Which Summer Saturday holiday trains do you think will be running in the next few years?

[geoffk]

This is a thread about summer Saturday holiday trains, such as they are, in the 21st Century. I'm old enough to remember the huge number of additional trains which ran to and from the West Country in the 1960s and, even in 1980, I remember that a Saturday spent at Yatton was still an interesting experience.

In the 2019 timetable I found the following trains running only on Summer Saturdays (and a few on Sundays), almost all serving Newquay or Scarborough. Not all were additional trains, many being extensions of normal weekday services, e.g. from Plymouth to Newquay.

TPE
Saturdays 1st July until 31st August
0925, 1125 and 1725 York - Scarborough (reliefs to the main Liverpool service)
1027, 1225 and 1825 Scarborough - York

XC
Saturdays 25th May until 7th September 2019
0731 Plymouth - Newquay
0705 Manchester Picc - Newquay
0632 Dundee - Newquay via Leeds
0940 Newquay - Dundee via Leeds
1535 Newquay - Manchester Picc
1900 Newquay - Plymouth

Sundays 19th May until 8th September
0920 Plymouth - Newquay
1138 Newquay - Edinburgh via Leeds

EMT
Saturdays 25th May until 7th September
0633 St. Pancras - Scarborough via Derby, Sheffield, Doncaster
1703 Scarborough - St. Pancras via Doncaster, Sheffield, Derby

GWR
Saturdays 25th May until 7th September
0903 Plymouth - Newquay
0934 Exeter St. Davids - Newquay
1135 Paddington - Newquay via Westbury
1128 Newquay – Paddington via Westbury
1322 Newquay - Newton Abbot
1728 Newquay - Paddington via Westbury

Sundays 19th May until 8th September
1003 Paddington - Newquay via Westbury
1559 Newquay - Paddington via Westbury

GA
Liverpool Street - Great Yarmouth; no through trains in 2019. Previously the electric loco was dragged to/from Norwich.

Not sure if there was an additional service to Skegness.

Once Covid is out of the way, what pattern does anyone think will emerge and will bi-mode trains make it likely that more destinations will be served?

 

[221129]

XC
Saturdays 25th May until 7th September 2019
0731 Plymouth - Newquay
0705 Manchester Picc - Newquay
0632 Dundee - Newquay via Leeds
0940 Newquay - Dundee via Leeds
1535 Newquay - Manchester Picc
1900 Newquay - Plymouth

Don't forget the additional trains down to Paignton.

 

[adrock1976]

I recall that in the last few years, SWT have ran to Weymouth and Corfe Castle via Yeovil Pen Mill on Summer Saturdays and Sundays.

I am unsure of the exact timings though.

 

[tommy2215]

Didn't GWR run a daily train to Pembroke Dock from Paddington on summer Saturdays? I know a couple of EMR Skeggy trains extended to Derby also. Its a shame the decline of summer Saturday specials. Understandable, but a shame nonetheless.

 

[PHILIPE]

Didn't GWR run a daily train to Pembroke Dock from Paddington on summer Saturdays? I know a couple of EMR Skeggy trains extended to Derby also. Its a shame the decline of summer Saturday specials. Understandable, but a shame nonetheless.

Yes. Saturdays only but not 2020 due COVID

 

[OliverH68]

SouthEastern also run Summer Saturday trains from London Cannon Street to Ramsgate via Woolwich. Basically 2 trains in the morning & evening were glorified extended Dartford stoppers as they pretty much stopped all stations from London - Dartford.

These certainly ran last summer I believe - quite useful for when the lockdown restrictions were eased!

 

[class26]

This is a thread about summer Saturday holiday trains, such as they are, in the 21st Century. I'm old enough to remember the huge number of additional trains which ran to and from the West Country in the 1960s and, even in 1980, I remember that a Saturday spent at Yatton was still an interesting experience.

In the 2019 timetable I found the following trains running only on Summer Saturdays (and a few on Sundays), almost all serving Newquay or Scarborough. Not all were additional trains, many being extensions of normal weekday services, e.g. from Plymouth to Newquay.

