Who do you think should win the upcoming Thameslink franchise?

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Sparks169

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There's alot of discussion about who could potentially win the new franchise, but haven't seen many opinions on who should or people would prefer and maybe why?

I would say Go-Ahead but that's me being biased ;)
 
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Greeby

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If Go-Ahead win it, will they be allowed to carry out the FCC/Southern/part of Southeastern merger earlier? Given that they'd have control of it all at that point
 

Sparks169

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If Go-Ahead win it, will they be allowed to carry out the FCC/Southern/part of Southeastern merger earlier? Given that they'd have control of it all at that point
I wouldn't imagine there is a set time frame for when this could happen, and AFAIK Go-Ahead would be better placed to have this done the fastest so I don't see why not.

I Imagine it would simply be a case of how long it would take to transfer the management of things over to the winning company and get the bases sorted before the extras such as the part-Southeastern extension could be completed. And considering Go-Ahead currently manages the largest area of the soon-to-be Thameslink franchise already, dont see why it wouldn't be quicker.
 

Aictos

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First
Abellio
Govia

Thing is a TOC is only as good as it's management/employees, look at Midland Mainline vs Central Trains.

Would it have been fair for NX to be told not to bid for any franchises because of what Central Trains was like ignoring the success that was Midland Mainline?

As much as I like First to continue until the TL programme is finally finished and the new rolling stock is bedded in, I would be interested in seeing what Abellio has to offer.
 

SprinterMan

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Go Ahead would be nice, so TL/SO/SE can finally merge.
Stagecoach would be nice, seeing a tie-up with SWT and maybe Bedford-London-Wimbledon-Southampton/Bournemouth/Poole/Weymouth would be nice ;).
Abellio would be ok, but would probably inexplicably withdraw half the fleet to cut costs.
FCC would be ok, maybe they would finally repaint the 319/2.
NX aren't bidding are they?
 

fgwrich

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First - Ok, so its the current and rather taunted First Capital Connect, would any other operater fair any better in running a very heavily used service through the heart of a building site? And at least First managed to seccure extra rolling stock in the form of the (planned) Electrostars from Southern, and the 13 Extra Class 321s for Kings Cross Express services...We Shall See...

Go Ahead maybe...But i wasnt that impressed with Thameslink before, and whilst their performance on Southern hasnt been too bad, London Midland and SouthEastern spring to mind - especially SouthEasterns ability to handle a large franchise...

Abellio - Yes no, still undecided as i find Northern a pretty poor franchise(i know it's a no growth franchise but what would have happend if it was someone like First who'd got that?) We'll see how GAGA Beds in first.

Stagecoach - Longshot, would they be any better than First?

And MTR - Again, i think they're quite a longshot in this race, however they do have quite a considerable amount of Metro experiance, so id put them ahead of Govia on this one, despite not actually having much involvement in any franchises bar LOROL.

By the way, here is the actual bidders list:

•Abellio Thameslink Limited (NV Nederlandse Spoorwegen)
•First Thameslink Limited (FirstGroup plc)
•Govia Thameslink Railway Limited (Go-Ahead Group plc and Keolis SA)
•MTR Corporation (Thameslink) Limited (MTR Corporation Limited)
•Stagecoach Thameslink Trains Limited (Stagecoach Group plc)
 

David

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Abellio - Yes no, still undecided as i find Northern a pretty poor franchise(i know it's a no growth franchise but what would have happend if it was someone like First who'd got that?) We'll see how GAGA Beds in first.
I think Abellio are doing a bloody good job with Northern to say it was tendered on a no growth basis. How many extra units have they managed to get, and how many new services are they running with said units?

Compare that with ATW which was also tendered on a no growth basis ....
 

Class377/5

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First - Ok, so its the current and rather taunted First Capital Connect, would any other operater fair any better in running a very heavily used service through the heart of a building site? And at least First managed to seccure extra rolling stock in the form of the (planned) Electrostars from Southern, and the 13 Extra Class 321s for Kings Cross Express services...We Shall See...

Go Ahead maybe...But i wasnt that impressed with Thameslink before, and whilst their performance on Southern hasnt been too bad, London Midland and SouthEastern spring to mind - especially SouthEasterns ability to handle a large franchise...

Abellio - Yes no, still undecided as i find Northern a pretty poor franchise(i know it's a no growth franchise but what would have happend if it was someone like First who'd got that?) We'll see how GAGA Beds in first.

Stagecoach - Longshot, would they be any better than First?

And MTR - Again, i think they're quite a longshot in this race, however they do have quite a considerable amount of Metro experiance, so id put them ahead of Govia on this one, despite not actually having much involvement in any franchises bar LOROL.

By the way, here is the actual bidders list:

•Abellio Thameslink Limited (NV Nederlandse Spoorwegen)
•First Thameslink Limited (FirstGroup plc)
•Govia Thameslink Railway Limited (Go-Ahead Group plc and Keolis SA)
•MTR Corporation (Thameslink) Limited (MTR Corporation Limited)
•Stagecoach Thameslink Trains Limited (Stagecoach Group plc)
What do you mean by planned Electrostars? FCC been running the 377/5 now for just over three years. The new 377/6 aren't ever coming over to FCC as they're dual voltage units.

