Why are GTR's Gatwick Express 387s dual voltage?

[br0llz]

Just out of curiosity was there any particular reason the GX 387's were ordered with a panto? Is this some kind of long term commitment to running them north of Victoria?

 

[yorkie]

To provide flexibility; the company has run them to places like Milton Keynes and Bedford.

They are bog standard trains not specifically designed for an airport service. The original specification didn't include 1st class (with later addition of antimacassars to 'recitify' that)

 

[J-2739]

Some were also used on the Thameslink route.

 

[AM9]

Because some of the routes that they may run on are likely to be upgraded to OLE within their lifetime.

 

[59CosG95]

Because some of the routes that they may run on are likely to be upgraded to OLE within their lifetime.

If they last as long as the Mk1 SR EMUs, which is relatively likely, the BML may go over to OLE. Wouldn't bank on consideration for its conversion until at least CP7.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Because some of the routes that they may run on are likely to be upgraded to OLE within their lifetime.

I have my doubts about that. GatEx operates on one line. The Brighton Main Line. There are other priorities for electrification than changing a very complex line from 3rd rail to OLE (finishing off the GWML, electrifying the MML and TPE)

I would say its more that they are a standard design of train, that are near identical in specification to the 387/1 and 387/3s This means that there is flexibility should the stock be redeployed (bear in mind that 10 years ago the 442s were on the SWML and the 460s were on GatEx so a redeployment is not inconceivable)

 

[swt class 450]

Most EMUs nowadays seem to be built and delivered as dual voltage units. The C2C 387s and the GWR 387s are all dual voltage as well.

 

[Mikey C]

I assume as the panto is fitted, it's cheaper to leave it on, then have to pay to remove and store it?

I can't see the line to Gatwick and Brighton being converted to OHLE anytime soon, but it wouldn't surprised me if the 387s get moved to some other duties, especially if they abolish the Gatwick Express altogether!

 

[Roast Veg]

The DfT have (as I understand it) demanded that all new SR stock is built with capability to be converted to OLE, ever since privatisation. The idea is that at some point 3rd rail can be replaced with OLE completely in the region - all electrostars have pantograph wells as standard, and some have OLE capability (357s, a few 375 though never used, at least one subclass of 377, the 378s, and the 387s).

I don't know how common it is for a 387/1 and a 387/2 to work in multiple up to Bedford anymore, but it certainly used to be pretty common only a few months ago.

 

[AM9]

You should note that I said "some of the routes that they may" ... . That doesn't necessarily mean the BML. Class 387s are compatible with nearly all 3rd rail routes on the old SR.

 

[yorkie]

I have my doubts about that. GatEx operates on one line. The Brighton Main Line...

GTR operates many routes; their red 'GX' 387s have been allocated to services other than their GX route on numerous occasions.

.... they are a standard design of train, that are near identical in specification to the 387/1 and 387/3s This means that there is flexibility...

Absolutely, yes.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Easier to redeploy should the units get cascaded.

 

[NSE]

To save starting a new thread, why are they run so often as 12 cars? I get peak and weekend services (particularly summer) down to Brighton, but I was at Purley Sunday night and 12 coaches went through at about 11:20pm. I counted about five pax until one small group and I couldn't count them quick enough. Certainly no more than 15 on the whole train. Is this a permanent thing or are they just racking up a bit of mileage on them?

 

[yorkie]

The Gatwick terminators/starters are dead (if a normal timetable is operating) but the Brighton services can be extremely busy and are crush-loaded in the peaks, with tourists often struggling to board (let alone find seats) at Gatwick in the morning peak.

 

[swt_passenger]

To save starting a new thread, why are they run so often as 12 cars? I get peak and weekend services (particularly summer) down to Brighton, but I was at Purley Sunday night and 12 coaches went through at about 11:20pm.

Could be that it's a suitable service to get three sets back to Brighton for the Monday morning peak, doesn't necessarily mean they've been running as 12 car all evening.

 

[sd0733]

Also as they're short of drivers maybe to save splitting/joining and ecs moves it's easier to run as 12 car all day and save some of the drivers turns for the proper mainline work who would otherwise be splitting units and /or moving them to or from the depots.

 

[NSE]

The Gatwick terminators/starters are dead (if a normal timetable is operating) but the Brighton services can be extremely busy and are crush-loaded in the peaks, with tourists often struggling to board (let alone find seats) at Gatwick in the morning peak.

Oh no the Brighton ones make sense, particularly peak, but I've seen it on other occasions where the train is just going to Gatwick and it's been at various times of the day. Just thought I'd seen it a few too many times to be a positioning move. Mind you, as sd0733 says, Southern aren't without their problems are they, so it could quite easily be driver related.

 

[br0llz]

Ahhh ok, makes sense, obviously cascading later, should've really thought "past the days of GTR" which can be hard to do at times.

Just doesn't make logistical sense that a bunch of southern pantograph-less 377's weren't re-livered into GX colours and more dual voltage units made available to serve southern's OHLE routes.

 

[BingBong50]

The DfT have (as I understand it) demanded that all new SR stock is built with capability to be converted to OLE, ever since privatisation. The idea is that at some point 3rd rail can be replaced with OLE completely in the region - all electrostars have pantograph wells as standard, and some have OLE capability (357s, a few 375 though never used, at least one subclass of 377, the 378s, and the 387s).

Out of interest how easy is it to put pantographs on 377's that don't currently have them? Is all the necessary wiring and other equipment already fitted or is it a major job?

 

[hwl]

Out of interest how easy is it to put pantographs on 377's that don't currently have them? Is all the necessary wiring and other equipment already fitted or is it a major job?

The 377/6 just need transformer, pantograph and VCB. The HV wiring from the roof to transformer is built in. Not sure on the older ones but suspect they might need a bit more work than the newer ones.

 

[aleggatta]

Out of interest how easy is it to put pantographs on 377's that don't currently have them? Is all the necessary wiring and other equipment already fitted or is it a major job?

All the wiring is in place, only the relevant modules and equipment needs bolting on. Not impossible but, a significant cost per unit, and probably easier to displace the AC capable units rather than converting the DC only.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

All the wiring is in place, only the relevant modules and equipment needs bolting on.

and probably a software update for the TMS