Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations

[londonteacher]

So I've given up a year of my life, to become a second-class citizen? Part of the understanding of vaccine distribution based on risk, is that those who have graciously allowed others to be vaccinated first; is that they will not be discriminated against for their acting in the greater good.

Well unfortunately, whether we like it or not, other countries would rather not take any perceived risk (whether it's truthful or not). And, as you and others have had pointed out to you we have no say in other countries border restrictions. Just like they have no say in ours. Even if you believe that it is politically motivated or not.

I also have not been vaccinated yet - hopefully my first dose will be in the next few weeks as I'm 27 - so I am also affected. I've not seen my other half since January 2020 as she lives in the US and we are still banned from entering. But I accept that this is out of my control as much as I would love the rules to change.

 

[Yew]

we have no say in other countries border restrictions.

We could have required their representatives to adhere to the same restrictions they foist upon us to visit for the G7 visit. We could abandon this nationalistic pseudoscience ourselves, and set an example to the world, we could call out their discrimination for what it is and implore the WHO, Council of Europe and United Nations to act. Instead we sit and do nothing, hyper-analysing every inconsequential variant and indirectly prolonging this.

 

[londonteacher]

We could have required their representatives to adhere to the same restrictions they foist upon us to visit for the G7 visit. We could abandon this nationalistic pseudoscience ourselves, and set an example to the world, we could call out their discrimination for what it is and implore the WHO, Council of Europe and United Nations to act. Instead we sit and do nothing, hyper-analysing every inconsequential variant and indirectly prolonging this.

I agree that the G7 should be virtual and to be honest their is no reason why not.

No government in the world would that hasn't already, at this stage of the pandemic, would allow for everyone to enter the country because they will be too scared for it to backfire on them if it goes wrong. Even though there is no evidence that any of the varients are dangerous. Politicians are too scared to not be voted in next time.

 

[Ediswan]

I agree that the G7 should be virtual and to be honest their is no reason why not.

I doubt the various governments will be putting in this much effort without expecting to benefit from in-person meetings.

Carbis Bay has a railway station and a nice beach. They will not be there for the nightlife.

 

[TravelDream]

So I've given up a year of my life, to become a second-class citizen? Part of the understanding of vaccine distribution based on risk, is that those who have graciously allowed others to be vaccinated first; is that they will not be discriminated against for their acting in the greater good.

It's pretty damn annoying, isn't it?

I've had my first jab, but my second is probably 10 weeks away or so (in Wales so we still have the 12 week gap and we can't book the second jab in advanced). I work from home so could quarantine here in the UK without huge difficulty, but obviously couldn't going elsewhere.

France isn't the first country to do it. Poland requires a test and ten day quarantine unless double vaccinated then you can go in without any conditions at all.

 

[ExRes]

We could have required their representatives to adhere to the same restrictions they foist upon us to visit for the G7 visit. We could abandon this nationalistic pseudoscience ourselves, and set an example to the world, we could call out their discrimination for what it is and implore the WHO, Council of Europe and United Nations to act. Instead we sit and do nothing, hyper-analysing every inconsequential variant and indirectly prolonging this.

Considering the majority of people in this country appear to consider the UK to be a powerless and pointless speck not worthy of any consideration, I would think it highly unlikely that we could "call out" anybody or "set an example to the world" in anything, the WHO is bought and paid for by the Chinese, the Council of Europe by the French and Germans while the UN drowns in its own self importance, I can well imagine the response to being "called out" by the UK in Russia, China and the US

 

[Cdd89]

The rules around mandatory quarantine in the Netherlands have finally been published and they are a lot more relaxed than the UK’s rules.

COVID-19 and visiting the Netherlands

The Government of the Netherlands has decided to lift all travel restrictions related to coronavirus.

www.government.nl

• Only mandatory for travel from 24 “very high risk” countries (similar to our “red list” level)
• Test to release on day 5, using a free public test
• All home quarantine, no enforced “hotel quarantine”
• Large list of exceptions to quarantine even from “very high risk” countries, which includes things like visiting a family member you haven’t seen in a long time
• No quarantine requirement whatsoever for the vast majority of countries

The U.K. government should really be being challenged as to why we need such draconian border controls when other European countries have more proportionate measures in place (backed up by testing). But instead the prevailing narrative in the media (and supported by the opposition) is around “leaky borders”, comparisons to Australia, and demands for “100% effectiveness”. I’m very concerned that this is one area where the “Zero Covid” advocates may have got their way.