TPE
Saturdays 1st July until 31st August
0925, 1125 and 1725 York - Scarborough (reliefs to the main Liverpool service)
1027, 1225 and 1825 Scarborough - York

XC
Saturdays 25th May until 7th September 2019
0731 Plymouth - Newquay
0705 Manchester Picc - Newquay
0632 Dundee - Newquay via Leeds
0940 Newquay - Dundee via Leeds
1535 Newquay - Manchester Picc
1900 Newquay - Plymouth

Sundays 19th May until 8th September
0920 Plymouth - Newquay
1138 Newquay - Edinburgh via Leeds

EMT
Saturdays 25th May until 7th September
0633 St. Pancras - Scarborough via Derby, Sheffield, Doncaster
1703 Scarborough - St. Pancras via Doncaster, Sheffield, Derby

GWR
Saturdays 25th May until 7th September
0903 Plymouth - Newquay
0934 Exeter St. Davids - Newquay
1135 Paddington - Newquay via Westbury
1128 Newquay – Paddington via Westbury
1322 Newquay - Newton Abbot
1728 Newquay - Paddington via Westbury

Sundays 19th May until 8th September
1003 Paddington - Newquay via Westbury
1559 Newquay - Paddington via Westbury

GA
Liverpool Street - Great Yarmouth; no through trains in 2019. Previously the electric loco was dragged to/from Norwich.

Not sure if there was an additional service to Skegness.

Once Covid is out of the way, what pattern does anyone think will emerge and will bi-mode trains make it likely that more destinations will be served?

Usually 2 HST`s every Saturday to Skegness. They run approx an hour apart. One from Nottingham, the other from Derby
Apparently the new 800 series will be cleared for Skegness for the future.

 

[55002]

Exeter used to be great place in the 80s on a Saturday

 

[43055]

Yes. Saturdays only but not 2020 due COVID

The Skegness HST's did run last year.

 

[class26]

The Skegness HST's did run last year.

They certainly did, here,s a pic going through Swineshead in August. Sorry no date, you will have to take my word for it.

 

[route101]

Summer Saturdays XC from Glasgow to Paignton.

 

[43055]

They certainly did, here,s a pic going through Swineshead in August. Sorry no date, you will have to take my word for it.

According to the gen thread on Facebook 43305 worked 1S01/1S02 on the 15th August with 43295 and set NL12.

 

[Turbo004]

Arriva Trains Wales / TfW ran Class 67 hauled services until 2019 on Summer Saturdays between Crewe and Holyhead. These ran normally in August providing there were enough train crew to provide the services. It will be interesting to see some form of additional services run in 2021 or 2022.

 

[cambsy]

Nowadays the Holiday trains, to the South West particularly, are just extensions of normal services and run normal clock face stops, gone are the interesting stop patterns and haulage, if memory is correct it was south of Birmingham where the stop patterns got interesting, North of Birmingham I think was pretty major stations like Derby and Sheffield were stopped at, but south of Birmingham you would get trains as far as Taunton-Exeter non stop, maybe even further.

I remember stop patterns of Birmingham-Cheltenham-Bristol Temple Meads.Birmingham-Bristol Temple Meads etc, one of my favourites though not that interesting haulage as HST, was the Leeds overnight to Newquay, which stopped after Birmingham, Birmingham-Bristol Temple Meads-Pymoth-Par-Newquay, then worked north again with same stops to Birmingham, it was always a good fast run and quiet over night, then there was some good haulage, I had a 45 Peak once, several 50’s, 47’s, there was also a Mk3 Pullman West coast set which went to Paignton with a pair of 31’s, never did it though, thing is nowadays there’s just no interest at all either haulage or stops wise.

 

[43096]

Apparently the new 800 series will be cleared for Skegness for the future.

What’s the solution this year?

 

[Iskra]

What’s the solution this year?

If I was guessing I'd say 6 car Sprinter formations, if anything. Although they did hire in TNT 66's once so maybe they could do that again, but it seems a bit daft if they have any spare Sprinters due to cascades.

I believe the EMR Scarborough service has ended too now.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

What’s the solution this year?

EMR are working to sub hire some additional DMUs for the Skegness services next summer, I understand a number of positive discussions have been had with some other TOCs where commuting demand has been lowered by COVID.

 

[43096]

EMR are working to sub hire some additional DMUs for the Skegness services next summer, I understand a number of positive discussions have been had with some other TOCs where commuting demand has been lowered by COVID.

