Which drugs have you taken?

[DaleCooper]

I've never taken illegal drugs and never would. Simple as that.

Can I have your share?

 

[backontrack]

Ibuprofen.

Just kidding, never taken any illegal drugs and don't intend to. Although the President of the European Commission has - his real name is Jean-Claude Junkie.

 

[Cowley]

Very interesting, quite a cross section of people on this forum.
Including some quite experimental ones by the looks of things.

 

[muz379]

Further whilst people may always try and undercut the official source the vast majority of people buy their alcohol and cigarettes from official sources (upon which they pay tax and which are a lot less shady then a drug dealer round the corner). Why would we want to continue to perpetuate a situation where criminality can thrive off of this prohibition which clearly isn't working?

Yes but official sources have always been the way of sourcing the legal drugs . Prior to the explosion in gangs illegally importing counterfeit or duty free cigarettes into this country the only source of those items was the official taxed and regulated sources . And I wonder if you did a survey of smokers how many would be totally prepared to buy from shady sources if it meant the price was lower .

With illicit drugs people have always sourced them from the black market for obvious reason . Now if we did legalize drugs I am sure some people would happily revert to paying more for their drugs knowing that they have gone through some QC etc etc . However I imagine a lot of drug users would still get them from their normal source who can easily undercut the taxed , regulated quality controlled source from the government . Can you imagine some smack head begging on the street really caring where his drugs come from ? No I cannot either . Can you imagine some 17 year old that just wants to smoke weed suddenly thinking oh wait drugs are legal now I will have to wait until I am 18 then I can buy some ? No me either

From a liberal perspective I could not care less if drugs did happen to be legalized . I personally have no interest in taking illegal drugs mainly because of my job , but even if I didnt have a job that subjected me to random drug screening apart from cannabis which is relatively safe I cannot see myself wanting to take any other drug . But if other people want to that is upto them . As long as it is done in a way so that the income raised from taxation covers the costs to the NHS of the drug use so be it .

My only problem is with this myth that legalizing drugs would end the war on drugs we currently see . It would not , there would still have to be significant resources aimed at tackling the illegal production and supply of drugs . And for reasons outlined above that would be more prevalent than with the black market in counterfeit alcohol or tobacco .

As for the arguments to move towards a Portuguese model . Fair enough I have no issue with that although I question if we really should be looking at addition and drug use as a normal part of society . Either way are we that different from that now what with the extensive drug treatment programs available on the NHS , the fact that courts will now make drug treatment orders . I am pretty sure if I went to portugal and started selling smack on the streets I would still be picked up by the police . Even though the law in this country says possession of class A is a serious offence how many times do the police actually arrest and charge someone with possession of a small amount of class A in and of itself . And how often do the police actually come across people in possession of class A in the course of inquiries into other offences that these people have committed to be able to fund their drug habit . I have no issue stopping locking drug addicts up for possession of their chosen drug . But we are still going to have to punish them for the crimes like robbery and burglary that they commit to fund that habit .

 

[krus_aragon]

I could go in certain pubs at home and walk out with 500 fags for a fraction of the retail price. OK they might not be Marloboro but I am sure they do the same job!

Ironically, the fakes might well be labelled that way...

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Very interesting, quite a cross section of people on this forum.
Including some quite experimental ones by the looks of things.

Roughly 2/1 ratio of "having partaken" to "never taken" - but I suspect a poll done on other forums might / will be much higher allowing for age profile and safety critical issues.

All I will say is - that as a student in the 1970's - choice was limited to one thing. You can probably work out what that was.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Yes but official sources have always been the way of sourcing the legal drugs . Prior to the explosion in gangs illegally importing counterfeit or duty free cigarettes into this country the only source of those items was the official taxed and regulated sources . And I wonder if you did a survey of smokers how many would be totally prepared to buy from shady sources if it meant the price was lower .

With illicit drugs people have always sourced them from the black market for obvious reason . Now if we did legalize drugs I am sure some people would happily revert to paying more for their drugs knowing that they have gone through some QC etc etc . However I imagine a lot of drug users would still get them from their normal source who can easily undercut the taxed , regulated quality controlled source from the government . Can you imagine some smack head begging on the street really caring where his drugs come from ? No I cannot either . Can you imagine some 17 year old that just wants to smoke weed suddenly thinking oh wait drugs are legal now I will have to wait until I am 18 then I can buy some ? No me either

From a liberal perspective I could not care less if drugs did happen to be legalized . I personally have no interest in taking illegal drugs mainly because of my job , but even if I didnt have a job that subjected me to random drug screening apart from cannabis which is relatively safe I cannot see myself wanting to take any other drug . But if other people want to that is upto them . As long as it is done in a way so that the income raised from taxation covers the costs to the NHS of the drug use so be it .