 

[island]

The rules around mandatory quarantine in the Netherlands have finally been published and they are a lot more relaxed than the UK’s rules.

COVID-19 and visiting the Netherlands

The Government of the Netherlands has decided to lift all travel restrictions related to coronavirus.

www.government.nl

• Only mandatory for travel from 24 “very high risk” countries (similar to our “red list” level)
• Test to release on day 5, using a free public test
• All home quarantine, no enforced “hotel quarantine”
• Large list of exceptions to quarantine even from “very high risk” countries, which includes things like visiting a family member you haven’t seen in a long time
• No quarantine requirement whatsoever for the vast majority of countries

The U.K. government should really be being challenged as to why we need such draconian border controls when other European countries have more proportionate measures in place (backed up by testing). But instead the prevailing narrative in the media (and supported by the opposition) is around “leaky borders”, comparisons to Australia, and demands for “100% effectiveness”. I’m very concerned that this is one area where the “Zero Covid” advocates may have got their way.

It’s because it’s easy to point to “foreigners” or “holidaymakers” as a scapegoat for bringing “variants” into the country and it blows enough dog whistles to stock a medium size Pets at Home.

 

[Butts]

Let's get rid of any requirement for testing/quarantining on people returning to the UK who are fully vaccinated from any Country.

 

[Richard Scott]

Let's get rid of any requirement for testing/quarantining on people returning to the UK who are fully vaccinated from any Country.

Agreed, got to return to normal at some stage and being vaccinated is as good as it's going to get for protection from impacts not the virus.

 

[londonteacher]

Agreed, got to return to normal at some stage and being vaccinated is as good as it's going to get for protection from impacts not the virus.

I agree with the quarantine, but a free PCR test wouldn't be the end of the world for now.

Although not a permanent thing.

 

[Darandio]

Never mind travelling abroad restriction free. A cruise ship comprised entirely of UK residents who are all fully vaccinated and tested negative before boarding have been refused permission to disembark in.............Scotland.

Covid in Scotland: Cruise ship not allowed to dock in Greenock

Passengers on board the MSC Virtuosa cannot embark or disembark in Greenock because of Covid travel restrictions.

www.bbc.co.uk

Passengers on a cruise ship touring the UK have been told they will not be allowed to disembark in Scotland.
The MSC Virtuosa's operator says Scottish government Covid rules block it from entering the port of Greenock.
The government has said domestic cruises can only restart when restrictions in all of Scotland reach level one.
It insisted the decision was based on the risks "between both cruises and the wider travel context".

The MSC Virtuosa left Liverpool earlier this week for a seven-night cruise, with planned stops in Greenock in Inverclyde, as well as Belfast, Southampton and the Isle of Portland.
It was then due to stop in Greenock again on the return journey.
It can carry more than 6,000 passengers but has just under 900 currently on board to allow for social-distancing measures.

The Scottish Passenger Agents Association (SPAA) confirmed that Wednesday's scheduled stop in Greenock had been cancelled. The ship was due to dock in Greenock at about 09:30, departing at 20:00 the same day.
The industry body said the situation meant Scots on board the vessel were effectively "barred from setting foot in their own country". Passengers will not be able to get on the ship at Greenock either.
The SPAA said everyone on the ship was a UK resident, fully vaccinated, and recently tested negative.
The organisation's president, Joanne Dooey, told the BBC's Good Morning Scotland programme she believed the decision was "ludicrous" when people can travel into Scotland by train or car unhindered.
She said: "We had the Northern Belle in last week to Edinburgh from Manchester which had lots of tourists on it with no testing at all.
"What's the difference between a cruise ship coming in and football taking place in Glasgow with no testing being put in place?
"And when are we ever going to have confidence in the vaccination progress? We are going to have to live with new variants coming in and we have to get on with our lives."
The SPAA has seen a copy of an email sent to current passengers by the cruise operator.
It says: "Due to the latest Scottish government Covid 19 restrictions and regulations... we are sorry to inform you that the port call of Greenock has been cancelled.
"No guests are allowed to embark or disembark... This decision has been made by the Scottish government and is out of our control."