Good that they're looking at it. If we have restrictions released for the summer, but international travel still in the awkward category, there will likely be heavy demand to go away in the UK. Why people would want to go to Skegness is unfathomable, but some seem to like it!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Before the IET revolution the GWR summer Saturday enhancements were along the following lines (down direction shown only);

0644 Bristol-Penzance additional HST
0728 Swansea-Pembroke Dock additional HST
0900 Plymouth-Newquay additional HST
0703 Paddington-Penzance additional, replacing a Plymouth-Penzance local service in Cornwall
0806 Paddington-Exeter St David’s semi fast extended to Paignton
0845 Paddington-Swansea extended to Pembroke Dock
0906 Paddington-Plymouth extended to Penzance, replacing a local service in Cornwall
1035 Paddington-Paignton semi-fast additional
1106 Paddington-Plymouth run non-stop Reading-Taunton, extended to Penzance vice a local service
1135 Paddington-Newquay limited stop additional (Atlantic Coast Express)
1235 Paddington-Paignton semi-fast additional
1306 Paddington-Penzance run non-stop Reading-Taunton

5x Paddington-Bristol TM round trips extended to/from Weston SM using marginal time / unit step-ups in the underlying turnarounds at Bristol TM.

Note the 0700 ex-Penzance ran to Newquay until about 2015, with a connecting unit to Penzance. This arrangement was reversed after shifting passenger trends meant Newquay declined as a rail-served destination. The additional train was effectively a relief to the 0730 Padd-Penzance via Bristol which was an exceptionally popular service and is long-missed.

Similar changes in the Up direction with a focus on providing maximum seats out of Cornwall in the morning and capacity out of Paignton in the afternoon. Slightly confusingly the Cornish demand peaked in the morning in both directions whereas Torbay demand was tidally westbound in the AM and eastbound in the PM, no doubt reflecting the emphasis of daytrip travel to Paignton. Highlights included;

1130 Newquay-Paddington limited stop additional (The Atlantic Coast Express)
1308 / 1448 / 1700 Paignton-Paddington additionals
1730 Newquay-Paddington
Various up Plymouths starting from Penzance
1000 Pembroke-Paddington, picking up the 1228 Swansea-Padd slot
1450 Pembroke-Paddington, picking up the 1728 Swansea-Padd slot

The problem train was usually the 1000 Penzance-Paddington which peaked with about 200% load factor by Tiverton Parkway. The solution was eventually to provide a relief service 25 minutes ahead and share the stopping patterns.

This overall plan was revised annually to suit the latest underlying timetable changes and fleet requirements etc. What was planned for Summer 2020 - and aborted - was a logical evolution of these enhancements taking the new timetables and fleet into account.

An additional morning down and evening up working on the Weymouth line, latterly with an HST set. The 1510 ex-Weymouth was retimed to 1610 to provide a better train for beach goers. I’m not joking when I say that there was a separate plan held in Control for rainy Saturdays - the afternoon unit diagrams had to be reshuffled at short notice to cope with an early surge of returning pax on the 1610 vice 1730 and 1830 departures for Bristol.

Quite a lot of work each year!

 

[DorkingMain]

I recall that in the last few years, SWT have ran to Weymouth and Corfe Castle via Yeovil Pen Mill on Summer Saturdays and Sundays.

I am unsure of the exact timings though.

I did wonder to myself who those services were actually supposed to be for. They started in Basingstoke (rather than at Waterloo), went as far as Yeovil Junction, reversed towards Yeovil Pen Mill, reversed towards Weymouth, reversed towards Wareham, and then finally reversed towards Corfe Castle. The overall journey time appeared to be ridiculous and rather begged the question why a Corfe Castle - Wareham shuttle that connected with the fasts from Waterloo wasn't used instead.

 

[47827]

Nowadays the Holiday trains, to the South West particularly, are just extensions of normal services and run normal clock face stops, gone are the interesting stop patterns and haulage, if memory is correct it was south of Birmingham where the stop patterns got interesting, North of Birmingham I think was pretty major stations like Derby and Sheffield were stopped at, but south of Birmingham you would get trains as far as Taunton-Exeter non stop, maybe even further.

I remember stop patterns of Birmingham-Cheltenham-Bristol Temple Meads.Birmingham-Bristol Temple Meads etc, one of my favourites though not that interesting haulage as HST, was the Leeds overnight to Newquay, which stopped after Birmingham, Birmingham-Bristol Temple Meads-Pymoth-Par-Newquay, then worked north again with same stops to Birmingham, it was always a good fast run and quiet over night, then there was some good haulage, I had a 45 Peak once, several 50’s, 47’s, there was also a Mk3 Pullman West coast set which went to Paignton with a pair of 31’s, never did it though, thing is nowadays there’s just no interest at all either haulage or stops wise.

