Where's Boris?

[RichT54]

OK, I know he's at Chequers recovering from the virus, but I'm really surprised at the lack of updates about his condition and when he might return to work.

There is a vacuum at the top of government that other members of the cabinet (chosen solely for their support of brexit) seem unable to fill in a convincing way; resulting in mismanagement and delays in decision making, for example in the provision of PPE.

Given the acknowledged by the government that Boris didn't attend a number of Cobra meetings before he was taken ill, would it actually make a difference when he does return to work?

Where is the leadership that this country desperately needs in this time of crisis?

 

[Bantamzen]

It will be likely one of two things. Either he still isn't fully recovered, and doesn't feel able to fully step back up again. Or, and at the risk of being very cynical, he is keeping his head down in the light of all the accusations of the government acting way too slowly, and waiting until there is positive news (i.e. easing up on lockdown) before he rides back in on his charger.

Its probably the first reason, although I really wouldn't be surprised if it were the second or a combination of both.

 

[Carlisle]

Where is the leadership that this country desperately needs in this time of crisis?

Yes, I was also wondering that given some of the media appear to be suggesting he risks becoming a modern day Neville Chamberlain

 

[Chester1]

OK, I know he's at Chequers recovering from the virus, but I'm really surprised at the lack of updates about his condition and when he might return to work.

There is a vacuum at the top of government that other members of the cabinet (chosen solely for their support of brexit) seem unable to fill in a convincing way; resulting in mismanagement and delays in decision making, for example in the provision of PPE.

Given the acknowledged by the government that Boris didn't attend a number of Cobra meetings before he was taken ill, would it actually make a difference when he does return to work?

Where is the leadership that this country desperately needs in this time of crisis?

The COBRA meeting thing is a red herring, the majority of them are chaired by the relevant secretary of state and the PM gets an update. The media is jumping on it with the benefit of hindsight, at the time they would have ran stories about him not trusting Matt Hancock if he had decided to chair them himself!

The government has announced some stuff that Boris has done at Chequers. He has daily calls with Dominic Raab and has had a 1 to 1 call with President Trump. It sounds like he is on Doctors orders to do the minimum work possible and that is more or less just reviewing Raab's work. He came out of hospital after a serious infection a week and a half ago and most of the predictions were 2-4 weeks initial recovery and months before full recovery. Its not realistic to expect him to be running the country as per normal. The structure in place is probably the best that can be done until Boris is fit to work full time. He can exert political authority over the government but Dominic Raab is doing the leg work because he can't.

 

[Domh245]

The man's been intubated and effectively suffered severe pneumonia, it'll take a while for him to get back to full health assuming his lungs haven't been permanently damaged (WHO suggests 3-6 weeks for recovery from severe cases) - he's currently 4 weeks on from official diagnosis

Also worth remembering that for all the way that PMs have been treated, he isn't a president and doesn't have overriding power - he is a figurehead for Government and will to some extent be the guiding hand on the cabinet, but that doesn't mean that he has to have a final say in every single government decision. Equally, I'd be surprised if he was there directly managing and making decisions about the things OP is complaining about

 

[RichT54]

The man's been intubated

Didn't No.10 deny that?

 

[MotCO]

The man's been intubated and effectively suffered severe pneumonia, it'll take a while for him to get back to full health assuming his lungs haven't been permanently damaged (WHO suggests 3-6 weeks for recovery from severe cases) - he's currently 4 weeks on from official diagnosis

I agree that Boris was seriously ill - possibly the media releases were understating his condition. For a discription of what it means to recover from Covid-19, have a look at this article in the Telegraph by LBC's political editor, Theo Usherwood. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-...has-left-shadow-former-self-lies-store-boris/

In it he states "I was able to shuffle slowly out of hospital to a waiting black cab, stopping for breath every few steps. It was the end of a terrifying experience. But it was the start of a recovery which, even a month later, has left me feeling a fraction of what I was before.

Physically, I always knew it was going to take time until I felt strong again. My lungs were badly scarred. It had been five days before I could remove the oxygen tubes I had relied on since my wife, Romella, had called an ambulance to our small, terraced home in east London."