My only problem is with this myth that legalizing drugs would end the war on drugs we currently see . It would not , there would still have to be significant resources aimed at tackling the illegal production and supply of drugs . And for reasons outlined above that would be more prevalent than with the black market in counterfeit alcohol or tobacco .

As for the arguments to move towards a Portuguese model . Fair enough I have no issue with that although I question if we really should be looking at addition and drug use as a normal part of society . Either way are we that different from that now what with the extensive drug treatment programs available on the NHS , the fact that courts will now make drug treatment orders . I am pretty sure if I went to portugal and started selling smack on the streets I would still be picked up by the police . Even though the law in this country says possession of class A is a serious offence how many times do the police actually arrest and charge someone with possession of a small amount of class A in and of itself . And how often do the police actually come across people in possession of class A in the course of inquiries into other offences that these people have committed to be able to fund their drug habit . I have no issue stopping locking drug addicts up for possession of their chosen drug . But we are still going to have to punish them for the crimes like robbery and burglary that they commit to fund that habit .

So the issue with your second paragraph is that it assumes the profit margins of the drug dealers remains constant with legalisation - whilst 17 year olds etc. may well be prepared to continue buying drugs on the black market, as a group they just won't have the purchasing power to sustain the black market at its current level. Demand will fall off a cliff as most move to legal channels, wiping out profit margins entirely and causing illicit dealers to pull out of the market altogether as it becomes unaffordable for them.

It's the same reason we don't get dealers selling cigarettes to teenagers wholesale.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Roughly 2/1 ratio of "having partaken" to "never taken" - but I suspect a poll done on other forums might / will be much higher allowing for age profile and safety critical issues.

All I will say is - that as a student in the 1970's - choice was limited to one thing. You can probably work out what that was.

My time at University was up to 1966. Would you say that the choice in the decade prior to yours was the same?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I was 8 years old in 1966.

In 1976 the choice was Red Lebanese or Morrocan Gold for a fiver. (Hash) - quite decent. I started work in 1979 and that , was that.

 

[DaleCooper]

In 1976 the choice was Red Lebanese or Morrocan Gold for a fiver. (Hash)

What no grass? You could buy a carrier bag full for not much cash.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

What no grass? You could buy a carrier bag full for not much cash.

Not around South West Wales (in those days) - just hash.

When I were a lad ...etc etc...kids these days are spoiled for choice .....mutter mutter.

Some friends used to go mushroom picking though .....unfortunate impacts when after some refreshing tea , they went to the pictures for a Hammer House of Horrors production. They are all now respectable members of the middle classes , and have impeccable rose gardens. .

Beer , (if you can call it that) , was about 20p a pint. Awful stuff like Welsh Brewers .....

 

[Gutfright]

When I were a lad ...etc etc...kids these days are spoiled for choice .....mutter mutter.

I notice that nobody on the forum has tried the young person's party drug GHB.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I notice that nobody on the forum has tried the young person's party drug GHB.

No-one should be allowed access to gammahydroxybutyrate unril they can write it down 100 times without making a mistake?

 

[DaleCooper]

No-one should be allowed access to gammahydroxybutyrate unril they can write it down 100 times without making a mistake?

Whoever came up with that name must have been stoned.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whoever came up with that name must have been stoned.

Or gifted in composing chemical term word blocks...

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Whoever came up with that name must have been stoned.

So much easier to use terms like "weed" , "acid" etc.

 

[Blamethrower]

Illegal drugs offer a much higher cost-benefit ratio than alcohol or nicotine.

Assuming you take 4 pints to get mildly inebriated, that's £16 at £4 a pint. 1 joint of high quality weed will have a similar level of intoxication, as will a line of cocaine or mdma.

Anyone looking for a strong return on investment should all be taking illegal drugs

 

[DaleCooper]

I've just prepared a dose of my current drug of choice - ethanol
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They are all now respectable members of the middle classes , and have impeccable rose gardens.

Where did it all go wrong?

 

[backontrack]

What about caffeine?

 

[DaleCooper]

What about caffeine?

Far too dangerous, should be banned.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Illegal drugs offer a much higher cost-benefit ratio than alcohol or nicotine.

Assuming you take 4 pints to get mildly inebriated, that's £16 at £4 a pint. 1 joint of high quality weed will have a similar level of intoxication, as will a line of cocaine or mdma.

Anyone looking for a strong return on investment should all be taking illegal drugs

Fair to say that the economics have changed massively from my day - then -even semi-decent beer was say 25p a pint - so 4 pints for a £1 at 1976 levels where (as I said earlier) - hash was a £5 for about an eighth of a gram. Hash was relatively expensive.

