Who do you think will win the new Greater Western franchise?

[The Ham]

6 coaches - four standard, 1 buffet, 1 first. Sorted, maybe some longer sets on the busiest services. I'm sure the Waterloo - Exeter is well overdue an upgrade, there was talk in the late 90s about converting it to an IC railway to compete with the GWML. I remember getting a SWT newsletter detailing all the plans, we could've had Class 175/180 style trains running to Exeter by now. Most of the stops further west would've been ommited by the London trains and provided by a 'stopping service' (probably a 150 back then, now if done most likely a 159). Now seems like the best time to consider it again regardless of who gets the GW franchise. The FGW HSTs would be refurbished with power doors, ending up with an interior similar to the EMT 158s. The 159s can only go up to 90mph and wouldn't be able to take advantage of any speed improvements, so they'd have to go elsewhere. A Waterloo- Weymouth HST via Yeovil service with speed improvements may be even quicker than the mainline. If Chiltern and Virgin can compete with similar timings using IC trains on London - Birmingham, GW and SW can too.

A couple of points:
The stopping service would have to not run into Waterloo or be after Crossrail 2 (regional) if that ever gets built. That would likely mean starting/ending at Salisbury or Basingstoke, unless there was a link to a branch line from the country end that it could run along (which, other than going to Reading, I can not think of any before Woking and that's where a whole load of additional trains join the Mainline). Either way I would suggest that the passenger numbers on the stopping service would be low.

The other way of doing it would be electrify to Salisbury, extend the (EMU) stoppers between London and Basingstoke through to Salisbury, retain the existing Exeter Service and replace the current Salisbury service with IC125's and run them fast (London, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury and Yeovil) to Exeter. I would suggest that there was enough demand to not call at any other stations between Basingstoke & London as that would improve journey times and lighten some of the loadings on the other services out of Basingstoke. However that would require a whole load of new cabling and trains running "under the wires" for a lot more than at present.

To Run Waterloo to Weymouth Via Yeovil would require a new junction at Yeovil missing out the current stations or for trains to reverse at Yeovil, which would remove any benefit from the new service.

 

[HH]

also the revenue growth will be nothing like that of WC, most of the major growth in the current franchise is in the West on services that probably make very little profit even though they are all rammed to the gunwhales!

IEP. New trains should generate revenue. Bidders might be doing things with the rolling stock too. There's room to improve Yield and even revenue protection. Marketing is low currently due to being in Rev Supp as well.

 

[tbtc]

Thameslink you have to put Go Ahead as favourites. They beat FCC in just about every metric, and they will want to put one on the board. They comfortably won Southern last time round

You say "comfortably won", Virgin would say "massively overbid"

 

[jon0844]

Veolia is mostly used to dealing in rubish and sewers in the UK!

Ah, so they would be ideal for c2c then...

 

[HH]

You say "comfortably won", Virgin would say "massively overbid"

Hardly. Their actual revenue has outstripped what they bid. Which begs the question of how other bidders managed to bid even lower...

 

[RPI]

FGW just announced to staff that First are "in it to win it" via the internal weekly newsletter.

 

[HH]

FGW just announced to staff that First are "in it to win it" via the internal weekly newsletter.

Well it's hardly likely that they're in it to finish last...

 

[RPI]

Well it's hardly likely that they're in it to finish last...

Haha yes, although my post isn't as daft as seems, First were being accused of not wanting to bid to heavilly for GW now they have won WC, hence the circular that was distributed.

 

[Woody]

Given that First appear to be the coalition Governments new "Best friend in the rail industry",say no more nod nod wink wink,I fully expect First to retain the Great Western franchise.In reality a great many business deals are effectively decided "off market".For instance where I live in the far South West I was reliably informed that a certain local bus company had a "contact" in the local County Council who would anytime when there was bidding for a local bus route contract waited until all the bids were in and then the "contact" would inform "his" bus company of the bids and they would simply outbid them.Of course it could not happen in our high stakes publically funded privatised railway could it?
The bigger the stakes the bigger the temptation to cheap,simples innit.As the song goes "What a wonderful world".

 

[Retorus]

Gotta love some of the conspiracy theories going on.

 

[David10]

Given that First appear to be the coalition Governments new "Best friend in the rail industry",say no more nod nod wink wink,I fully expect First to retain the Great Western franchise.

Of course the West Coast franchise was awarded as a wink, wink deal, nothing to do with the fact they offered to pay £700 million over in premiums.:roll: Another armchair expert without a clue how the process works.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Everyone seems to say First are getting a lot of contract work and franchises in this country, but they forget when National Express had far more rail franchises, and also when they had basically every transport and coach contract for every major event in the country.

 

[jon0844]

Someone had to win the franchise so presumably whatever company won did something illegal. Thanks to the expenses scandal and MPs taking bribes, it seems plausible that everything is corrupt but it's unlikely in the case of tenders which will be open for scrutiny by all.

Had Virgin kept WCML then could we not argue that they merely won because they already had it and hadn't done anything wrong? Oh wait, that's exactly what the VT supporters have been saying - which would have been totally corrupt and illegal.

