White Hart Lane/Tottenham North

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AlanFry1

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I'm not sure what exactly is going on? The stadium is now under construction and on track for opening in August 2018, but the station redevelopment which s essential for the 60000 football fans and 30000 new homes being built in the area is nowhere near under construction yet? Anyone know what exactly is going on?
And is it true it is being renamed to tottenham north? very nice and chic if so :D
 
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Townsend Hook

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I'm not sure what exactly is going on? The stadium is now under construction and on track for opening in August 2018, but the station redevelopment which s essential for the 60000 football fans and 30000 new homes being built in the area is nowhere near under construction yet? Anyone know what exactly is going on?
And is it true it is being renamed to tottenham north? very nice and chic if so :D

I would be surprised if it was being renamed. If you're getting the train to the stadium and don't know the area a station with the same name makes it pretty clear where you need to be going.
 

450.emu

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I would have thought it would keep its name seeing as that is the street the station is on :roll: Haringey Council plan to re-model the street as well, so it might be moved a few metres. North Tottenham would do, I think the Naming Rights only apply to the Stadium, and in this age of sponsorship it would be a hassle for TOCs to keep renaming the station as every deal changes, (i.e if one year it's The Sam's Chicken Arena, 3 years later, the Aldi Stadium :roll: ) it's not exactly the Bernebau in Madrid :roll: A couple of stops up the line is Silver Street, it's a little walk from the station but is not a problem as it's just the name of the general area.
 

Bald Rick

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I'm not sure what exactly is going on? The stadium is now under construction and on track for opening in August 2018, but the station redevelopment which s essential for the 60000 football fans and 30000 new homes being built in the area is nowhere near under construction yet? Anyone know what exactly is going on?
And is it true it is being renamed to tottenham north? very nice and chic if so :D

There isn't a station redevelopment at WHL. Neither are there 30,000 new homes planned in the area.

Tottenham Hale station is being redeveloped, extensively, with work starting later this year I believe.

All this, and more, available on the website of the London Borough of Haringey. Including the complete detail of the transport /travels plans for the new stadium.
 

Hackneyite

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Haringey's master plan, drawn up by Arup, is for 3600 homes on the Love Lane estate. adjacent to WHL. The station project has gone very quiet the past 18 months but funnily enough I heard just last week that the first demolitions will begin this year of the old British Queen pub and the garages to the south of the station. So that may be significant.

There is also a master plan for the estate in Northumberland Park- 4,600 homes.

Not forgetting the already approved 571 as part of the Spurs site!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Update: S106 was signed yesterday, Spurs and Haringey to progress the White Hart Lane Station Access Improvement.

Still to be costed!
 

Old Yard Dog

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With the tube stations miles away, White Hart Lane station has always struck me as inadequate for THFC, particularly for night games when frequencies are lower.

The last time I went there, for a midweek FA Cup game where the crowd was well below capacity, I had to get a taxi to Manor House as the train queues were horrendous and I couldn't even find a bus as they seemed to have been diverted.

Public transport access to our major football grounds is very poor in comparison with those on the continent like Stade de France, Feyenoord, Ajax, Borussia Dortmund, Schalke, Hertha Berlin, Augsburg, Heysel, Real Madrid, etc.
 

Busaholic

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With the tube stations miles away, White Hart Lane station has always struck me as inadequate for THFC, particularly for night games when frequencies are lower.

The last time I went there, for a midweek FA Cup game where the crowd was well below capacity, I had to get a taxi to Manor House as the train queues were horrendous and I couldn't even find a bus as they seemed to have been diverted.

Public transport access to our major football grounds is very poor in comparison with those on the continent like Stade de France, Feyenoord, Ajax, Borussia Dortmund, Schalke, Hertha Berlin, Augsburg, Heysel, Real Madrid, etc.

Pre- Victoria Line opening, there used to be a very regular non-stop special bus service from Manor House station on the Picc Line to Spurs ground: before that, it was a trolleybus service. Very efficient it was too, my brother used to use it.
 

HowardGWR

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Pre- Victoria Line opening, there used to be a very regular non-stop special bus service from Manor House station on the Picc Line to Spurs ground: before that, it was a trolleybus service. Very efficient it was too, my brother used to use it.
I was hoping someone would post this, thanks. As a visitor to London, I went to see a Spurs game in the 60s and Jimmy Greaves scored one of his 'go down on one hand and volley' efforts - stupendous, although Spurs fans next to me said it was not unusual. I think the opponents were Burnley.

