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Who poisoned the Skripals?

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Bromley boy

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More likely it's a unit that's been given carte-blanche to do whatever they deem necessary while the central government is able to maintain plausible deniability: "We never authorised that action."

That’s precisely it - I don’t doubt for a second that the U.K. government has conducted similar extra judicial killings when it suits. Is poisoning someone that morally different to wiping them out in a drone strike? It may be “illegal”, or legally questionable, but it’s perhaps morally justified in some circumstances.

Can I honestly say I feel particularly sorry for the Skripals? I’m afraid I can’t. Maybe for the daughter at a push - although it seems likely she was involved in dodgy activities herself.

Mr Skripal sold his country down the river and got his just deserts in my view.

The fact that the nerve agent killed a woman who may have accidentally been exposed to it confirms it's lethal. It might be the Skripals were stronger or got more immediate medical attention than those who tried to kill them anticipated. The fact that the person who administered the nerve agent hasn't been found but dumped nerve agent seems to have been found by a member of the public suggests whoever did it didn't f**k up, if they f**ked up they'd have been caught with the nerve agent in their hands but they were away from the Skripals and dumped the nerve agent without anyone seeing anything.

I don’t think anyone with even a passing knowledge of the substance used, from what we have seen in the media, has any doubt that the agent in question is highly lethal in the correct doseage.

Wasn’t it something to do with rain dilluting the dosage the Skripals received? In that respect perhaps the Russians did “f*ck up”.

It’s sad that the latest fatality has happened - but goes to show that rummaging through rubbish for cigarette butts isn’t a sensible strategy.

Can I honestly say I care that much? Nope. I really can’t.
 
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Master29

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It was a Womble that did it. Tomsk was acting on orders from his Russian puppet masters.

While that's theoretically possible, an obvious counter-argument is what's happened in Ukraine. The extent of Russian military support for the rebels there, including strong evidence of numerous Russian troops working 'unofficially' is far too big to be blamed on a rogue unit, and clearly shows that the Russian Government is willing to ignore international rules and interfere in other countries in a way that's consistent with their having been behind the Salisbury attacks. And that's even before you consider Russia's annexation of Crimea or the various reports of Russian military aircraft illegally entering UK airspace.

It was a Womble that did it. Tomsk was acting on orders from his Russian puppet masters.

About as believable as most of the recent statements here quite frankly. People obviously peddle anything they`re told.
 

DarloRich

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That’s precisely it - I don’t doubt for a second that the U.K. government has conducted similar extra judicial killings when it suits. Is poisoning someone that morally different to wiping them out in a drone strike? It may be “illegal”, or legally questionable, but it’s perhaps morally justified in some circumstances.

Can I honestly say I feel particularly sorry for the Skripals? I’m afraid I can’t. Maybe for the daughter at a push - although it seems likely she was involved in dodgy activities herself.

Mr Skripal sold his country down the river and got his just deserts in my view.



I don’t think anyone with even a passing knowledge of the substance used, from what we have seen in the media, has any doubt that the agent in question is highly lethal in the correct doseage.

Wasn’t it something to do with rain dilluting the dosage the Skripals received? In that respect perhaps the Russians did “f*ck up”.

It’s sad that the latest fatality has happened - but goes to show that rummaging through rubbish for cigarette butts isn’t a sensible strategy.

Can I honestly say I care that much? Nope. I really can’t.

You are a hard man!
 

Antman

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But you can see where I’m coming from, right?! :D

I see where you're coming from and this couple are innocent victims and I wonder what the long term damage to Salisbury's economy will be, visitor numbers are well down and will anybody want to buy property there?
 

greyman42

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I see where you're coming from and this couple are innocent victims and I wonder what the long term damage to Salisbury's economy will be, visitor numbers are well down and will anybody want to buy property there?
I don't think there will be any long term damage as people tend to have short memories.
 

Darandio

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Police have cordoned of a street in Salisbury near the Zizzis restaurant where the Skripal's dined at due to a man falling ill. Not confirmed as related as yet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-44812120

Police have cordoned off a street in Salisbury after a man fell ill in the city centre.

Wiltshire Police said they were dealing with an ongoing incident in Castle Street involving a man in his 30s.

The police cordon is near Zizzis restaurant where ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia dined before they fell ill.

On Twitter, Salisbury Police said: "There is nothing to suggest any wider risk to the public."

They added: "Given the ongoing incident in Salisbury and Amesbury, we are taking highly precautionary measures to ensure public safety.

"We do not want people to be alarmed, but hope you understand the reasons behind this."
 

pemma

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Police are saying a bottle found at the house of the woman who died contains Novichok.

I wonder how many theories will now been circulating like Russians paid the woman to poison the Skripals or they planted the Novichok on the woman to make it look like she was involved.
 

Tetchytyke

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But you can see where I’m coming from, right?! :D

Yes and no. Russia got their double agents back because of a deal. It's pretty shoddy to then go and murder the spies you released in another country, and kill innocent people along the way.