V26 in the 90s while it still went Penzance was a cracker. Normalish via Crewe to New St then a sit followed by a fast run to Plymouth (only calling at Bristol TM en route). Then semi fast serving several Cornish stations arriving Penzance 0730 ish. The most memorable occasion I recall was an eccentric long-retired Birmingham guard rostered from New St to Plymouth (who was a good friend too). He was in a proper mess physically that night, not being used to nights anymore, and was fly catching in the guards van on numerous occasions. Into Plymouth and the CDL wasn't released as he was snoring away in the bay of 4 opposite myself with his shoes off and feet up in the air. The van door was also locked. The forward Plymouth Crew subsequently had to hammer on the glass to get him up! Wasn't the last and only incident of this nature around that time but the most memorable.

By the time I was old enough to travel by myself (albeit these days it would probably be considered too young) summer Saturday trains were in decline and slowly heading towards the thin offering we have seen in more recent years as the railway was being prepped to sell off to private operators and many unusual routes under BR couldn't be resourced much longer. But extra overnights and an odd extra weekend route were still available.

In the first post there's mention of Liverpool Street to Gt Yarmouth. Those finished following the intended end to Anglian diesel thunderbird locos supplied by DRS and the subsequent switch to through wired 37s on local trains the year after which I think was planned a good way in advance. It was a surprise they lasted until the mid part of the last decade considering the hassle in sending push pull hauled rakes past Norwich. For a time in the 2000s a through working resumed on weekdays with a morning plus evening run (when it wasn't a bus past Norwich).

Lets not forget Skegness briefly had some hauled sets back in the summer holidays hired in from and crewed by third parties, although they were somewhat shortlived and hst sets then covered for over a decade after that until last year.

 

[dk1]

The brief through weekday Yarmouth-Liverpool St was a franchise commitment by NXEA starting in 2004. It was never well loaded & I seem to recall dropped after the TOC agreed to run an all year hourly local service to Yarmouth on Sundays instead. The Saturday through trains as you say where all involved with the Thunderbird hire & again service enhancements for better connections replaced them.

 

[Mag_seven]

1130 Newquay-Paddington limited stop additional (The Atlantic Coast Express)
1308 / 1448 / 1700 Paignton-Paddington additionals
1730 Newquay-Paddington
Various up Plymouths starting from Penzance

Led to the unusual situation of three departures from Exeter SD to Paddington all within minutes of one another just after 14.00

1. A Penance - Padd service calling at Taunton and Reading only
2. A Paignton - Padd service calling at most intermediates (Tiverton, Castle Cary, Westbury, Pewsey etc)
3. A Newquay - Padd service calling at Reading only

 

[30907]

I did wonder to myself who those services were actually supposed to be for. They started in Basingstoke (rather than at Waterloo), went as far as Yeovil Junction, reversed towards Yeovil Pen Mill, reversed towards Weymouth, reversed towards Wareham, and then finally reversed towards Corfe Castle. The overall journey time appeared to be ridiculous and rather begged the question why a Corfe Castle - Wareham shuttle that connected with the fasts from Waterloo wasn't used instead.

It was for Salisbury etc to Weymouth traffic, Corfe being a bonus during the layover.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Led to the unusual situation of three departures from Exeter SD to Paddington all within minutes of one another just after 14.00

1. A Penance - Padd service calling at Taunton and Reading only
2. A Paignton - Padd service calling at most intermediates (Tiverton, Castle Cary, Westbury, Pewsey etc)
3. A Newquay - Padd service calling at Reading only

Yes it did, and unusual situation of the first train from Newton Abbot being the third to arrive into London (admittedly the Newquay went through non-stop.) Overtaken at Dawlish Warren and at Taunton.

 

[Grecian 1998]

GWR also run an additional train on summer Saturdays from Bristol to Weymouth. It was run by HSTs from 2014 to 2018 I think and was run with 67s in 2009. Not sure if it ran in 2020, but in 2019 I think it was 2 X 166s.

Despite omitting a few stations it had a slower schedule than other services when run with HSTs as they're limited to 40mph between Yeovil and Dorchester for some reason, even though I'm not aware anything else is. Ruling line-speed is 75mph (although there are numerous slower sections), so it made a significant difference.

 

[Iskra]

EMR have confirmed that on the Skegness route; the current summer only services will now run throughout the year as normal timetabled services. This is in the 2021 timetable consultation.

And they also confirm the Scarborough service is removed.