The point is I remember having to go a long way from the tube station by bus and now you have reminded me which one. Thanks again.
 

Bald Rick

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With the tube stations miles away, White Hart Lane station has always struck me as inadequate for THFC, particularly for night games when frequencies are lower.

The last time I went there, for a midweek FA Cup game where the crowd was well below capacity, I had to get a taxi to Manor House as the train queues were horrendous and I couldn't even find a bus as they seemed to have been diverted.

That doesn't tally with my experience.

Firstly, LO and GA put on additional services and additional stops to serve White Hart Lane and Northumberland Park. There are at least 6 trains an hour serving each from the London direction pre match and to London post match. Far better than the normal late evening service. Check real time trains for 17 March (next evening home game) for evidence.

Secondly, the three most recent times I went to White Hart lane for evening games, the queue for the trains was about 10 minutes; this being around 20 minutes after final whistle so arguably the peak.

Thirdly, it's 1.3 miles from the stadium to Tottenham Hale for the tube. Hardly a stretch; less than a 20 minute walk.
 

Busaholic

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I was hoping someone would post this, thanks. As a visitor to London, I went to see a Spurs game in the 60s and Jimmy Greaves scored one of his 'go down on one hand and volley' efforts - stupendous, although Spurs fans next to me said it was not unusual. I think the opponents were Burnley.

The point is I remember having to go a long way from the tube station by bus and now you have reminded me which one. Thanks again.

My pleasure.
 

TheoBald

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There isn't a station redevelopment at WHL. Neither are there 30,000 new homes planned in the area.

Tottenham Hale station is being redeveloped, extensively, with work starting later this year I believe.

All this, and more, available on the website of the London Borough of Haringey. Including the complete detail of the transport /travels plans for the new stadium.

I was rather disappointed to read this as I understood that Arup had produced a favoured option for a new WHL and that last November Boris agreed to forward £3m to TFL towards a new station with a further £1.8m towards the stadium approach and station realm. Do you have a link or further detail as to why this has been abandoned?
With thanks from a fellow member of the folicularly challenged club.
 

Old Yard Dog

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That doesn't tally with my experience.

Firstly, LO and GA put on additional services and additional stops to serve White Hart Lane and Northumberland Park. There are at least 6 trains an hour serving each from the London direction pre match and to London post match. Far better than the normal late evening service. Check real time trains for 17 March (next evening home game) for evidence.

Secondly, the three most recent times I went to White Hart lane for evening games, the queue for the trains was about 10 minutes; this being around 20 minutes after final whistle so arguably the peak.

Thirdly, it's 1.3 miles from the stadium to Tottenham Hale for the tube. Hardly a stretch; less than a 20 minute walk.

I wish I'd known that. I checked on the National Rail website the day before the game and there was no mention of additional trains. Maybe they couldn't give times as the game could have gone to extra time and penalties.

It is interesting to study how far supporters are willing to walk to get to and from major football grounds. On Northern line services in Liverpool, Everton supporters often shun the SoccerBus service from Sandhills, preferring to walk about a mile from Kirkdale. Liverpool supporters, on the other hand, generally take the bus as it's an extra half mile to walk from Kirkdale.

Many Manchester City supporters will often walk over a mile to Piccadilly rather than queue up for trams (or buses) both of which sometimes get blocked by road traffic. And Manchester United, Liverpool and Stoke fans often walk two miles or so into their respective city centres rather than use public transport, the latter being able to buy Staffordshire oatcakes from a canal narrowboat en route.

My personal limit is about a mile for major grounds but much less than that for the lower divisions and non-league.
 

Bald Rick

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I was rather disappointed to read this as I understood that Arup had produced a favoured option for a new WHL and that last November Boris agreed to forward £3m to TFL towards a new station with a further £1.8m towards the stadium approach and station realm. Do you have a link or further detail as to why this has been abandoned?
With thanks from a fellow member of the folicularly challenged club.

My poor wording.

There are plans to do something at WHL, but I wouldn't call it a station redevelopment. It is more about the approaches to the station / public realm, which by definition is not part of the station. IIRC, works at the station itself are a couple of new stair cases and a bigger ticket office. No idea how it is progressing though.
 

Mikey C

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I wish I'd known that. I checked on the National Rail website the day before the game and there was no mention of additional trains. Maybe they couldn't give times as the game could have gone to extra time and penalties.