Not that Uncle Vladimir cares. He murdered 300 innocent people on an aeroplane without giving the tiniest little toss, 2 bin dippers won't bother him at all
 

Bromley boy

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Yes and no. Russia got their double agents back because of a deal. It's pretty shoddy to then go and murder the spies you released in another country, and kill innocent people along the way.

Not that Uncle Vladimir cares. He murdered 300 innocent people on an aeroplane without giving the tiniest little toss, 2 bin dippers won't bother him at all

Fair point. Collateral damage is inexcusable.
 

Darandio

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The police and CPS have now named two Russian suspects and believe they have sufficient evidence to bring charges. No doubt some still won't believe it had anything to do with the Russians.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45421445
_103298726_russuspects.jpg


Two Russian nationals have been named as suspects in the poisoning of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.

There is "sufficient evidence" to charge Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov over the attack in Salisbury, Scotland Yard and the CPS say.

They are thought to have been using the names as aliases and are about 40.

Mr Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, were poisoned with nerve agent Novichok in March.

Sue Hemming, CPS director of legal services, said there was enough evidence "to provide a realistic prospect of conviction" and that "it is clearly in the public interest to charge Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov".

Metropolitan Police say they arrived at Gatwick Airport from Moscow on 2 March and stayed at the City Stay Hotel in Bow Road, east London before travelling to Salisbury on 4 March, where Mr Skripal's front door was contaminated with Novichok.

The offences include conspiracy to murder Sergei Skripal; the attempted murder of Sergei Skripal, Yulia Skripal and Nick Bailey; the use and possession of Novichok contrary to the Chemical Weapons Act; and causing grievous bodily harm with intent to Yulia Skripal and Nick Bailey.

Det Sgt Nick Bailey fell ill responding to the incident in Salisbury.

Prime Minister Theresa May is to make a statement in the House of Commons later to update MPs on the investigation, Downing Street has said.
 

DarloRich

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Typos so this must be getting under your skin.

that is the best you have got after posting the industrial grade wibble below is it? A bigger man would admit they were wrong and consider whether they need to change their reading material from tin foil based conspiracy clap trap to something more sensible.

Who exactly are the OPCW if not a quango spreading pro western propoganda. We`re never going to get to the truth. This "All the signs point to Russia" is people echoing what they`ve been told. Yes Russia have propaganda but good god us and the US are champions at it so how can anyone say for sure without knowing the facts.

It could equally have been mossad. the CIA, MI6 or the Russian secret service as anyone else. Believe what you want.

...And you believe us. Works both ways. I don`t believe Putin anymore than May or Trump. How`s that nonsense exactly.

As to the chemical attack. Where`s your proof or is anyone who doesn`t listen to the BBC or Sky a "conspiracy theorist" in your eyes.

Do you mean Jeremy Corbyn?

His response is already being spun by his cultish clown army to pretend it is something it was not.
 

Darandio

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They have been on the official state disinformation service this morning, they were just tourists. :rolleyes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45509697

Two men named as suspects in the poisoning of a Russian ex-spy in the UK claim they were merely tourists.

The men, named as Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov, told the RT channel that they went sightseeing in Salisbury but returned to London within an hour.

They are accused by the UK of trying to kill Russian ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in March.

The UK has described them as agents of Russia's military intelligence service, the GRU.

"The town was covered by this slush. We got wet, took the nearest train and came back" to London, they told RT, Russia's state-run international broadcaster.

The UK's Crown Prosecution Service has said there is enough evidence to charge the men, who are understood to have travelled to London from Moscow on 2 March on Russian passports.

Two days later, police say, they sprayed the military-grade nerve agent Novichok on the front door of Mr Skripal's home in the Wiltshire city of Salisbury, before travelling home to Russia later that day.

On Wednesday President Vladimir Putin said "there is nothing criminal about them". He called them "civilians".

Mr Skripal and his daughter fell critically ill but recovered after weeks of intensive care in hospital. Their whereabouts now is being kept secret.

UK police are linking the attack to a separate Novichok poisoning on 30 June, when Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley fell ill at a house in Amesbury, about 13km (eight miles) away.

Ms Sturgess died in hospital on 8 July.
 

EM2

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Friday - flew into London, checked into grimy east London hotel
Saturday - Went to Salisbury to look at famous 132m spire of famous beautiful cathedral
Sunday - Went BACK to Salisbury to look again at wonderful spire
Sunday evening - Immediately left for Moscow

Sounds completely legit
 

thejuggler

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I don't even know why any UK outlet us even reporting this nonsense.

These two men from one of the snowiest and coldest Country on earth went home early because it was wet and slushy. Ok we believe you.
 

greyman42

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Friday - flew into London, checked into grimy east London hotel
Saturday - Went to Salisbury to look at famous 132m spire of famous beautiful cathedral
Sunday - Went BACK to Salisbury to look again at wonderful spire
Sunday evening - Immediately left for Moscow

Sounds completely legit
You would not sell many holidays with an itinerary like that would you!
 

Busaholic

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Friday - flew into London, checked into grimy east London hotel
Saturday - Went to Salisbury to look at famous 132m spire of famous beautiful cathedral
Sunday - Went BACK to Salisbury to look again at wonderful spire
Sunday evening - Immediately left for Moscow

Sounds completely legit
They should have been asked the killer question: how much did you pay for admission to Salisbury Cathedral? Their answer(s) would immediately confirm whether they were telling the truth!
 

