you have to pay for the PCR on arrival and it is sent to your address (as I suspect might be the case), then I think there is a law that there is a "14 day cooling off period" if you purchase something you haven't seen (unless it's bespoke). It would be a brave person to try it, but I wonder what would happen if you paid for the PCR on arrival go home and later cancel it under the "cooling off" legislation (Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013). Does the law give power of arrest in this case?

I think “medical products” are exempt from the right to cancel under article 27 of the regulations, though it is debatable whether these tests fit the definition. Alternatively they may be exempt as “services relating to leisure activities that must be performed at a specific time”. Neither is clear.

Taking it for the sake of argument, however, that cancellation is possible, it is an offence to fail to take the day 2 or day 8 test without reasonable excuse.

There is a power of arrest for failure to self-isolate, just like any other criminal offence. The distinction of arrestable offences was abolished some time ago.

Do you get a criminal record if you get fined for not quarantining?

If you get issued a fixed penalty notice and pay it, you don’t.

If you get taken to court you also don’t as it isn’t a recordable offence, though in this case there is some chance of it appearing on an enhanced DBS.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I can’t see why they would let us ever travel abroad again. A good proportion of the population are perpetually scared of this thing now, and they seem to be
the ones who hold the power. Next year we’ll doubtless have all had a booster jab, and yet won’t be allowed out of our own front door.

Remember this is all about Boris delivering on his promises so he is removing all external threats to this, however small, thus giving 21st June best chance. Come end of months many EU countries, based on current trends, will be in a better place than UK so be hard to not allow them on the list but govt will be able to take credit for it.

 

[Yew]

The quarantine requirements are ultimately just nationalistic willy waving from the populist PM we're unfortunate enough to have calling the shots. Even for non-vaccinated people, with all the tests that have to be taken pre- and post-travel, quarantine requirements are stupid. And variants still get in, so they don't even work!

It's just one of the many pointless regulations we've had to endure throughout this pandemic.

Indeed, it's important to remember that all our pandemic plans said that quarantining was essentially useless. Given that despite strict quarantine, Australia now has cases of the Indian variant; I'm struggling to see anything to suggest it does anything in practice other than make money for some hotel chains.

 

[Watershed]

It's become clear that the government are aiming for us to become an Australia/NZ style "zero Covid" country, whereby the border is heavily restricted in a vain attempt to keep Covid out to "allow" life to be unrestricted here.

Unfortunately a significant proportion of the public seem to support such measures. I suspect a lot of that has to do with the underlying current of xenophobia in this country. Though, of course, no-one would ever admit that.

 

[Mintona]

Michael O’Leary was decidedly unimpressed with any of this on BBC Breakfast this morning.

He’s right, but the vast majority of people (on Twitter at least) seem to be taking the opposing view (“when did he get his epidemiology degree” etc)

These people are the true anti-vaxers.

 

[roversfan2001]

He’s right, but the vast majority of people (on Twitter at least) seem to be taking the opposing view (“when did he get his epidemiology degree” etc)

Of course, politicians with zero relevant qualifications are supported when they make these decisons (but only when it suits the blue heart brigade). But when someone else with zero relevant qualifications says the opposite they get jumped on.

Epidemiologists and virologists aren't all singing from the same hymn sheet either.

 

[johncrossley]

Michael O’Leary was decidedly unimpressed with any of this on BBC Breakfast this morning.

He’s right, but the vast majority of people (on Twitter at least) seem to be taking the opposing view (“when did he get his epidemiology degree” etc)

These people are the true anti-vaxers.

"Variant, scariant!"

 

[Cdd89]

Rates are going to vary worldwide forever, so until people stop demanding that governments “control Covid [rates]” I don’t see this going anywhere sadly. It only ends once society agrees to treat Covid like we do other illnesses. I think test/trace/isolate will go before the last of border restrictions.

 

[brad465]

Judging by the news today about Gove being alerted by the NHS on his return from Porto, I get the feeling Portugal was only ever on the Green list so he could get away there; as soon as he returned Portugal could be put on Amber. None of this would surprise me in the slightest.

 

[Simon11]

Do you get a criminal record if you get fined for not quarantining?

This is a really good point and for people who haven't traveled, it is surprising still easy to get around all the restrictions. It is scare mongering and easy to get around the policy.

I have known a few people to fly in the last few months for work and family reasons. Plenty of them flying from red listed countries to Greece for 10 days to enjoy a mini-holiday before being allowed to 'isolate at home'. While supposedly at home, they remain sensible like not gathering with big groups/ strangers but they still meet with friends and family at home. The only monitoring may be a daily phone call or a visit, however these are so easy to shrug off when it is just a person on minimum wage who won't have experience or qualification or really care! As long as you lay low for 10 days, the government/ police won't know a thing and have far too many people to track.

 

[packermac]

Michael O’Leary was decidedly unimpressed with any of this on BBC Breakfast this morning.

