Who poisoned the Skripals?

[Masboroughlad]

So, who gave the Novichock in Salisbury?

Russia?
The UK?
America?

I feel more and more uncomfortable with Trump's stance on Russia.....

Would be an easy way to make Russia look bad. Smoke screen for.his way into power.

Add in Syria and that's the final diversion away from Trump.

I hope that I am wrong; but I think the whole sorry mess MAY belong with Trump.

 

[gingerheid]

Putin actually said they would kill people like him. Why should it be a surprise that they would try?

 

[SilentGrade]

but I think the whole sorry mess MAY belong with Trump.

what exactly is the evidence for this? We have Putin waging not only a cyber war on the west but also claiming people like the Skripals would be killed, and a massive concerted propaganda effort reminiscent of the early Cold War. But of course it's the fault of Mr Trump/Theresa May/Shadow State/etc.

I'm no fan of Mr Trump, but suggesting he had something to do with Salisbury does nothing but give credence to conspiracies which purposefully seek to distort the truth.

 

[AlterEgo]

Harry Kane has claimed responsibility.

 

[DarloRich]

It is sad to see the Russian disinformation campaign so effective. sigh. They flood the net with their numerous possible explanations via troll farms, friendly alt media influences, anti western groups, stupid politicians and, frankly, useful idiots to spread their guff. They then give airtime on Russia Today and other media outlets to selected bonkers "experts" who will happily help spread that disinformation.

it seems they are winning that information battle as people keep lapping it up. Putin must be laughing.

 

[bb21]

Harry Kane has claimed responsibility.

Ahead of ISIS?

 

[DarloRich]

Harry Kane has claimed responsibility.

he would be in to much of a fluffery buffery to do it. Dele Ali is your man. Wrong un.

 

[najaB]

So, who gave the Novichock in Salisbury?

Russia?
The UK?
America?

All the signs point towards Russia - they have form for this kind of thing. The UK has no reason to do it and while it's not inconceivable that it was a CIA job it (a) runs counter to America's interests; not to mention that (b) there's no 'plausible deniability' route if they were to be found out. They'd be much more likely to poison one of their own citizens in Russia.

 

[Tetchytyke]

it seems they are winning that information battle as people keep lapping it up. Putin must be laughing.

This, this, and a thousand times this.

MH17 was blown up by a Russian rocket that could only have been fired by the Russian military, yet many people seem happy enough to believe it was the Ukrainians doing it to themselves/NATO as a false flag operation/Interflora to boost ailing profits.

Litvinenko was poisoned with polonium but, again, it could have been the Mafia.

The radiation expert who discovered that Litvinenko was poisoned with polonium "stabbed himself to death with two knives" shortly after returning from Russia, even though the police don't know how anyone could stay alive long enough to inflict the injuries that he received. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/top-scientist-who-discovered-litvinenko-9325403

The radiation expert who discovered the poison that killed Alexander Litvinenko "committed suicide" by stabbing himself repeatedly with two knives months after a trip to Russia, a coroner ruled.

Matthew Puncher, 46, bled to death at his home after receiving multiple stab wounds across his body from two kitchen knives, an inquest heard.

A pathologist said he could not completely exclude the possibility that someone else had been involved in the death of the father, but came to the conclusion that the injuries were self-inflicted.

But one detective claimed she didn't think he could have done so much damage to himself without falling unconscious.

Of course it's bloody Russia.

 

[najaB]

Of course it's bloody Russia.

All the evidence points to Russia and there's no credible evidence to support it being anyone else. I'm not ruling out that it could be another power but I'd need to see some pretty compelling evidence.

 

[Bromley boy]

Litvinenko was poisoned with polonium but, again, it could have been the Mafia.

As I recall the Litvinenko case was categorically was proved to be Russia (or as close as it could be: radiation traced on the aircraft that had flown the poisoners into the U.K. from Russia; CCTV of them arriving and leaving; lots of compelling evidence as I recall). Of course Russia has refused attempts to extradite them.

Ok you could say it was all faked but you then start to go down the tin foil hat road*... Perhaps Litvinenko never really existed at all the whole thing was made up by the media to sell newspapers etc. Where does it end?!

*the road this thread is in danger of straying down.

 

[DarloRich]

*the road this thread is in danger of straying down.