 

[Oliver]

say no more nod nod wink wink

Woody, we're all dying to know your secret inside information. Don't keep us guessing.

 

[jon0844]

You do know that National Express did a deal with the Government on the ECML? The deal was to give back the keys and let Elaine Holt take over. That would save NX paying the huge premiums and everyone would agree to have a go at them and make them lose the NXEA gig too.

In return for playing along, Elaine would do her bit and then get a job with them later. The Government will then ensure NX will win no matter what other bids come in.

Sir Richard told me this himself!! That's why Virgin isn't bidding because it's all decided by David Cameron and the other Tory cronies. It's all a big conspiracy you see, but it's not actually the Tories. Look closer and you'll see it is all run by Tom Cruise and other Scientologists.

 

[Woody]

Woody, we're all dying to know your secret inside information. Don't keep us guessing.

There are some pretty green people out there if you think all is above board in the world of business and politics and railways.Thats why the global economic system melted down in 2008 and why the world is in a financial mess today.Trouble is it usually takes a few decades until the people involved have come and gone before the truth in any situation usually surfaces by which time its history and nobody really cares and thats the long financial game the Government is playing with railway franchising.
Sorry I cant be more specific than that

 

[David10]

Sorry I cant be more specific than that

Or in other words you have no evidence on which to back up your conspiracy theories.

 

[Woody]

Or in other words you have no evidence on which to back up your conspiracy theories.

As I said just give it enough time as John Majors botched rail privatisation has shown and the truth in any situation eventually emerges.Even THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE of the House of Commons is to investigate the controversial Intercity West Coast bid so I will leave it to them to decide whats gone on or not.

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2012/08/24-mps-to-scrutinise-west-coast.html

 

[jimm]

As I said just give it enough time as John Majors botched rail privatisation has shown and the truth in any situation eventually emerges.Even THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE of the House of Commons is to investigate the controversial Intercity West Coast bid so I will leave it to them to decide whats gone on or not.

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2012/08/24-mps-to-scrutinise-west-coast.html

Not THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE? Are they related to this lot?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tym0MObFpTI

 

[jon0844]

I think my Scientology 'theory' was more accurate than what I'm now reading here!

Competitive tendering has been around for years. Perhaps nobody really knew that as Virgin wasn't bidding! Sealed bids are eventually made public and people can see who won and why. Anyone that thinks there were secret deals done might want to ask why First would bid so much more if they were tipped to off?

Bidding £1 more might seem rather suspicious but THAT much more? Come on!

 

[Pen Mill]

BBC Spotlight has jsut announced that the Great Western franchise has been put on hold as a result of the West Coast announcements.

Here's the view from :This is Exeter"
http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/Exeter-London-train-deal-hold/story-17026548-detail/story.html

 

[ainsworth74]

The official word that the competition has been suspended:

Paused all the other outstanding franchise competitions (Great Western, Essex Thameside and Thameslink) pending the independent reviews which are designed to ensure future competitions are robust and deliver best value for passengers and tax payers.

Source

 

[jon0844]

I think the GWML franchise should now be given to the operator that gets the most votes on this thread. Sod the bidding process - far too flawed!

Obviously, we need to add Virgin to the above poll so they can get everyone to vote for them and win...

 

[Zoe]

Obviously, we need to add Virgin to the above poll so they can get everyone to vote for them and win...

I expect the franchise would have to be changed to High Speed Services only though to get Virgin to bid. I don't think class 143s would fit the Virgin image well.

 

[The Ham]

I think the GWML franchise should now be given to the operator that gets the most votes on this thread. Sod the bidding process - far too flawed!

Obviously, we need to add Virgin to the above poll so they can get everyone to vote for them and win...

Maybe the Dft should just draw up the short list, the bidders then put forward their 8 key points & 2 "surprise" features of their bid and then we vote on the outcome.

That way, it will not solely be on the most amount of money that is paid to the government (although it will have a bearing on enough people that no company will want to offer too much less than another company), but will have to look at providing good service and good services.

Some of the surprise features could include things like First offered on the West Coast where certain ticket prices were to drop.

 

[jon0844]

Someone call Simon Cowell, now!

 

[Drsatan]

Or could someone call Dirty Des and ask him for his verdict?

*grabs coat*

 

[Lampshade]

I expect the franchise would have to be changed to High Speed Services only though to get Virgin to bid. I don't think class 143s would fit the Virgin image well.

They could run them under a sub-brand like Central did with Citylink (or indeed as Southern do with Gatwick Express); there's nothing to say they have to use 'Virgin' in the sub-brand, so they could probably get away with calling the local services 'WestCountry Local' or something.

 

[Temple Meads]

I don't think class 143s would fit the Virgin image well.

If I was better at photoshop I'd do a mock up of a 143 in Virgin livery

 

[anthony263]

If I was better at photoshop I'd do a mock up of a 143 in Virgin livery

I am just waiting for such a image to appear on the internet in the next few days.

Anyway as I said before I still put my money on First getting this new GW franchise especially if Virgin win the new West Coast Franchise.

Of course can we see First giving up without a fight?