Which St Albans station?

[bengolding]

I arrived at Euston yesterday at 08:35 only to hear tannoy announcements that access to the underground was restricted due to overcrowding below. Customers were being re-directed to Euston Square ot Kings Cross. This seems to be a chronic problem at Euston in the am peak, so you might want to factor this if opting for the Watford Junction route. I don't relish your decision - either a packed FCC train from St Albans (even when I did this in First Class, it was rammed) or a packed LM train from Watford Junction and a ridiculously packed Victoria Line!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Staff pass is not valid north of Potters Bar on the 84.

TfL and LU staff passes ARE valid throughout route 84, non-elderly persons freedom passes are only valid to Potters Bar and I think there may be time restrcitions on non Herts residents elederly passes on the St Albans - Potters Bar section.

 

[Deerfold]

TfL and LU staff passes ARE valid throughout route 84, non-elderly persons freedom passes are only valid to Potters Bar and I think there may be time restrcitions on non Herts residents elederly passes on the St Albans - Potters Bar section.

Odd, that's not what I've been told in the past.

Unfortunately I no longer have access to the faretable for this route which used to make it clear.

For public fares :

TfL Bus Passes, Travelcards, Saver Tickets and Oyster pay as you go may be used between
Potters Bar Cranborne Road and New Barnet.

and the staff pass conditions say:

You may use your Staff Oyster card on the following services:-

London’s Bus services displaying the red or white roundel on the front and any other bus service where the TfL farescale applies (except for any special services).

I'm not quite sure why staff passes would have a different area of validity.

I'm not saying they wouldn't ever be accepted but I wouldn't like to depend on it.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I'm not quite sure why staff passes would have a different area of validity.

I'm not saying they wouldn't ever be accepted but I wouldn't like to depend on it.

It's one of those 'historical' things. Any staff who wish to re-affirm this can check on TfL 'Source'. TfL staff passes are valid on the 84 and the 142 and 258 in their entirety.
There are a number of these anomalies. Off the top of my head I think that they are also valid on the 81 to Slough and a few other services well outside of the GLA area.
For staff who entered service prior to 1970 they are also entitled to travel on a host of former London Country routes as well. Though I doubt there are many of those left who wouldn't qualify for an Elderly Person's pass.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Usefull - to my shame after 20+ years in St Albans , I have never used the 84 - which is one of the oldest red bus routes running out to the sticks.

Further comment re West Hampstead options - off peak there is a cracking fast off peak service which zips you there in 30 mins , every 30 mins. Plus the new station opens in December (no more cold waits I hope in a shelter !)
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Sorry - zips you there in 12 mins !

 

[bb21]

It's one of those 'historical' things. Any staff who wish to re-affirm this can check on TfL 'Source'. TfL staff passes are valid on the 84 and the 142 and 258 in their entirety.

The 84 is different to the 142/258 though as Day Travelcards are valid over the entirety of these two routes whereas they are only valid to Potters Bar on the 84.

I'm not questioning what you're saying, just pointing out the differences in your two examples.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

The 84 is different to the 142/258 though as Day Travelcards are valid over the entirety of these two routes whereas they are only valid to Potters Bar on the 84.

I'm not questioning what you're saying, just pointing out the differences in your two examples.

The 84 is a bit of an anomaly but there are a number of old 'central' routes like that - some of the services to Staines as well... the 116 or 117 I think.
Though strangely enough it used to be valid on the 242 in Herts but no longer is.

 

[Bald Rick]

I used the 0744 semi fast this morning for the first time in a few months and good grief it was busy. Everyone got a seat from St Albans but there weren't many spare. Wish it was still a St Albans starter like the old days

The good news is that when the 0738 fast goes 12car from December, some of the folk who get the semi fast to get a seat (or just get on a train) may be tempted back to the fasts. And as Chief Planner says, the new West Hampstead station will make the interchange even easier.

Ps - I've used my staff card on the 84 in the last couple of months.

 

[W-on-Sea]

The 84 is NOT a TfL-contracted route though, unlike all the other routes mentioned... In response to the OP, I'd go for the FCC option. If the Abbey line goes wrong, as a one-train, single-track service, it can go seriously wrong. On the other route there are usually more-or-less acceptable alternative trains available in the event of delays or cancelations

 

[Deerfold]

Usefull - to my shame after 20+ years in St Albans , I have never used the 84 - which is one of the oldest red bus routes running out to the sticks.

It's run by red buses - but it doesn't have to be as it's not a TfL contracted route.
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The 84 is a bit of an anomaly but there are a number of old 'central' routes like that - some of the services to Staines as well... the 116 or 117 I think.
Though strangely enough it used to be valid on the 242 in Herts but no longer is.

The 81 and 117 are TfL contracted routes - I use my staff pass on the 81 to/from Slough a couple of times a year. The 84 is a commercial route with a fares agreement with TfL south of Potters Bar.

The 242 is a mixture of commercial and Hertfordhire CC subised journeys. Perhaps at one time it was an LT route and the pass would have been valid (there are actually a small number of staff passes valid on it but you'd need to have been employed by London Buses in 1986 to get one of those).