Straying down? This thread ( and an increasingly credulous society) is current skipping down tin foil hat road for an appointment with the tin foil milliners just of Tin Foil Avenue

"stabbed himself to death with two knives"

The deceased, a long standing critic of Mr Putin, was found dead in his own home. He had been stabbed. A spokesmen for the Russian embassy, Mr I. Maisky, said that "in a terrible domestic accident the deceased tripped and fell against his own knife a mere 57 times. Any suggestion that Russia had anything to do with this tragic death is a slanderous accusation..................

 

[WatcherZero]

The independent investigation by the OPCW gathering their own blood and environmental samples from the Skiprals and police officer and testing them in 4 independent labs around the world maintaining full chain of custody of the samples has come to the same conclusion as the governments investigation.

 

[Harbornite]

Russia.

 

[Requeststop]

I know many Russians. They are the most delightful, friendly personable people. They are wonderful hospitable people. Their government and military are different though. My Russian friends know that power corrupts them.

The Russian Military did it, with the approval of their government.

 

[Master29]

Who exactly are the OPCW if not a quango spreading pro western propoganda. We`re never going to get to the truth. This "All the signs point to Russia" is people echoing what they`ve been told. Yes Russia have propaganda but good god us and the US are champions at it so how can anyone say for sure without knowing the facts.

It could equally have been mossad. the CIA, MI6 or the Russian secret service as anyone else. Believe what you want.

 

[najaB]

Who exactly are the OPCW if not a quango spreading pro western propoganda.

You do realise that Russia is a founding member of OPCW?

It could equally have been mossad. the CIA, MI6 or the Russian secret service as anyone else. Believe what you want.

As noted above, it would be much easier and much more advantageous to the US or UK to poison one of their own citizens in Russia. Mossad doesn't have a dog in this fight.

 

[Bromley boy]

It could equally have been mossad. the CIA, MI6 or the Russian secret service as anyone else. Believe what you want.

So you believe Vladimir Putin, do you? I note from the Syria thread you also appear to believe the recent chemical attack on civilians didn’t happen.

Tin foil hat nonsense.

 

[Master29]

So you believe Vladimir Putin, do you? I note from the Syria thread you also appear to believe the recent chemical attack on civilians didn’t happen.

Tin foil hat nonsense.

...And you believe us. Works both ways. I don`t believe Putin anymore than May or Trump. How`s that nonsense exactly.

As to the chemical attack. Where`s your proof or is anyone who doesn`t listen to the BBC or Sky a "conspiracy theorist" in your eyes.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

...And you believe us. Works both ways. I don`t believe Putin anymore than May or Trump. How`s that nonsense exactly.

There are extremely good reasons to believe 'us'. The UK is a very-long established Parliamentary democracy with a politically neutral civil service, an independent media that is very ready to (and indeed, often loves to) dig around anything embarrassing/untruthful that the Government might have done. There are a huge number of checks and balances in the UK to ensure the Government acts in a reasonably professional manner - and any instance in which a member of the Government is found to have lied to Parliament is generally regarded as a very serious issue (Look at the extent to which Tony Blair got excoriated when some people thought that he'd lied to Parliament over Iraqi WMD, or more recently, the trouble Damien Green got into over a probably lie over something far less important).

Contrast that with Russia - in which the Government controls much of the media; it's an ex-Communist state that, although notionally a democracy, does not yet have any real tradition of democracy or openness, and where a large number of Government employees will have grown up steeped in the methods of the former USSR. A country in which independent journalists and political opponents of the Government regularly find themselves dead or in prison. And whose Government has proven itself time and time again prepared to act subversively to undermine other countries.

In which country do you think it would be easier for the Goverment to set up facilities to manufacture nerve agents, go through all the bureaucracy of authorising the use of such an agent to illlegally kill someone, etc. without the story of what happened leaking out to the press, and then getting widely reported?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

.
As to the chemical attack. Where`s your proof or is anyone who doesn`t listen to the BBC or Sky a "conspiracy theorist" in your eyes.

The BBC is a large organisation that operates under a legal requirement to report news impartially, and which employs a large number of journalists and other staff to verify facts etc. It's not perfect but there are arguably very few other news sites that are overall more reliable or trustworthy when it comes to day-to-day news.

I don't know where you're getting your news from Syria from, but you seem to be claiming that the chemical attack was not the work of the Syrian Government - and that suggests to me that you're getting your news from places that are not really reputable/reliable sources of news. That doesn't by itself automatically make you a conspiracy theorist, but it certainly suggests you ought to re-evaluate where you're getting your news from.