Edit: For clarity, the article is about Theo Usherwood's recovery, not Boris's.

 

[Domh245]

Didn't No.10 deny that?

Quite possibly, but then again they also said he went in for tests, at 8pm on a Sunday Evening. Even if not intubated he was in ICU for a period of time, so there was clearly a need to move him there (ie for more specialised care and treatment) otherwise he'd have stayed in the regular ward.

 

[edwin_m]

Also worth remembering that for all the way that PMs have been treated, he isn't a president and doesn't have overriding power - he is a figurehead for Government and will to some extent be the guiding hand on the cabinet, but that doesn't mean that he has to have a final say in every single government decision. Equally, I'd be surprised if he was there directly managing and making decisions about the things OP is complaining about

Boris arguably has more power (relative to the size of the country) than Trump. In the USA a lot of power is devolved down to individual states, including public health measures, and the Democrats have a majority in one house of Congress so can block any domestic legislation if they unite against it. By contrast a British PM with a large majority has very little to limit their power.

 

[HH]

He’s in a striped shirt hiding in plain sight...

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Boris arguably has more power (relative to the size of the country) than Trump. In the USA a lot of power is devolved down to individual states, including public health measures, and the Democrats have a majority in one house of Congress so can block any domestic legislation if they unite against it. By contrast a British PM with a large majority has very little to limit their power.

Correct. See the latest news about my state Georgia. Governor Brian Kemp has taken measures Donald Trump disagrees with and has stated so publicly at press conferences. Governors of states have a lot of power as does the House of Representatives which the Democrats control.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Correct. See the latest news about my state Georgia. Governor Brian Kemp has taken measures Donald Trump disagrees with and has stated so publicly at press conferences. Governors of states have a lot of power as does the House of Representatives which the Democrats control.

But then the UK is about the size of a US state anyway

 

[Ianno87]

Being cyncical, Boris (as sure as I am that it is genuinely for his recovery to full health) being out of the limelight gives the chance for Hancock etc to take the political flack instead...

 

[GRALISTAIR]

But then the UK is about the size of a US state anyway

That is true and in fact California (not the biggest state even) is bigger than the whole of the British Isles.

 

[Cowley]

I really do think that there’s no conspiracy here. I think he was genuinely very very ill and it’s going to take a while for him to get back to a reasonable level of health where he can start properly working and more to the point start publicly talking again.

 

[scotrail158713]

I really do think that there’s no conspiracy here. I think he was genuinely very very ill and it’s going to take a while for him to get back to a reasonable level of health where he can start properly working and more to the point start publicly talking again.

Agreed. He’s in a no win situation really - he’s got some saying that he’s hiding when the country need him. But if he came back too soon others would say he’s putting politics before his own health.

 

[squizzler]

Possibly he has realised being PM is not the lark it was cracked up to be?

That is true and in fact California (not the biggest state even) is bigger than the whole of the British Isles.

If the UK is roughly equivalent to an American State I reckon California, with its liberal values, should secede from the United States and take our former spot in the EU. The UK should could then occupy California's former role as one of the United States. Everyone would be happy!

 

[Ianno87]

I really do think that there’s no conspiracy here. I think he was genuinely very very ill and it’s going to take a while for him to get back to a reasonable level of health where he can start properly working and more to the point start publicly talking again.

Agreed. He’s in a no win situation really - he’s got some saying that he’s hiding when the country need him. But if he came back too soon others would say he’s putting politics before his own health.

I don't think it's a conspiracy or in any way intention. But it is still could be argued politically convenient.

 

[bramling]

The COBRA meeting thing is a red herring, the majority of them are chaired by the relevant secretary of state and the PM gets an update. The media is jumping on it with the benefit of hindsight, at the time they would have ran stories about him not trusting Matt Hancock if he had decided to chair them himself!