It is interesting to study how far supporters are willing to walk to get to and from major football grounds. On Northern line services in Liverpool, Everton supporters often shun the SoccerBus service from Sandhills, preferring to walk about a mile from Kirkdale. Liverpool supporters, on the other hand, generally take the bus as it's an extra half mile to walk from Kirkdale.

Many Manchester City supporters will often walk over a mile to Piccadilly rather than queue up for trams (or buses) both of which sometimes get blocked by road traffic. And Manchester United, Liverpool and Stoke fans often walk two miles or so into their respective city centres rather than use public transport, the latter being able to buy Staffordshire oatcakes from a canal narrowboat en route.

My personal limit is about a mile for major grounds but much less than that for the lower divisions and non-league.

My impressions is that a lot of people walk back to Seven Sisters for the Tube, it's a direct walk and lots of pubs (and kebab shops!) on the way!

The large Northern grounds generally have very poor public transport in comparison to the London grounds. My impression is that a lot more people drive to games
 

plcd1

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My impressions is that a lot of people walk back to Seven Sisters for the Tube, it's a direct walk and lots of pubs (and kebab shops!) on the way!

The large Northern grounds generally have very poor public transport in comparison to the London grounds. My impression is that a lot more people drive to games

As TfL now divert all bus services away from WHL there is little alternative but to walk to / from Seven Sisters when there is a football match. This is now the standard TfL approach when there are football games at many stadiums - bus services stop serving the immediate area. This places extra strain on rail / tube services and forces legions of people to fill local streets.
 

AlanFry1

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As TfL now divert all bus services away from WHL there is little alternative but to walk to / from Seven Sisters when there is a football match. This is now the standard TfL approach when there are football games at many stadiums - bus services stop serving the immediate area. This places extra strain on rail / tube services and forces legions of people to fill local streets.

I've noticed on recent weekends despite their being NO TFL rail nor Greater Anglia services via GEML from LST, LO seem not to want to run many trains, cancelling 2tph of the 4tph to chingford in order to provide a weak but coapable 6tph via white hart lane? If line capacity is a problem (Which I doubt 10tph at least isn't), Crossrail 2 is the only option to save white hart lane, instead of the silly and time wasting route via wood green and turnpike lane?
 

Kite159

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I've noticed on recent weekends despite their being NO TFL rail nor Greater Anglia services via GEML from LST, LO seem not to want to run many trains, cancelling 2tph of the 4tph to chingford in order to provide a weak but coapable 6tph via white hart lane? If line capacity is a problem (Which I doubt 10tph at least isn't), Crossrail 2 is the only option to save white hart lane, instead of the silly and time wasting route via wood green and turnpike lane?

But why should the people using the Chingford line services suffer due to some kickball game?
 

87015

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But why should the people using the Chingford line services suffer due to some kickball game?

Greater good. A service with 1000 people on it is much better use of resources, when no more available, than one with 100 people on it. It's only a handful of trips that are withdrawn and the next one is fifteen minutes behind, plus other local routes available for much of the Chingford line.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've noticed on recent weekends despite their being NO TFL rail nor Greater Anglia services via GEML from LST, LO seem not to want to run many trains, cancelling 2tph of the 4tph to chingford in order to provide a weak but coapable 6tph via white hart lane? If line capacity is a problem (Which I doubt 10tph at least isn't), Crossrail 2 is the only option to save white hart lane, instead of the silly and time wasting route via wood green and turnpike lane?

GE shut = Ilford depot blocked = no stock available for full football service
 

AlanFry1

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Greater good. A service with 1000 people on it is much better use of resources, when no more available, than one with 100 people on it. It's only a handful of trips that are withdrawn and the next one is fifteen minutes behind, plus other local routes available for much of the Chingford line.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


GE shut = Ilford depot blocked = no stock available for full football service

That makes sense. Could store some trains surely at chingford country end though. Glad to know its engineering works and not through choice.
 

450.emu

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As TfL now divert all bus services away from WHL there is little alternative but to walk to / from Seven Sisters when there is a football match. This is now the standard TfL approach when there are football games at many stadiums - bus services stop serving the immediate area. This places extra strain on rail / tube services and forces legions of people to fill local streets.
Very true - though Haringey Council have put in a new parking zone in areas you used to be able to park in, such as along Lordship Lane and some of the roads near to the Stadium - there are a pocket of roads near Bruce Grove station that are not in a permit zone (Evelyn, Newlyn, Hartham, Pembury Roads) that are still Permit free (I used to live on Hartham and never bothered to move my car when the football was on) - though I cannot see where they are going to get spaces for more cars to park unless they are planning a massive car park somewhere :roll: A lot of the local schools and community centres make a mint from offering Football Parking from a tenner a time.