Today - and a look at any website will tell you that the price of a bag of weed - assuming one does such shocking things is about £20. (I have no idea what the contents weight of a bag is - but assume the same - an eight of an ounce or 3.5g) - whereas I was astounded to pay £5 a pint the other day , and a glass of generic pub wine is £6.

Friends tell me that in Amsterdam you can get a decent joint in a coffeeshop- which made them very happy for a couple of hours and led to the demolition of a loaf of bread and a jar of Nutella was about £5. .......they also put the world to rights and watched "Family Guy" .....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've just prepared a dose of my current drug of choice - ethanol
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Where did it all go wrong?

Some have Spanish apartments with very sunny balconies

 

[DaleCooper]

Some have Spanish apartments with very sunny balconies

They just think they have.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

They just think they have.

One on a golf course development and the other in a pleasant non tourist town.

All paid for , am assured....

Slightly off track I know.

 

[Gutfright]

"Cake" is a new legal drug which first appeared in Prague. Cake, a yellow death bullet, is a bisturbile cranabolic amphetamoid. Its active ingredient, Dimesmeric Anderson Phosphate, is a psychoactive compound which stimulates the part of the brain called "Shatner's Bassoon".

Users, or "custard gannets" as the dealers call them are tricked in to using the drug under one of its many guises. Use your cheese box and say "no" if anyone offers you one of the following...

• Looney-toad Quack
• Russell Dust
• Chronic Basildon Doughnuts
• Joss Ackland's Spunky Backpack
• Bromicide
• Ponce-on-the-Heath
• Cool Thwacks and Charlie
• Argue Barmies
• Hattie Jacques Pretentious Cheese Wog

If anybody offers you any of this, chuck it back in their face.

 

[DaleCooper]

"Cake" is a new legal drug which first appeared in Prague. Cake, a yellow death bullet, is a bisturbile cranabolic amphetamoid. Its active ingredient, Dimesmeric Anderson Phosphate, is a psychoactive compound which stimulates the part of the brain called "Shatner's Bassoon".

Users, or "custard gannets" as the dealers call them are tricked in to using the drug under one of its many guises. Use your cheese box and say "no" if anyone offers you one of the following...

• Looney-toad Quack
• Russell Dust
• Chronic Basildon Doughnuts
• Joss Ackland's Spunky Backpack
• Bromicide
• Ponce-on-the-Heath
• Cool Thwacks and Charlie
• Argue Barmies
• Hattie Jacques Pretentious Cheese Wog

If anybody offers you any of this, chuck it back in their face.

Recommended by Chris Morris

 

[Cowley]

Must try and get some Cake when I get a chance. Or is it just Nonce sense?

 

[Harbornite]

"Cake" is a new legal drug which first appeared in Prague. Cake, a yellow death bullet, is a bisturbile cranabolic amphetamoid. Its active ingredient, Dimesmeric Anderson Phosphate, is a psychoactive compound which stimulates the part of the brain called "Shatner's Bassoon".

Users, or "custard gannets" as the dealers call them are tricked in to using the drug under one of its many guises. Use your cheese box and say "no" if anyone offers you one of the following...

• Looney-toad Quack
• Russell Dust
• Chronic Basildon Doughnuts
• Joss Ackland's Spunky Backpack
• Bromicide
• Ponce-on-the-Heath
• Cool Thwacks and Charlie
• Argue Barmies
• Hattie Jacques Pretentious Cheese Wog

If anybody offers you any of this, chuck it back in their face.

Stay brassy.

 

[muz379]

So the issue with your second paragraph is that it assumes the profit margins of the drug dealers remains constant with legalisation - whilst 17 year olds etc. may well be prepared to continue buying drugs on the black market, as a group they just won't have the purchasing power to sustain the black market at its current level. Demand will fall off a cliff as most move to legal channels, wiping out profit margins entirely and causing illicit dealers to pull out of the market altogether as it becomes unaffordable for them.

It's the same reason we don't get dealers selling cigarettes to teenagers wholesale.

No It does not assume that , I have actually considered as I said in that paragraph that some people may well shift to purchasing the regulated , taxed supply of drugs that the government could provide for . But given currently drug users have no issues sourcing their drugs from the black market your suggestion that most people will move to legal channels is merely speculation . And there is actually more evidence in my opinion to suggest that people would carry on purchasing their drugs from the black market . I mean if they have always done so and had no issue why would they suddenly pay more for the same thing ? Im pretty sure that the social utility of purchasing drugs in a way that ensures that tax is paid on them is the least of many drug users concerns .