The government has announced some stuff that Boris has done at Chequers. He has daily calls with Dominic Raab and has had a 1 to 1 call with President Trump. It sounds like he is on Doctors orders to do the minimum work possible and that is more or less just reviewing Raab's work. He came out of hospital after a serious infection a week and a half ago and most of the predictions were 2-4 weeks initial recovery and months before full recovery. Its not realistic to expect him to be running the country as per normal. The structure in place is probably the best that can be done until Boris is fit to work full time. He can exert political authority over the government but Dominic Raab is doing the leg work because he can't.

That sums it up perfectly. However, it does seem to be turning out that (with the exception to some extent of Hancock) they don’t seem to be doing a great deal. Clearly the loss of Boris at the helm is having an effect, as it does feel there’s no leadership. People do seem to listen to Boris whereas I don’t think the likes of Raab have the same connection.

I wonder if one outcome of all this is we may see a return to a proper DPM post. What we have at the moment is too vague and hasn’t served us well through this, IMO.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I wonder if one outcome of all this is we may see a return to a proper DPM post. What we have at the moment is too vague and hasn’t served us well through this, IMO.

IMHO - a good idea

 

[thejuggler]

The COBRA issue isn't a red herring and as ever semantics are being used to cover the position. The relevant secretary of state may well be Chair, but also in the room is the PM.

 

[Chester1]

I wonder if one outcome of all this is we may see a return to a proper DPM post. What we have at the moment is too vague and hasn’t served us well through this, IMO.

IMHO - a good idea

I doubt it would make any real difference. It would be a Whitelaw, Hesstletine, or even John Prescott type role. Nick Clegg was different because he led the leader of the junior party in a coalition government. Making a senior cabinet member First Secretary of State does the same thing as calling them deputy PM.

The COBRA issue isn't a red herring and as ever semantics are being used to cover the position. The relevant secretary of state may well be Chair, but also in the room is the PM.

PMs do not attend the majority of COBRA meetings because much of it is detailed planning and often meets at a very high frequency. That is why the Guardian etc haven't written any analysis comparing with previous PMs. Gorden Brown and Thersea May probably attended a higher proportion than average because of their personalities. Id take the criticism more seriously if there was a proper comparison, especially with Major, Blair and Cameron's attendence.

 

[rd749249]

NZ nurse who tended to him over three days in ICU said on Sky News that "he absolutely had to be there". I'll take that as a confirmation that he was proper ill. I've seen estimates on news sites of one week absolute rest per one day in ICU that doctors advise here. Sounds reasonable to me too. I'd expect him to make an appearance early May, or in time for the next lockdown announcement.

 

[Chester1]

NZ nurse who tended to him over three days in ICU said on Sky News that "he absolutely had to be there". I'll take that as a confirmation that he was proper ill. I've seen estimates on news sites of one week absolute rest per one day in ICU that doctors advise here. Sounds reasonable to me too. I'd expect him to make an appearance early May, or in time for the next lockdown announcement.

I don't vote Tory, but I find some of the reaction his illness rather distasteful. Its very clear that it would be medically unwise for him to more than a minimal amount of supervision of Raab and some stuff like talking to Trump. He will be in a position to make the final decision over the lockdown and thats about as much as we can expect from someone recovering from a severe respiratory infection.

 

[nedchester]

I don't vote Tory, but I find some of the reaction his illness rather distasteful. Its very clear that it would be medically unwise for him to more than a minimal amount of supervision of Raab and some stuff like talking to Trump. He will be in a position to make the final decision over the lockdown and thats about as much as we can expect from someone recovering from a severe respiratory infection.

The problem is that it is understandable that people treat anything he says or does with contempt. He is known to be untrustworthy and is a liar (he lied to the Queen for a start). Therefore, I cannot help that although he did have Covid-19 he is now using it to his political advantage and will reappear when the news allows him to look good.

 

[Chester1]

The problem is that it is understandable that people treat anything he says or does with contempt. He is known to be untrustworthy and is a liar (he lied to the Queen for a start). Therefore, I cannot help that although he did have Covid-19 he is now using it to his political advantage and will reappear when the news allows him to look good.

I appreciate you have strongly negative views on Boris but that kind of reaction switches moderate people towards him. The degree to which he is taking advantage of it is an interesting question but unless we go into conspiracy theory territory he was obviously very ill and can't work much yet anyway. People don't go from needing oxygen for days to working full time under immense pressure in the space of two weeks! If the political situation was better I doubt we would have had more than an additional tweeted video message.

