Who would pay for a new station to be built?

[tagzy]

Just curious really. Would it be central/local government/DfT?

TOC?

Network Rail??

Cheers

 

[gordonthemoron]

or even a site developer

 

[sprinterguy]

Local government are expected to stump up at least part of the funding for the new High Speed 2 Curzon Street station in Birmingham. It is likely however that the private company that are contracted by the Government to build HS2 will still bear the brunt of the cost of the build.

I think what has to be asked here is what was the arrangement for the construction of Stratford International?

 

[tagzy]

Yes that would be interesting sprinterguy.

So could a developer/builder own a station then? I know stations are managed by either TOC's or Network Rail so I assume they take some/all of the profit the station generates. But can't see a developer actually managing a station.

Come to think if it, how does a station generate money apart from shop tenancies. Do they charge TOC's?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Local councils were the funders for Armathwaite (on the S&C) in 1986, Ashcurch for Tewkesbury in 1997, and Baildon in 1973. Another example is Beauly on the Inverness-Dingwall line, costs for this were met by the SRA and local authorities.

 

[wibble]

So could a developer/builder own a station then? I know stations are managed by either TOC's or Network Rail so I assume they take some/all of the profit the station generates. But can't see a developer actually managing a station.

Local authorities can ask for money towards transport infrastructure improvements as part of Section 106 of the Town & Country Planning Act. The Section 106 agreement would be a legally binding part of the planning consent.

Section 106 money could cover the capital cost of any work (e.g. building a rail station, improving a road junction) with the ongoing maintenance (and associated costs) passed to the relevant authority. I can't imagine may developers wanting to directly take on the cost of running a station unless there was a financial benefit for doing so.

I believe that Imperial Wharf station was largely funded by Section 106 money.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Imperial Wharf station was paid for by:
St George (developers): £4,800,000;
Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea: £600,000;
Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham: £1,350,000;
TfL: £1,000,000
Total: £7,800,000.

 

[tagzy]

Thanks for all your replies.

The reason I asked is I am wondering if it would be feasible to build a small/unmanned station near to Devizes, Wiltshire (where I am originally from).

The Reading to Plymouth line runs near to Devizes (about 3.5 miles from the town centre) between Pewsey and Westbury and I think it would be a benefit to build a platform at this location, as the nearest train stations to Devizes are 10+ miles away and other transport links are atrocious. I am not proposing a full on station, just simply two platforms and a ticket machine.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The most recent similar station to this would be Laurencekirk near Aberdeen. It cost £3.24m to build, and part of the platforms/station was already intact, and along with its two platforms, a ticket machine, CCTV and CIS were installed. Those are pretty mush the basics of any new station, also bear in mind that the station will be 3.5m from Devizes, so parkway/plenty of parking spaces will have to be built and made available. Services to actually use the station too will also have to be planned. Disabled access would also mhave to be created, and that can cost plenty too. Nice idea though.

 

[route:oxford]

I am not proposing a full on station, just simply two platforms and a ticket machine.

That is a pretty much full-on station.

Don't forget the overbridge, lifts, CCTV...

 

[Aictos]

That is a pretty much full-on station.

Don't forget the overbridge, lifts, CCTV...

Staff who could sell tickets as well as dispatch,

 

[tagzy]

Well to me a 'full on' station is one with a ticket office, guards, shop, waiting room etc.

What I'm proposing is simply a platform in each direction, a self-service machine or 'permit to travel' machine, timetable guide and passenger information point. The place I am thinking of has a roadbridge going over the track and having ramps in place leading to the platforms from the bridge so no need for lifts. Basically what I have in mind is very similar to Oldfield Park in Bath (as an example).

 

[WatcherZero]

Another new 'basic' station is Buckshaw Village in Chorley, cost £3.3m add the above together and average and your looking at £3m-£3.5m.

Process would normally go:
Council commisions engineering feasability and basic BCR
Council adopts it as a planning policy
Council tries to get grants from RDA/EU/other infrastructure fund
Council gets Network Rail to accept it as a scheme, NR do detailed engineering and BCR
Council has to promise rail operator to cover first couple of years operation costs/ operator has to be persuaded to run services there.
It Gets built

 

[tagzy]

Nice one watcher zero. What is BCR?

The problem with my area is its not as 'open' as the Buckshaw Village site and would require a lot of excavation. And almost certainly no room for a car park.

Here is a photo to see what you think of the site.

 

[tbtc]

Three million quid minimum for some paving and a bus shelter...

No wonder the railways are too expensive!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Nice one watcher zero. What is BCR?

The problem with my area is its not as 'open' as the Buckshaw Village site and would require a lot of excavation. And almost certainly no room for a car park.

Here is a photo to see what you think of the site.

It looks like the land to the left of the track on the photo is more suitable: a disabled-access footbridge would be required, or (I would guess more costly), lifts. It looks like it may be a bit crowded down there, it is not the ideal site really...