As for the profit margins of drug dealers . lets not forget that their whole business model is based around earning illicit money that is not subject to the taxation systems that the majority of us are subjected to . So they could take a large dent in their takings without incurring any real hardship . The drug companies though who would win licenses to produce the drugs would have massive overheads and simply could not compete . Especially given as I have already addressed there is no motivation for drug users to pay any more than they have to for their drugs,especially not in your case of hard core addicts of certain drugs .

Look at heroin for example , heroin addicts can get a medical replica of their drug of choice FOC off the NHS . An inner city medical practice I used to go to had a prolific number of heroin addicts who would all loiter around the surrounding area trying to sell their methadone so they coud get their actual heroin off their dealer . These are the people who IMO are most failed by the current system , but who would also benefit precious little from a regulated and legalised drug market with big private companies producing and selling drugs for a profit . For me the dream of legalising regulating and taxing drugs is one for the pill popping , coke head bourgeois idiots that made my time at uni so eye opening .

I am sorry but I just do not accept that entering into a price war with drug dealers is going to be the way to combat the black market in drugs . These are people who make a living off the back of organized criminal activity , and they make a pretty penny doing it in some cases . They are not going to just go straight tomorrow and get Normal jobs . So even if hypothetically speaking we did manage to shut down their drug businesses . They are only going to move onto some other form of criminal activity and the same police resources are just going to have to be diverted there .

As for gangs selling cigarettes to 17 year olds . It may not be quite the same but I know of certain areas of the city I live in where gangs go round selling illegally imported duty free tobacco to the corner shops for them to sell onto their locals .

I also know in the city I live in the council are often doing undercover operations to catch shops selling cigs , alcohol and tobacco to people under the legal age . In fact I know of 2 shops close by to my parents house that have been caught multiple times doing this .

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I also know in the city I live in the council are often doing undercover operations to catch shops selling cigs , alcohol and tobacco to people under the legal age . In fact I know of 2 shops close by to my parents house that have been caught multiple times doing this .

Those shops that have been caught "multiple times" should have been closed down. Are there no bylaws let alone more severe sanctions upon those owning these shops that can be brought into force?

 

[TheKnightWho]

No It does not assume that , I have actually considered as I said in that paragraph that some people may well shift to purchasing the regulated , taxed supply of drugs that the government could provide for . But given currently drug users have no issues sourcing their drugs from the black market your suggestion that most people will move to legal channels is merely speculation . And there is actually more evidence in my opinion to suggest that people would carry on purchasing their drugs from the black market . I mean if they have always done so and had no issue why would they suddenly pay more for the same thing ? Im pretty sure that the social utility of purchasing drugs in a way that ensures that tax is paid on them is the least of many drug users concerns .

As for the profit margins of drug dealers . lets not forget that their whole business model is based around earning illicit money that is not subject to the taxation systems that the majority of us are subjected to . So they could take a large dent in their takings without incurring any real hardship . The drug companies though who would win licenses to produce the drugs would have massive overheads and simply could not compete . Especially given as I have already addressed there is no motivation for drug users to pay any more than they have to for their drugs,especially not in your case of hard core addicts of certain drugs .

Look at heroin for example , heroin addicts can get a medical replica of their drug of choice FOC off the NHS . An inner city medical practice I used to go to had a prolific number of heroin addicts who would all loiter around the surrounding area trying to sell their methadone so they coud get their actual heroin off their dealer . These are the people who IMO are most failed by the current system , but who would also benefit precious little from a regulated and legalised drug market with big private companies producing and selling drugs for a profit . For me the dream of legalising regulating and taxing drugs is one for the pill popping , coke head bourgeois idiots that made my time at uni so eye opening .

I am sorry but I just do not accept that entering into a price war with drug dealers is going to be the way to combat the black market in drugs . These are people who make a living off the back of organized criminal activity , and they make a pretty penny doing it in some cases . They are not going to just go straight tomorrow and get Normal jobs . So even if hypothetically speaking we did manage to shut down their drug businesses . They are only going to move onto some other form of criminal activity and the same police resources are just going to have to be diverted there .

As for gangs selling cigarettes to 17 year olds . It may not be quite the same but I know of certain areas of the city I live in where gangs go round selling illegally imported duty free tobacco to the corner shops for them to sell onto their locals .

I also know in the city I live in the council are often doing undercover operations to catch shops selling cigs , alcohol and tobacco to people under the legal age . In fact I know of 2 shops close by to my parents house that have been caught multiple times doing this .

It's not merely speculation given we have considerable evidence from other countries that have done so. None of what you predict actually bears up to evidence.