 

[Bromley boy]

There are extremely good reasons to believe 'us'. The UK is a very-long established Parliamentary democracy with a politically neutral civil service, an independent media that is very ready to (and indeed, often loves to) dig around anything embarrassing/untruthful that the Government might have done. There are a huge number of checks and balances in the UK to ensure the Government acts in a reasonably professional manner - and any instance in which a member of the Government is found to have lied to Parliament is generally regarded as a very serious issue (Look at the extent to which Tony Blair got excoriated when some people thought that he'd lied to Parliament over Iraqi WMD, or more recently, the trouble Damien Green got into over a probably lie over something far less important).

Contrast that with Russia - in which the Government controls much of the media; it's an ex-Communist state that, although notionally a democracy, does not yet have any real tradition of democracy or openness, and where a large number of Government employees will have grown up steeped in the methods of the former USSR. A country in which independent journalists and political opponents of the Government regularly find themselves dead or in prison. And whose Government has proven itself time and time again prepared to act subversively to undermine other countries.

In which country do you think it would be easier for the Goverment to set up facilities to manufacture nerve agents, go through all the bureaucracy of authorising the use of such an agent to illlegally kill someone, etc. without the story of what happened leaking out to the press, and then getting widely reported?

A thoughtful and well written post indeed.

 

[DarloRich]

A thoughtful and well written post indeed.

indeed - much more polite than i am willing to be.

 

[Master29]

The BBC is a large organisation that operates under a legal requirement to report news impartially, and which employs a large number of journalists and other staff to verify facts etc. It's not perfect but there are arguably very few other news sites that are overall more reliable or trustworthy when it comes to day-to-day news.

I don't know where you're getting your news from Syria from, but you seem to be claiming that the chemical attack was not the work of the Syrian Government - and that suggests to me that you're getting your news from places that are not really reputable/reliable sources of news. That doesn't by itself automatically make you a conspiracy theorist, but it certainly suggests you ought to re-evaluate where you're getting your news from.

So, basically, if I don`t agree with you I`m a conspiracy theorist. Why is that so bad exactly? Thank you for this most enlightening post.

 

[Master29]

indeed - much more polite than i am willing to be.

No surprise there then.

 

[DarloRich]

Who exactly are the OPCW if not a quango spreading pro western propoganda. We`re never going to get to the truth. This "All the signs point to Russia" is people echoing what they`ve been told. Yes Russia have propaganda but good god us and the US are champions at it so how can anyone say for sure without knowing the facts.

It could equally have been mossad. the CIA, MI6 or the Russian secret service as anyone else. Believe what you want.

No surprise there then.

The first quote above is so mad that I suspect parody. If not............

 

[Harbornite]

It could equally have been mossad. the CIA, MI6 or the Russian secret service as anyone else. Believe what you want.

Take off the tin hat and wake up. Why would Mossad poison Russians living in the UK?

 

[DarloRich]

Take off the tin hat and wake up. Why would Mossad poison Russians living in the UK?

Zionists/ Rotchschild/international Jewish conspiracy/insert favored antisemitic canard here.......................................

 

[Tetchytyke]

Zionists/ Rotchschild/international Jewish conspiracy

I'm sticking with Interflora trying to bump their profit margin up.

Just as they did with Diana. The cads and bounders.

Meanwhile, in Russia:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/16/europe/russian-journalist-borodin-dies-fall-intl/index.html

(CNN)A Russian reporter known for his investigations into Russian mercenaries in Syria died after a fall from his apartment in the city of Yekaterinburg, raising fresh concern about threats to independent journalists.

Maxim Borodin fell from his fifth-floor apartment and died Sunday, according to a statement released by his employer, Novy Den (New Day). Local police said they did not see any foul play, but his death prompted intense speculation among friends and colleagues.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Zionists/ Rotchschild/international Jewish conspiracy/insert favored antisemitic canard here.......................................

Oh that's nothing. On one other group I'm involved with, someone has quite seriously expressed the belief that it was the Tory Party that organised the poisoning. Not the UK Government, but specifically the Conservative party. The mind truly boggles at the thought of a complete chemical weapons lab presumably operating out of a couple of rooms in Tory Party HQ in Westminster, completely unnoticed by any party staff who might have otherwise been inclined to report it.

The ability of some people to believe the utterly absurd (when they find it politically convenient to do do do) just seems incredible