 

[WatcherZero]

BCR is Benefit Cost Ratio, how much economic benefits it brings to an area (employment, time saving, economic stimulus, regeneration, commercial revenue) compared to its construction and running cost, usually for the first 30 years. Below 1.0 no chance of it going ahead, 1.0-1.5 small chance but would require private investment or a very generous grant giver, 1.5-2 good chance of it going ahead if you can find a grant giver, 2+ very good.

 

[wibble]

There are a couple of issues with the suggested location:
- There is no footway on the bridge so it's likely that the bridge would need one added.
- The bridge is likely to need rebuilding anyway if there is a large increase in road traffic.
- You would need to provide a car park as the location is too remote for people to walk to.
- FGW would need to agree to stop trains there. They're unlikely to do this if they can't prove a business case for it financially or it has a detrimental affect to other services.

 

[tagzy]

Here is another photo looking in the other direction. I've noticed there is some steps on the right.

I will visit the site properly when I return to the area. Believe it or not, that is one of the main roads into and out of Devizes.

This started out as just a query really but I might see if I can get the ball rolling with this one by writing to some key people. I wouldn't expect much but who knows - it's worth a try surely?

 

[MCR247]

I doubt FGW would want to call many services there anyway, and no offence, but there must be better things to use 3m on?

 

[142094]

Three million quid minimum for some paving and a bus shelter...

No wonder the railways are too expensive!

Imagine if we needed to replace some of the big stations...

 

[telstarbox]

The most recent similar station to this would be Laurencekirk near Aberdeen. It cost £3.24m to build, and part of the platforms/station was already intact, and along with its two platforms, a ticket machine, CCTV and CIS were installed. Those are pretty mush the basics of any new station, also bear in mind that the station will be 3.5m from Devizes, so parkway/plenty of parking spaces will have to be built and made available. Services to actually use the station too will also have to be planned. Disabled access would also mhave to be created, and that can cost plenty too. Nice idea though.

Has anyone got some pics of Laurencekirk to put on Wikipedia (which is currently illustrated with the old derelict station?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Laurencekirk_railway_station&action=edit

 

[wibble]

This started out as just a query really but I might see if I can get the ball rolling with this one by writing to some key people. I wouldn't expect much but who knows - it's worth a try surely?

Personally, I think you're wasting your time unless there is going to be a large housing development near the proposed site. In which case, a new station may already be part of the plan. It might be worth speeking to County Council to see if there are any plans for more housing near Devizes. If it's anything like Cranbrook in Devon, I wouldn't hold out muich hope!

 

[Dolive22]

Is this by the A342? If so the site looks alright to my untrained eye from a rail perspective, although it might be dodgy for getting on and off the A342. If you want to try costing it out, there are websites with indicative prices for things. I don't have all my favourites on this computer so I can give you the link, but there is a PDF of costing per area out there somewhere. If you want an idea on footbridges you could ring a firm. They might be friendly if you tell them you're an amateur looking in to a new station. There's a recession on so it's not like they'll have any bridges to build.

Ticket machines must cost a fortune because there is space for at least two more at my local station and they are over capacity selling tickets even after 9 in the morning.

I would think that you could get someone to do a carpark for free. The land can't cost much. Even with oil traps and measures to mitigate the flood impact of all that concrete (water goes down in to fields but sideways off concrete. Water that goes down has no impact on waterways and flooding, while water going sideways off concrete has to be got away to somewhere) it would turn a nice profit.

 

[Greenback]

I would think that you could get someone to do a carpark for free. The land can't cost much.

Are you serious? Who are these people that will draw up plans, get permission, and then construct a car park for nothing? Will they come around and fix my back wall too?

 

[Dolive22]

If they can charge you enough money to use your garden afterwards I'm sure they would do your wall.

The first figure I found for construction was £800 per space plus £111 per year for maintenance. Even at £1 per day and less than 100% occupancy that's not too bad. If enforcement pays for itself (and there are firms that will do it in return for the penalty ticket revenue) that could be 10% return which most infrastructure funds would jump at.

Re-reading my post my Quality of Written Communication wasn't great. They would build and operate it at no charge to you and keep the parking fees.

 

[manaichain]

This is very handy map of the area, very good website for finding old railway routes (which side of road old stationswere etc....

I've had a look at a lot of re-opening (hypothetical ones), if they were going to do Devizes... then a Devizes Parkway would be an idea. Located at the former site of Lavington railway station.

It's further out, but much better existing infrastructure. It's in Littleton Panell on the High Street on the right hand side after the railway bridge, on the A360 heading South from Devizes in the direction of Salisbury, and they could operate a bus shuttling people from Market Lavington, via the station to Devizes. Advertise the lovely market town (looks just like Wantage near where i grew up - the fabled Didcot - in fact Wantage is in same situation, large town, the station was 4 miles away, closed 1964, been talking about re-opening it for years, got shortlisted by the government), the Caen Hill Locks. Have a look at Littleton Panell High Street on Google Maps, look on street view, let me know what you think
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Also check out aerial view for the old station approach still very much in use
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Site Proposed by Original Poster

Lavington station, the A342 is at top right where it passes over the GWML [via Westbury] (the site proposed by OP)