I am glad Keir Stammer is focusing on constructive criticism. I am getting sick of social media (and some mainstream media) deciding that the latest Boris or Tory error is going to be catastrophic for them. How did that work out in December? Stammer knows that he will be judged on 4 and a half years as leader of the opposition, looks like he is dragging the Labour party back toward traditional opposition and preparing for an election in 2024 not this year.

 

[nedchester]

I appreciate you have strongly negative views on Boris but that kind of reaction switches moderate people towards him. The degree to which he is taking advantage of it is an interesting question but unless we go into conspiracy theory territory he was obviously very ill and can't work much yet anyway. People don't go from needing oxygen for days to working full time under immense pressure in the space of two weeks! If the political situation was better I doubt we would have had more than an additional tweeted video message.

I am glad Keir Stammer is focusing on constructive criticism. I am getting sick of social media (and some mainstream media) deciding that the latest Boris or Tory error is going to be catastrophic for them. How did that work out in December? Stammer knows that he will be judged on 4 and a half years as leader of the opposition, looks like he is dragging the Labour party back toward traditional opposition and preparing for an election in 2024 not this year.

Also you don't go from being in intensive care to making broadcasts to Twitter within 5 days like Johnson did. I'm sorry but Johnson is keeping his head down during a period of bad news. He has form for it. I have little sympathy for him as I am convinced he is manipulating the current situation to his advantage. Maybe a case of wait and see but I reckon he will reappear once the news gets good and unlocking is on the agenda. The week beginning May 4th looks likely.

I agree with you re Starmer, a breath of fresh air.

 

[bramling]

The problem is that it is understandable that people treat anything he says or does with contempt. He is known to be untrustworthy and is a liar (he lied to the Queen for a start). Therefore, I cannot help that although he did have Covid-19 he is now using it to his political advantage and will reappear when the news allows him to look good.

I don’t see what there is to be cynical about. Prior to his visit to intensive care Boris was still attempting to lead when he probably shouldn’t have been. I think having Boris properly at the helm would have been a major help through all this, instead the lockdown has degenerated into a bit of a joke in some parts with a quite obvious lack of overview leadership from the government. Certainly at my work most people will give a hollow laugh when lockdown is mentioned and say “what lockdown?”, especially in the last week or two.

Hancock to be fair is having a decent crack at his brief, but he quite reasonably has enough on his plate dealing with NHS issues without having to worry about social cohesion too.

Whether this has materially affected the infection / death rates is a matter for conjecture, however I can’t help but wonder if some people had taken it a little more seriously then we might already be seeing relaxations.

 

[Chester1]

I don’t see what there is to be cynical about. Prior to his visit to intensive care Boris was still attempting to lead when he probably shouldn’t have been. I think having Boris properly at the helm would have been a major help through all this, instead the lockdown has degenerated into a bit of a joke in some parts with a quite obvious lack of overview leadership from the government. Certainly at my work most people will give a hollow laugh when lockdown is mentioned and say “what lockdown?”, especially in the last week or two.

Hancock to be fair is having a decent crack at his brief, but he quite reasonably has enough on his plate dealing with NHS issues without having to worry about social cohesion too.

Whether this has materially affected the infection / death rates is a matter for conjecture, however I can’t help but wonder if some people had taken it a little more seriously then we might already be seeing relaxations.

According to The Telegraph, Boris will be back in Downing Street on Monday and is scheduling meetings with cabinet ministers for next week. Its probably not a full return but at least a step up from supervising Raab from Chequers. It does seem to point to loosening the lockdown once the current one ends in two weeks time. It looks like he will be back in full control to authorise and implement the changes the government scientists think can be done.

 

[Carlisle]

I can’t help but wonder if some people had taken it a little more seriously then we might already be seeing relaxations.

That was primarily a matter for government rather than individuals, politicians have had a month in which they could’ve tightened lockdown conditions or reduced further the number of business allowed to operate