who shall I complain to?

[fowler9]

Or you could not bother with the stress of keep chasing this round and round in circles, accept the refund and hope that lessons have been learned by those involved?

I would probably take that option in all honesty. Some people want some kind of detailed explanation of what went wrong though (Which they will never get) and a detailed description of what will be done to make sure it ever happens again (Which they will never get). They will keep on trying for this until they finally accept that "Someone f*cked up".
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I once was involved with a complaint (Not in my current job) where the complainant was told that if what they said was true the person being complained about would probably get sacked in line with the complaints procedure. (They shouldn't have been told this). They insisted on making the complaint and the person got sacked. The complainant then complained about the person being sacked which they somehow found out about. Some people are never happy.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Or you could not bother with the stress of keep chasing this round and round in circles, accept the refund and hope that lessons have been learned by those involved?

I would probably take that option in all honesty. Some people want some kind of detailed explanation of what went wrong though (Which they will never get) and a detailed description of what will be done to make sure it ever happens again (Which they will never get). They will keep on trying for this until they finally accept that "Someone f*cked up".

 

[gray1404]

Or you could not bother with the stress of keep chasing this round and round in circles, accept the refund and hope that lessons have been learned by those involved?

I would take that view but it bothers me that Transport Focus has not responded to the complaint in such a way whereby they have even bothered contacting London Midland. I think we do need Transport Focus to realise that we, as rail users, expect them to be an effective watchdog and to take complaints seriously. It worrys me here that they have taken the side of the train company without actually advocating the view and position of the passenger.

I do think that in fairness to Transport Focus, the moment they saw that Virgin had refunded the fare that London Midland incorrectly sold they saw it was matter closed. However, in their same email they say words to the effect that they cannot understand what that actual ticket was sold and then go on about how they cannot comment because they were not there at the time. How very polically correct! But actually no help to the passenger. Had I have been reading that then I would have looked at the account provided by the passenger and then taken it up with the TOC and asking why they where not sold the cheapest ticket. In short, I really do think that TF should still have spoken to LM about this case.

What is the complaints process if you are not happy with the way Transport Focus have dealt with a complaint?

 

[ian959]

What is the complaints process if you are not happy with the way Transport Focus have dealt with a complaint?

Probably The Daily Mail...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would probably take that option in all honesty. Some people want some kind of detailed explanation of what went wrong though (Which they will never get) and a detailed description of what will be done to make sure it ever happens again (Which they will never get). They will keep on trying for this until they finally accept that "Someone f*cked up".

This I think rather depends on what the complaint is - sometimes that can be a justified explanation, sometimes procedural changes are needed. I rarely when complaining want an individual kicked[1] - people make mistakes - but I often do want to encourage procedural investigation and change.

It may be unrealistic at times, but that doesn't mean I don't want to push for it where I believe there is a genuine problem that could be solved at a reasonable cost just by doing something differently.

[1] Even genuinely rude staff (very much in the minority) often have a cause higher up the tree - poor management making them feel unvalued in their role, for instance. Most instances of "rude staff", however, are actually "staff telling the customer entirely politely something they don't want to hear".

 

[fowler9]

This I think rather depends on what the complaint is - sometimes that can be a justified explanation, sometimes procedural changes are needed. I rarely when complaining want an individual kicked[1] - people make mistakes - but I often do want to encourage procedural investigation and change.

It may be unrealistic at times, but that doesn't mean I don't want to push for it where I believe there is a genuine problem that could be solved at a reasonable cost just by doing something differently.

[1] Even genuinely rude staff (very much in the minority) often have a cause higher up the tree - poor management making them feel unvalued in their role, for instance. Most instances of "rude staff", however, are actually "staff telling the customer entirely politely something they don't want to hear".

The thing is that the cause of complaints is often down to one person messing up. If that is the cause then sadly the only answer is to get rid of that person if they are doing it all the time or if many people are making the same mistakes then it is a training or procedural issue. Either way you are not going to get a "full and detailed break down of what happened and what will be done about it" which is what many ask for. They probably wouldn't understand it if they got it.

I am currently dealing with a lot of complaints which involve the fact many different companies are involved as a result of privatisation. People are complaining about the number of different companies involved in resolving their problem. This is a direct result of our society, privatisation etc. I can't very well go back to them and tell them the best way to resolve their complaint would be to vote for a socialist government because you got exactly what you paid and voted for.

 

[joke2711]

I agree that this is now laid to rest.

I did re-contact transport focus and received the following reply;

Each train company may approach this situation differently. Technically, the correct process would be to charge for a new ticket, if a passenger was found to be travelling on an incorrect service. This would apply even if the error was not the passenger’s and also for any return leg required. It appears that the staff on-board, on realising that your coleeague was on the wrong train, have used their discretion and applied an Authority To Travel as opposed to charging her for the journey being taken. London Midland have not applied this same discretion, but regrettably they would not be under any obligation to do so and were acting in line with the rules of rail travel in charging for her return to Euston. London Midland did not provide the incorrect information at Euston and so would be under no obligation to authorise “free” travel. However, in these situations, we feel that the correct thing to do is for that fare to be refunded by the train company who provided the incorrect information – Virgin Trains. This is not something which they must do, but something that we feel is morally just.

I note your comments regarding her request to pay for a ticket back to Euston, which resulted in the sale of the Travelcard, which as you correctly point out would cover the journey which your colleague had intended to pay for with her Oyster Card. As I mentioned in my previous email, as we were not there, I cannot speculate as to what was discussed during this interaction to ascertain whether this was misunderstood by the sales agent. The sales agent should’ve sold your colleague a ticket to return to Euston. However, I was not with your colleague to confirm what exactly was asked for, nor what was interpreted by the sales agent.

The case has been discussed with both train companies to gather all accounts of what happened. My response has also been based on the rules of rail travel, which I have mentioned above, and what we feel would be a just outcome.

Given that London Midland have not acted outside of the rules (considering the evidence we have) we would not be able to pursue further recompense from them. I am aware that Virgin Trains have refunded the Travelcard, as goodwill, given their error – as I mentioned above, they are not obliged to do this under statute, so I feel that this is a fair outcome to the recompense part of your complaint. Regrettably, we cannot instruct the train companies to offer additional goodwill and therefore I cannot take your complaint further on this occasion.

Thank you for taking the time to contact me again.

 

[yorkie]

Transport Focus do not focus on passengers rights, and in a way it's quite apt to see their new name reflect the facts, as the old name was arguably misleading.

I'm not happy with many of their responses, this is just one example.

Remember they get their funding from the DfT, whose priority appears to be to minimise subsidy (which is understandable to some extent...), rather than focus on passenger rights.

The question was asked earlier what to do when you're unhappy with them. There is an escalation procedure, if I recall correctly it involves contacting your MP. I know a forum member who did this, and about 2 years later I think the case is still unresolved. And that was a case of a passenger using the shortest route by rail, and in accordance with an itinerary for a ticket booked on the same operators website. Absolutely useless.

 

[gray1404]

Yes, I think then in light of that second repy, and in that she disclosed that the matter has been discussed with LM and VT, there is nothing more you can do on this matter.

I don't think this "it was the other TOCs fault" approach. i.e. it wasn't LM, it was VT who gave the incorrect information. So they didn't have the authorise free travel, approach. It really makes no difference to the customer. Also, it appears that London Midland have not learnt any lessons from this.

But yes, from your end, I think you can consider there is nothing more you can do really on this one. But well done for sticking ot your guns and getting the outcomes you have (i.e. refunds).