Scottish passengers were due to join the cruise in Greenock and the SPAA anticipated that a third of those currently on board were expected to go ashore for excursions on Wednesday.
Michele Lister, who works for Glasgow-based Glen Travel, is one of those who boarded the ship in Liverpool.
She said: "We were expecting to go into Greenock tomorrow morning for the full day... and we're not allowed to go into my own country which is really disappointing.
"There's about half a dozen people that I'm aware of on board that are Scottish and they want to show off to the English customers what Scotland's all about and they want to spend the money in the area as well, which is badly needed."
Linda Hill, who owns LAH Travel in West Kilbride, described the decision as "another nail in the coffin for the travel industry".
She told BBC Scotland's Drivetime programme: "The cruise industry has obviously been very hard hit over the past 18 months.
"But we had seen a way to start, very safely, some UK cruises with lots of very safe protocols including limited numbers on board.
"This is a brand new cruise ship which was coming to Greenock tomorrow and there was great excitement to see such a fabulous cruise liner in our own waters.
"Sadly, the Scottish government has said passengers cannot embark or disembark at Greenock. The sailing is still going ahead - it's just missing out Scotland."

 

[londonteacher]

Never mind travelling abroad restriction free. A cruise ship comprised entirely of UK residents who are all fully vaccinated and tested negative before boarding have been refused permission to disembark in.............Scotland.

Covid in Scotland: Cruise ship not allowed to dock in Greenock

Passengers on board the MSC Virtuosa cannot embark or disembark in Greenock because of Covid travel restrictions.

www.bbc.co.uk

It is stupid. But is it because the Scottish guidelines are against cruise ship travel currently?

 

[Darandio]

It is stupid. But is it because the Scottish guidelines are against cruise ship travel currently?

I believe they won't allow it until all of Scotland is at level one.

Even then i'm not convinced more excuses will be trotted out as nothing is ever good enough.

 

[TravelDream]

Let's get rid of any requirement for testing/quarantining on people returning to the UK who are fully vaccinated from any Country.

This government will never go for that.

Realistically, the best we can hope for is a test before departure and one back in the UK for those fully vaccinated similar to the green list testing requirements.

I think a 'red list' is inevitable too because our government seems terrified of biological fact (i.e. viruses mutate. Always have, always will).

 

[joncombe]

I think it's clear the "red list" doesn't work either.

The BBC is reporting that Reading council is calling for a qurantine hotel to be closed as cases are spreading between "guests" and security staff and that this had been directly linked to community transmission.

Haven't Australia seen similar. I can't see how it could work if staff are allowed to leave (which to be clear, they absolutely should be).

A council has called on the government to shut a quarantine hotel in Reading after a Covid-19 outbreak.
Reading council said Penta Hotel in Oxford Road needed to "urgently close" after it was linked to a "significant" number of positive cases.
It added it was "unconvinced" the outbreak was under control or that robust safety measures were in place.
The Department for Health and Social Care (DHSC) has been approached for comment.
A total of 44 positive cases of Covid-19 have been identified among residents and staff at the DHSC-run quarantine facility, which opened on 29 April.
Reading Borough Council said it was notified of the first outbreak on 9 May.

 

[Cdd89]

I think it's clear the "red list" doesn't work either.

The BBC is reporting that Reading council is calling for a qurantine hotel to be closed as cases are spreading between "guests" and security staff and that this had been directly linked to community transmission.

Haven't Australia seen similar. I can't see how it could work if staff are allowed to leave (which to be clear, they absolutely should be).

Yes this is the problem. When this happens to Australia / NZ, and it results in community transmission, they have to go into lockdowns to stamp out all cases. We aren’t doing Zero Covid so that’s not an option for us.

If we assume that testing is 90% effective, home quarantine is 95% effective and hotel quarantine is 99% effective — 99% isn’t sufficient to “keep out vaccine busting variants” (or whatever the line is today) and is disproportionate to the actual threat of Covid importation in comparison to risks we accept domestically.