As for MTR, they've achieved a bigger merger before and know about building on an operational railway. One to watch as a possible surprise in the making.

As for others, remember a high percentage of the problems faced by FCC (TL) have not been ones under its control so I doubt that Govia or anyone would have better figures really.
 

asylumxl

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I don't care what logo is on my train to work, aslong as it gets me there.

The people on the ground will remain the same anyway and I find the vast majority to be friendly and competent.
 

WCMLaddict

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I'm a fan of Abellio as they got some good experience from both Mersey and Northern. They can now spread their wings ;) with Thameslink as I don't think they have much chance for VT.

DfT has sent a very strong and simple message with the Greater Anglia franchise. It is all about the money!
 

swt_passenger

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What do you mean by planned Electrostars? FCC been running the 377/5 now for just over three years.
I think he meant that FCC did well to persuade the DfT to divert for Thameslink use the 23 x 377/5s that were 'planned for SN', ie ordered by SN. How much of that is down to FCC is questionable though. I detect that the DfT organised it all in a bit of a panic, knowing that the overall Thameslink rolling stock project was not keeping up with the line's capacity requirements.

The new 377/6 aren't ever coming over to FCC as they're dual voltage units.
Don't you mean they're not dual voltage units?
 

tbtc

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Without seeing their actual bids it is of course rather harder to make a decision...
My thoughts exactly.

Maybe the question should be, with all the disruption that there will be on Thameslink, which company would want to damage their reputation by taking the franchise on?

For all the talk of "Operator X should take it on because they have adjacent franchises and can therefore integrate them better" or "Operator X shouldn't be allowed to take it on because they have adjacent franchises and there's some spurious competition argument" I really think that it depends on what the bid secures. Until we know that, any preference for one TOC over another is just Fanboy stuff.
 

Malderon

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I'm not sure it matters too much who wins. I want to see Govia running the whole lot really but I was under the (perhaps incorrect) impression that this was a relatively short franchise to oversee the Thameslink Programme completion / Franchise Merger and then once all that was finished there would be a longer franchise for the actual operation of the combined services. 7 year franchise when the merger I think is only completed in 2015 means that its only 3 years as an integrated franchise.
 

Class377/5

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I think he meant that FCC did well to persuade the DfT to divert for Thameslink use the 23 x 377/5s that were 'planned for SN', ie ordered by SN. How much of that is down to FCC is questionable though. I detect that the DfT organised it all in a bit of a panic, knowing that the overall Thameslink rolling stock project was not keeping up with the line's capacity requirements.

Don't you mean they're not dual voltage units?
Yes I did mean not!

I re-read Roger Ford's July 2008 article on the new Thameslink rolling stock. How different real life turned out to be, but in the long run Southern will benefit more by the delays overall.

Don't think much is down to FCC. More to do with saving face over KO0. However KO1 wasn't as great as it should have been.
 

387star

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First - Ok, so its the current and rather taunted First Capital Connect, would any other operater fair any better in running a very heavily used service through the heart of a building site? And at least First managed to seccure extra rolling stock in the form of the (planned) Electrostars from Southern, and the 13 Extra Class 321s for Kings Cross Express services...We Shall See...

Go Ahead maybe...But i wasnt that impressed with Thameslink before, and whilst their performance on Southern hasnt been too bad, London Midland and SouthEastern spring to mind - especially SouthEasterns ability to handle a large franchise...

Abellio - Yes no, still undecided as i find Northern a pretty poor franchise(i know it's a no growth franchise but what would have happend if it was someone like First who'd got that?) We'll see how GAGA Beds in first.

Stagecoach - Longshot, would they be any better than First?

And MTR - Again, i think they're quite a longshot in this race, however they do have quite a considerable amount of Metro experiance, so id put them ahead of Govia on this one, despite not actually having much involvement in any franchises bar LOROL.

By the way, here is the actual bidders list:

•Abellio Thameslink Limited (NV Nederlandse Spoorwegen)
•First Thameslink Limited (FirstGroup plc)
•Govia Thameslink Railway Limited (Go-Ahead Group plc and Keolis SA)
•MTR Corporation (Thameslink) Limited (MTR Corporation Limited)
•Stagecoach Thameslink Trains Limited (Stagecoach Group plc)
You seem very pro First ;) Were FNW any better though?
 

Electrostar

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Will the winning (or if this is a short term let, the subsequent) franchise be required to reinstate the Thameslink brand? I can't help but think with all the investment and the opening of Crossrail it makes sense certainly for services running through the core.
 

HH

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There will be problems facing whoever takes on the franchise. FCC have a very competent team in much of this area - have Southern?

Non-incumbents must be seen as outsiders IMO. Incumbents who make it this far, with premium paying TOCs, usually go on to win (SWT, Southern, GNER, FGW).
 

ushawk

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Due to something the post i made was deleted - basically id prefer Govia to get it and Stagecoach as my 2nd choice - as they have both done decent jobs with Southern and SWT/EMT respectively (yes Govia have SE too but they are very poor, but we'll ignore that).

Would be better if either First or Govia were to win it though, as they already hold half of the current franchise each, there shouldnt be as many teething problems, as say a new company.
 
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