 

[Statto]

If the op uses the 84 & needs to arrive in Central London around 8:30am he'd have to catch the 7:03am from St Albans & that arrives in New Barnet at 8:06am, & maybe he'd have to catch the earlier 84 dep at 6:33am from St Albans, & the next bus arrive from St Albans at New Barnet is around 8:30am. Also the 84 timetable changes for School Holidays. http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/084.htm

I'd stick with the train, but maybe changing at West Hampstead
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Even going to High Barnet your looking at an hour on the 84 from St Albans then 20-30 min on the Tube, providing theres no delays.

 

[lonogrol]

I don't travel by bus so will not be taking up that option, but thanks for suggesting anyway.

I'm moving in over the next few days so my first commute will be on Monday morning, so will let everyone know how it works. It takes a while to get my season ticket through work sorted so will try each route for a few days, but I most likely will be using First Capital Connect as tax implications make the cost difference much smaller than I outlined in original post (thanks Deerfold for pointing this out).

 

[Mutant Lemming]

.... TfL staff validity on the whole of the 84 was an anomaly but the 84 has now been grouped with the 242 and it is another of those anomalies that has been ironed out.

http://www.metroline.co.uk/uploads/pages/upload-20111007021212-Route 84 and 242 Folder.pdf

as per NOTE: There may be changes to the validity of Transport for London tickets on route 84 during the currency of this leaflet. (dated August 2011).

So at least this thread doesn't appear to be repsonsible for the change.

It was never the same once they took the double deckers off it.

 

[philjo]

I don't know about staff passes but for normal tickets London Travelcards & Oyster PAYG on the 84 are valid from New Barnet to Potters Bar Cranborne Road. Travelcards used to be valid out to the White Hart at South Mimms until the 298 was cut back from South Mimms & diverted up Cranborne Road in 2002. the 398 that replaced the South Mimms section of the 298 is operated by Sullivan's - it was originally a HCC contract but is now a commercial service.
I think that the travelcard boundary is set at Cranborne Road as it is also served by the 298. I know that Sullivan's are taking over the 298 route from Arriva in February but assume it is still as a TfL contract service.
The 84 is a commercial service though with some TfL agreeement for the Potters Bar to New Barnet Section.

I agree that the new buses on the 84 seem slower than the old double deckers (probably only having one door does not help at peak periods). They also tend to run late especially in the late afternoons due to getting caugth in the St Albans schools traffic & if the M25 decides to have a bad day.

The 242 evening service is now operated by Sullivan's & on Sundays by Centrebus - during these periods Metroline 7 day tickets cannot be used on the 242.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I don't know about staff passes but for normal tickets London Travelcards & Oyster PAYG on the 84 are valid from New Barnet to Potters Bar Cranborne Road. Travelcards used to be valid out to the White Hart at South Mimms until the 298 was cut back from South Mimms & diverted up Cranborne Road in 2002. the 398 that replaced the South Mimms section of the 298 is operated by Sullivan's - it was originally a HCC contract but is now a commercial service.
I think that the travelcard boundary is set at Cranborne Road as it is also served by the 298. I know that Sullivan's are taking over the 298 route from Arriva in February but assume it is still as a TfL contract service.
The 84 is a commercial service though with some TfL agreeement for the Potters Bar to New Barnet Section.

I agree that the new buses on the 84 seem slower than the old double deckers (probably only having one door does not help at peak periods). They also tend to run late especially in the late afternoons due to getting caugth in the St Albans schools traffic & if the M25 decides to have a bad day.

The 242 evening service is now operated by Sullivan's & on Sundays by Centrebus - during these periods Metroline 7 day tickets cannot be used on the 242.

There seem to be quite a few retrograde steps with the cross boundary Herts services recently. It seemed to start with any TfL Oystercards and passes being banned from the 614 even within Greater London. Will have to keep a check on the 107, 142, 258 & 292 at this rate.

 

[Deerfold]

There seem to be quite a few retrograde steps with the cross boundary Herts services recently. It seemed to start with any TfL Oystercards and passes being banned from the 614 even within Greater London. Will have to keep a check on the 107, 142, 258 & 292 at this rate.

The 614 was not a TfL contract route - and presumably Unobus decided that they didn't get enough from Tfl tickets to continue accepting them. It's a relitively new route so didn't accept them for long.

All the other routes are so should be fine for the near future.
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I think that the travelcard boundary is set at Cranborne Road as it is also served by the 298. I know that Sullivan's are taking over the 298 route from Arriva in February but assume it is still as a TfL contract service.

Yes, this is a new TfL contract. There's no change to the route or frequency but new single deckers will be running on it.

The 242 evening service is now operated by Sullivan's & on Sundays by Centrebus - during these periods Metroline 7 day tickets cannot be used on the 242.

Ah, the wonders of an integrated network. (You can use intalink network tickets on both but they're not cheap.)

 

[jon0844]

I saw that on the timetable at Potters Bar and thought it odd that two different operators run the same route at different times (and, I believe a slightly different route - continuing on to Hatfield on the Sunday).

I guess that this extension to Hatfield is because another bus from Potters Bar (610?) doesn't run - but it must confuse people wanting to plan journeys.