 

[TravelDream]

I think it's clear the "red list" doesn't work either.

The BBC is reporting that Reading council is calling for a qurantine hotel to be closed as cases are spreading between "guests" and security staff and that this had been directly linked to community transmission.

Haven't Australia seen similar. I can't see how it could work if staff are allowed to leave (which to be clear, they absolutely should be).

Yes, there have been several cases in Australia of it happening. With security, cleaning and other staff at the quarantine hotels. Some staff have been accused of keeping guest company if you get what I mean - the guests are locked up for 14 days and need something to do after all!

That's how Australia has the Indian variant. At the end of the day, you can't completely seal the border ever. We'll still need lorry dirvers to bring food/ goods from France and Ireland and diplomats to travel around etc. etc.
Different strains will always find a way in.

My understanding is that the UK hotels have been operating in a pretty poor way. Guests allowed outside when they want, but accompanied by security staff. A high rotation of staff within the hotel itself and limited testing. I read somwhere of staff pretending to have negative test results on those lateral flow self-test devices when really they were positive. The hotel then had to have a manager take the test devices off people and have the manager develop and check them.

 

[kristiang85]

I've just realised the most ridiculous thing.

If you go to an amber country, you have to pay for (expensive) tests on Day 2 and Day 8 of your return quarantine.

However, the 'test to release' is still available - you you can pay for an (even more expensive) test on Day 5, which if negative you are released from your quarantine.

Yet even after doing that you still have to do the Day 8 test, even though its essentially pointless.

What is the logic, apart from making people pay yet more money to testing companies?

 

[Cdd89]

There is no point. But there is a loophole which is even more ridiculous than the example above:

• The law requires you to take the day 8 test after day 8, but it doesn’t say how many days after.
• You are freed from quarantine on day 10, as long as you have taken the day 8 test. (Otherwise you have to quarantine for 14 days).
• But if you take Test to Release, the above provision for a 14 day quarantine without a day 8 test doesn’t apply to you.
• So you take the day 2 (genome sequencing) and day 5 (TTR) tests, and then defer the day 8 test on the never-never, reusing it for another purpose (eg a pre-departure test on a future trip). It is then used both as a “day 8 or later” test, and for the intended purpose.

Also I never understand why travel PCR testing is so expensive. It is the perfect candidate for pooled testing since there is a low chance of any individual test returning positive. Symptomatic testing is far more expensive since there’s a greater need to have to test each sample individually yet the NHS does that for free.

 

[kristiang85]

There is no point. But there is a loophole which is even more ridiculous than the example above:

• The law requires you to take the day 8 test after day 8, but it doesn’t say how many days after.
• You are freed from quarantine on day 10, as long as you have taken the day 8 test. (Otherwise you have to quarantine for 14 days).
• But if you take Test to Release, the above provision for a 14 day quarantine without a day 8 test doesn’t apply to you.
• So you take the day 2 (genome sequencing) and day 5 (TTR) tests, and then defer the day 8 test on the never-never, reusing it for another purpose (eg a pre-departure test on a future trip). It is then used both as a “day 8 or later” test, and for the intended purpose.

Also I never understand why travel PCR testing is so expensive. It is the perfect candidate for pooled testing since there is a low chance of any individual test returning positive. Symptomatic testing is far more expensive since there’s a greater need to have to test each sample individually yet the NHS does that for free.

Hah, amazing. I might utilise this loophole then...

I don't know why either. Most other countries subsidise it, we don't. There are three possibilities as far as I can tell:
- The government is in the pocket of private testing companies who make a lot of money from it.
- The government wants us all to spend our COVID savings here and not abroad, and wants to effectively 'tax' those of us who decide to do that.
- There is a more sinister anti-travel lobby at work.

At the moment, I am not dissuaded from believing any of these.

 

[Bantamzen]

There is no point. But there is a loophole which is even more ridiculous than the example above:

• The law requires you to take the day 8 test after day 8, but it doesn’t say how many days after.
• You are freed from quarantine on day 10, as long as you have taken the day 8 test. (Otherwise you have to quarantine for 14 days).
• But if you take Test to Release, the above provision for a 14 day quarantine without a day 8 test doesn’t apply to you.
• So you take the day 2 (genome sequencing) and day 5 (TTR) tests, and then defer the day 8 test on the never-never, reusing it for another purpose (eg a pre-departure test on a future trip). It is then used both as a “day 8 or later” test, and for the intended purpose.