I'm just curious where all this money's coming from, seeing as Haringey were last in the papers for a poorly thought out, costly rebranding last year, and struggle to clean the streets :?
 

Hackneyite

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450.emu
Sorry it's a bit late at night but I don't see the relationship of your "where's all the money coming from" to the rest of your post. Please elucidate.
 

TheoBald

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Timescale of station development imminent?

Amongst their latest financial accounts, Spurs have announced that they are expecting detail of the timescale for the WHL station development within the next month. They anticipate timescale for the linked(!) public realm development.

As I understand the position the original Arup preferred option is being tweaked to include retaining the current (but improved) stairs at the north end for use on match days (in addition to the new stairs/lifts).

For those interested I believe the intention is to demolish the garages, open up the 21 arches - two for pedestrian access, four for other station facilities, 15 for retail, provide three new stairs from the new central station entrance, lifts to each platform and a new enclosed station entrance with ticket gates. I thought the pub was staying but Hackneyite has advised us this too is about to be demolished. Any updates/corrections would be welcome.
 

AlanFry1

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Timescale of station development imminent?

Amongst their latest financial accounts, Spurs have announced that they are expecting detail of the timescale for the WHL station development within the next month. They anticipate timescale for the linked(!) public realm development.

As I understand the position the original Arup preferred option is being tweaked to include retaining the current (but improved) stairs at the north end for use on match days (in addition to the new stairs/lifts).

For those interested I believe the intention is to demolish the garages, open up the 21 arches - two for pedestrian access, four for other station facilities, 15 for retail, provide three new stairs from the new central station entrance, lifts to each platform and a new enclosed station entrance with ticket gates. I thought the pub was staying but Hackneyite has advised us this too is about to be demolished. Any updates/corrections would be welcome.

Station construction work is to start next month - The British Queen pub and garages are to be demolished, and construction work is to begin. There is also going to be a new turnback facility constructed to the north of the station to increase service levels. The new station, not arches but station itself should be ready after two years. They are also removing the brick walls and replacing them with glass as seen with Haggerston and Hoxton stations.
 

AlanFry1

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I can confirm that construction has officially started, well the demolishing of local businesses occupying the station site. You can see the old entrance/exit! So exciting!
 

Hackneyite

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A somewhat sketchy image of the intended new station has appeared on Haringey's Planning Recruitment page. Sorry, I made a complete hash of trying to upload it but it's relatively easy to find!

The original intention was to design it similarly to the new Deptford station, but if this image is anyway accurate WHL will be somewhat bigger.
 

AlanFry1

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A somewhat sketchy image of the intended new station has appeared on Haringey's Planning Recruitment page. Sorry, I made a complete hash of trying to upload it but it's relatively easy to find!

The original intention was to design it similarly to the new Deptford station, but if this image is anyway accurate WHL will be somewhat bigger.

Hi, I couldn't find this? Hopefully that's true, Deptford seems to have a lot of wasted space within the use of its own arches.
 

AlanFry1

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http://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/haringey_planning_recruitment.pdf The drawing is rough but seems to reflect the current thinking- ie moving the station building further south.

I too think its a case of rough drawing - I know station gardens are being built on the love lane British queen pub site soon so I guess that it could too be a case of big building. Going past tomorrow so It'll be interesting to see whether construction has started.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Harringey Council and TFL have confirmed that the station is to be starting construction in late Summer, which probably fits in with the high amount of engineering works to take place at weekends which will be needed.

Landholt and Brown are supporting TFL with this.
 

TheoBald

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The planning application for the new WHL station can now be found on Haringey's site. Start date of "late 2017" with a build timescale of 15 months - ready 7 months after Spurs move in to their new stadium if all goes well!
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Public transport access to our major football grounds is very poor in comparison with those on the continent like Stade de France, Feyenoord, Ajax, Borussia Dortmund, Schalke, Hertha Berlin, Augsburg, Heysel, Real Madrid, etc.

I would agree with you, I seem to recall there was or maybe still is a station for Watford Football Club, perhaps on the High Street or Croxley Branch, which may be connected to the Met & Jct in the not too distant future.

i also seem to remember going on a train from Manchester Piccadilly to Liverpool Lime Street many year ago and saw a platform for one of the Manchester football clubs, not sure if it's still there and or still used?
 
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