He’s right, but the vast majority of people (on Twitter at least) seem to be taking the opposing view (“when did he get his epidemiology degree” etc)

These people are the true anti-vaxers.

He is an airline CEO so he is bound to say he wants travel open. Plus in his case he will spout about anything that takes his fancy.
You will also need to explain to me why as someone who today (three weeks after his second jab and thus have just reached the best protection level the vaccine gives) and who also feels that proper border control is one of the worse things we have done in this country I am an anti-vaxer? What makes me and many other who have had the vaccination anti vaccine, I would like to know.

 

[TravelDream]

I have known a few people to fly in the last few months for work and family reasons. Plenty of them flying from red listed countries to Greece for 10 days to enjoy a mini-holiday before being allowed to 'isolate at home'. While supposedly at home, they remain sensible like not gathering with big groups/ strangers but they still meet with friends and family at home. The only monitoring may be a daily phone call or a visit, however these are so easy to shrug off when it is just a person on minimum wage who won't have experience or qualification or really care! As long as you lay low for 10 days, the government/ police won't know a thing and have far too many people to track.

They are doing daily phone calls and visits? I saw in the news something about checks, but didn't realise it was actually happening and every day.

I flew back to the UK before Christmas (so before the traffic light system, but with home quarantine in force).
The only thing I received was a single email on the first day home reminding me to quarantine.


On Greece, I think it's one of the big reasons Turkey and the UAE were put on the red-list (though they also had high cases and Turkey's data was patently fake). People were just flying there to avoid the hotel quarantine. You can get a decent hotel in Istanbul for £25 a night so a fraction of the cost in the UK.
You can do the same today avoiding quarantine. Fly from/to Gibraltar and cross the land border or fly to Dublin and then on to the UK. There are no stamps in passports so who would know?

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I just managed to fly to Spain with Easyjet.

Apart from masks, it feels exactly like 2019.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

France have quickly changed tack and will allow UK nationals in from Monday 7th June if you have had two doses and negative test.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...llow-uk-tourists-to-enter-if-fully-vaccinated

OK you will have to quarantine for 10 days when you return so not much use but it shows that despite the appearance of this new variant France sees the threat differently if your vaccinated and so should we.

 

[johnnychips]

I just managed to fly to Spain with Easyjet.

Apart from masks, it feels exactly like 2019.

Hope you have a smashing time in Spain like I want to mid-July. Will you have to get a test before you return, or is all that stuff when you get back?

 

[philosopher]

Judging by the news today about Gove being alerted by the NHS on his return from Porto, I get the feeling Portugal was only ever on the Green list so he could get away there; as soon as he returned Portugal could be put on Amber. None of this would surprise me in the slightest.

The BBC are saying he will get off quarantining for 10 days despite being in contact with someone with Covid-19 by taking daily tests:

Covid: Michael Gove alerted by NHS Test and Trace after Champions League trip

The cabinet office minister had recently returned from watching the Champions League final in Portugal.

www.bbc.co.uk

Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove has been alerted by NHS Test and Trace to say he had come into contact with someone with coronavirus.
The senior Conservative had recently returned from Portugal after supporting Chelsea in the Champions League final.
Instead of self isolating for 10 days, Mr Gove will take daily Covid tests as part of a pilot scheme designed to measure testing effectiveness.

Seems a little bit too convenient that he just happens to be part of a trial if you ask me.

 

[Andyh82]

It's become clear that the government are aiming for us to become an Australia/NZ style "zero Covid" country, whereby the border is heavily restricted in a vain attempt to keep Covid out to "allow" life to be unrestricted here.

Unfortunately a significant proportion of the public seem to support such measures. I suspect a lot of that has to do with the underlying current of xenophobia in this country. Though, of course, no-one would ever admit that.

Although from what I see online, the vocal left wingers, the vocal remainers are the ones demanding that borders should have been shut earlier and harder and criticising Boris for not doing so, so it isn’t the UKIP types.

 

[Huntergreed]

The BBC are saying he will get off quarantining for 10 days despite being in contact with someone with Covid-19 by taking daily tests:

Seems a little bit too convenient that he just happens to be part of a trial if you ask me.

In that case, we should all be able to do that.

So sick of this 'one rule for us, one rule for them'

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Hope you have a smashing time in Spain like I want to mid-July. Will you have to get a test before you return, or is all that stuff when you get back?

Thanks!
Yes, I will need to get a test before return and two tests after I returned with 10 days self isolation (if Spain remains amber like it is now)

 

[Yew]

France have quickly changed tack and will allow UK nationals in from Monday 7th June if you have had two doses and negative test.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...llow-uk-tourists-to-enter-if-fully-vaccinated

OK you will have to quarantine for 10 days when you return so not much use but it shows that despite the appearance of this new variant France sees the threat differently if your vaccinated and so should we.

So I've given up a year of my life, to become a second-class citizen? Part of the understanding of vaccine distribution based on risk, is that those who have graciously allowed others to be vaccinated first; is that they will not be discriminated against for their acting in the greater good.