Also I never understand why travel PCR testing is so expensive. It is the perfect candidate for pooled testing since there is a low chance of any individual test returning positive. Symptomatic testing is far more expensive since there’s a greater need to have to test each sample individually yet the NHS does that for free.

Why is travel testing so much more expensive?

Clue: Kerching!!

 

[LAX54]

Let's get rid of any requirement for testing/quarantining on people returning to the UK who are fully vaccinated from any Country.

Surely that's as it should be, if you have had 2 jabs, then the chance you have caught Covid, is smaller than the chance of bringing flu back !
However as we are really still not allowed to go anywhere, well about half a dozen far flung outposts, not an issue currently
Hopefully in July, more places will be 'available', bit bemused as to why places like the USA still has it's door shut to the UK, when it has opened to 110 other Countries, some far worse than us !

 

[kristiang85]

I guess it could always be worse...

Jonathan Cheng

@JChengWSJ

"A German national who flew into Shanghai…tested positive for antibodies, which he attributed to taking a second vaccine dose…Nurses took his blood twice a day and performed six throat swabs, four nasal swabs and two anal swabs daily."

 

[nlogax]

I guess it could always be worse...

Yeah..any thoughts I had of returning to China went straight out of the window when I first read that.

 

[TravelDream]

''One year on we are no further forward ... Global Britain, shut for business: we've gone backwards''
"We now have over 50% of the adult pop vaccinated yet we are more restricted on travel than we were last year"
"The messaging is mixed and the system is chaotic"
"We will not eradicate Covid-19 in the UK; variants will keep on coming – if the govt's position is that we cannot open up travel until there are no new variants elsewhere in the world then we will never be able to travel abroad ever again"

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1402992109137784835

I never thought I'd miss having May as prime minister. She just spoke a lot of sense in the Commons.

 

[joncombe]

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1402992109137784835

I never thought I'd miss having May as prime minister. She just spoke a lot of sense in the Commons.

Yes good comments.

Meanwhile, British Airways has put thousands of staff back on Furlough, as reported on the BBC. The travel industry too needs to keep the pressure up too and this move will cost the Government money (though it is unfortunate that they don't seem to care about that at the moment).

British Airways has put thousands of its staff back on furlough because of delays to the restart of international travel.
BA had begun to bring people back ahead of the easing of restrictions on foreign holidays on 17 May.
But only a small number of countries have been put on the government's green list, meaning travellers do not have to quarantine on their return.
Moreover, official advice remains not to visit amber countries for leisure.
This has meant the travel industry is now almost at a standstill as the majority of people choose not to travel.
It is understood a large number of BA staff were already on furlough, but this change means many more will go back onto the government wage support scheme.

 

[Butts]

Just had to can my points building trip to Jersey from Edinburgh in 3 weeks time on BA.

Although I am now in possession of my Vaccine Certificate from NHS Scotland which eases entry requirements I can't take the chance of Falkirk going Red in the intervening period and being cooped up in my Hotel for my short vacation.

Crazy isn't it ?

Back to Belfast instead to clock up another 160 Tier Points and unlimited access with no testing or forms.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Just had to can my points building trip to Jersey from Edinburgh in 3 weeks time on BA.

Although I am now in possession of my Vaccine Certificate from NHS Scotland which eases entry requirements I can't take the chance of Falkirk going Red in the intervening period and being cooped up in my Hotel for my short vacation.

Crazy isn't it ?

Back to Belfast instead to clock up another 160 Tier Points and unlimited access with no testing or forms.

I’m not bothering with any runs; hoping for further status extensions.

 

[Cdd89]

I’m not bothering with any runs; hoping for further status extensions.

In March 2020 I was less than a year away from lifetime gold with BA. Who'd have thought those last ~6k would take me another decade?

Though that and holidays are the least of my worries at the moment, more worrying is the long term implications (to the wider economy, and personally) of the decimation of business travel (and not the "should have been on Zoom in the first place" kind).