MotCO

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They should have been asked the killer question: how much did you pay for admission to Salisbury Cathedral? Their answer(s) would immediately confirm whether they were telling the truth!
But that question was not on the prepared script!

Probably better to release the CCTV from Salisbury Cathedral over those two days to prove that the suspects never went to the cathedral (if the tapes still exist).
 

Kite159

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They should have been asked the killer question: how much did you pay for admission to Salisbury Cathedral? Their answer(s) would immediately confirm whether they were telling the truth!

"We didn't pay to go in as you can't look at the beautiful spire from inside" :lol:
 

Groningen

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That interview was as if the new Laurel and Hardy visited England. That interview was just for the local Russian market with a real "independent" RT as network it was aired on. Disgusting! That visit to that church must have been rather short. There are more of those in the UK!

Surely they made pictures!
 

Tim R-T-C

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I don't even know why any UK outlet us even reporting this nonsense.

These two men from one of the snowiest and coldest Country on earth went home early because it was wet and slushy. Ok we believe you.

The BBC etc. are reporting it, because it is so absurd, that it has basically proven all of the naysayers wrong - in putting out this ridicious, Putin has essentially exposed to the world that this was a hit job. Attempts to blame this on an inside British job just seem pointless now.

But then, I think that's what he wanted all along, the entire operation was just another demonstration of Russia's reach and power - to threaten fellow former operatives into silence and keep Russia at the top of the world's power rankings. They can reach out and have someone seriously injured, then come up with a silly excuse and nothing more can be done. There is a reason why Putin is considered more powerful on a global scale than the Indian and Chinese premiers, even though they have much larger economies.

If the Russians really wanted to cover things up, they could just say that the two men were suspected Russian mafia and were using fake IDs. Perhaps start a story that the Skirpals were in debt to the mob or had underground connections.
 

gingerheid

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I can think of half a dozen better stories than what they came up with. Either this was an uncharacteristic propaganda disaster for Russia, or really they want people to know it was them.
 

DynamicSpirit

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I can think of half a dozen better stories than what they came up with. Either this was an uncharacteristic propaganda disaster for Russia, or really they want people to know it was them.

I suspect the point is that it'll be convincing to much of the domestic Russian audience who are generally only seeing the Russian Government's line on their media. And also most of the conspiracy-theorists in the UK who are trying to convince themselves it was the CIA/the Tory Party/MI5/Elvis Presley wot did it will probably find it convincing.

I look forward to someone trying to track down this Vitamin/supplement business that Petrov and Boshirov claim to be running ;)
 

DarloRich

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The problem is there are still many tin foiler useful idiots who insist it is all a false flag operation rather than the Russians. Oddly many of them are Corbyn fan boys...........
 

gingerheid

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The problem is there are still many tin foiler useful idiots who insist it is all a false flag operation rather than the Russians. Oddly many of them are Corbyn fan boys...........

Most of the ones that are in my FB are backing down and going with something along the lines of that they were right to remain skeptical until they'd seen the evidence, but now they have and etc...

But yeah, clearly it was the Mossad. Probably tried to bump them off because they were going to expose them for stealing shoes.
 

Darandio

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Another twist in the plot. It's reported that the 'tourist' claiming to be Ruslan Boshirov is actually Colonel Anatoliy Chepiga. Still wasn't the Russians though. :lol:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45656004

An investigative journalism website has published what it says is the real identity of one of the Russian intelligence officers suspected of the Salisbury nerve agent poisoning.

The Bellingcat group claims the man who was named as Ruslan Boshirov is actually Colonel Anatoliy Chepiga.

British officials have not commented. The BBC understands there is no dispute over the identification.

UK investigators have said Mr Boshirov was a Russian intelligence officer.

It was thought he travelled to the UK on a false passport, under a pseudonym, with another Russian national who used the name Alexander Petrov.

Ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were poisoned by Novichok in March. The pair survived but Dawn Sturgess - a woman not connected to the original attack - died in July after being exposed to the same substance.

The UK government has accused Mr Petrov and Mr Boshirov of the attack. It said they were undercover officers for the Russian military intelligence, the GRU.

Russia has always denied the allegations and President Vladimir Putin said the suspects were civilians.

The pair then appeared on Russian-state television claiming to have been tourists, visiting Salisbury to visit its cathedral.

Bellingcat says that Col Chepiga was a soldier who served in Chechnya and was awarded the highest state award - Hero of the Russian Federation, usually bestowed personally by President Vladimir Putin.

Bellingcat obtained extracts from the passport file of Anatoliy Vladimirovich Chepiga. A picture of Mr Chepiga from 2003 appears to look like a younger version of the man who used the identity Ruslan Bushirov.
 

DarloRich

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Another twist in the plot. It's reported that the 'tourist' claiming to be Ruslan Boshirov is actually Colonel Anatoliy Chepiga. Still wasn't the Russians though

Any comment form Corbyn or his clown army of fan boys? Just admit you were wrong.
 
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