Why are Metrolink trams so slow?

[geoffk]

Living near Manchester, I'm a frequent user of Metrolink and find many journeys are very slow, certainly slower than trams on the continent.

On the former railway sections, this is due to the change from fixed signals to "line of sight" driving, which has resulted in speed restrictions, e.g. going under the railway between Cornbrook and Trafford Bar where the tight curve means sightlines are poor. I think that, in one of two locations, there is a means of detecting a broken-down tram in a tunnel.

Elsewhere there are some very sharp curves, notably between Freehold and Westwood on the Oldham line, and several places on the Airport line, and we all remember the Croydon derailment a couple of years ago so extreme caution will be the order of the day.

Trams don't seem to like pointwork as there are severe speed restrictions when passing over them, e.g. at Irk Valley Junction and Shaw and places where a single track becomes double - Newbold, Timperley and others. Today we had to slow right down for a trailing emergency crossover near Sale Water Park. Is this because of wheel profiles or just a generally over-cautious approach?

When travelling down Mosley Street today, I noticed speed restrictions of 10 and 15 mph on a public highway where rubber-tyred vehicles would be able to travel at 30. Some of the 15s and 20s in central Manchester have red figures, which I assume are temporary. I would expect trams to be able to operate at road traffic speed when running on-street but this is often not the case.

 

[rebmcr]

When travelling down Mosley Street today, I noticed speed restrictions of 10 and 15 mph on a public highway where rubber-tyred vehicles would be able to travel at 30. Some of the 15s and 20s in central Manchester have red figures, which I assume are temporary. I would expect trams to be able to operate at road traffic speed when running on-street but this is often not the case.

They're even slower — in kph, not mph.

 

[geoffk]

They're even slower — in kph, not mph.

No, Metrolink speed limit signs are in miles per hour (50 is the highest), same for Sheffield. I'm fairly sure Nottingham, Midland Metro and Croydon use metric speed limits, as does Tyne &.Wear Metro, except on the Sunderland line, shared with National Rail, where both systems are used.

 

[rebmcr]

No, Metrolink speed limit signs are in miles per hour (50 is the highest), same for Sheffield. I'm fairly sure Nottingham, Midland Metro and Croydon use metric speed limits, as does Tyne &.Wear Metro, except on the Sunderland line, shared with National Rail, where both systems are used.

I thought it was standardised by the Highways Agency?

 

[edwin_m]

I thought it was standardised by the Highways Agency?

The form of the sign is standardised because of the risk of confusion with signs intended for other road users. But the units to be used are not, so different tramways have exactly the same speed sign but with a different meaning.

 

[Mojo]

I thought it was standardised by the Highways Agency?

The Highways Agency (now Highways England) have nothing to do with it; they only manage the strategic road network (Motorways and major A Roads)

 

[transmanche]

The form of the sign is standardised because of the risk of confusion with signs intended for other road users. But the units to be used are not, so different tramways have exactly the same speed sign but with a different meaning.

That seems a bit daft!

The official DfT publication Know Your Traffic Signs, thinks they are all in km/h.

 

[TC60054]

The red signs are temporary speed restrictions - therefore the trams will not be able run at the same speeds as rubber tyred vehicles, usually due to infrastructure issues.

It may very well be that for points that there's temporary restrictions in the trailing direction - alternatively the tram may be trailing the set of emergency points (whereby the tram flicks the switch back into it's "normal" position after a tram has traversed the crossover) - due to the likelihood of infrastructure or wheel damage in this process a lower speed (usually about 10-15mph) is used.

Facing points are different, as most facing points which aren't locked, clipped or scotched will have lower speed limits due to the risk of derailment. This becomes less of an issue on the railways as all facing points will have facing point locks, meaning that they can't change in front of or underneath a train (in theory!). Obviously on those points which aren't motorised or aren't locked in for a specific route (even if they are fully over) then a lower speed will help reduce the impact of a derailment if one was to occur.

 

[WatcherZero]

Slightly old source, but the table on page 32 shows that trams in the UK are actually the second fastest on average in Europe, and on average far faster than the continent and the Metrolink network has the highest average running speed of the UK networks.
(Most have an average speed of around 20kmh but the UK has an average speed of 33kmh second only to Irelands 35kmh)
http://www.uitp.org/sites/default/files/cck-focus-papers-files/errac_metrolr_tramsystemsineurope.pdf

 

[Mojo]

Metrolink network has the highest average running speed of the UK networks.

Insane to hear that if indeed it is true. Metrolink feels like an absolute crawl on most of the network. I wonder if they take into account the new lines rather than the original ex rail lines.

 

[Starmill]

Insane to hear that if indeed it is true. Metrolink feels like an absolute crawl on most of the network. I wonder if they take into account the new lines rather than the original ex rail lines.

It's unsurprising.

Metrolink has lots of dedicated sections where 50 miles / hour speed is easily achievable by the M5000s. Most tramways do not have this. Indeed, the Flexity 2 trams at Blackpool Transport and the Urbos 3 trams in Edinburgh and the West Midlands have a top speed of 70 kilometers / hour - 10 km/h slower than the M5000.

 

[edwin_m]

That report is dated 2009 so pre-dates any of the Phase 3 routes. Metrolink at the time consisted of two very fast routes to Altrincham and Bury and one slow one to Eccles. Since then it has added two fast routes (Rochdale and East Didsbury), one slow (Ashton) and one mixed (Airport).

 

[geoffk]

Thanks for replies. If you compare Metrolink with systems having 100% street running, then Metrolink's average speed will be significantly higher.

That report is dated 2009 so pre-dates any of the Phase 3 routes. Metrolink at the time consisted of two very fast routes to Altrincham and Bury and one slow one to Eccles. Since then it has added two fast routes (Rochdale and East Didsbury), one slow (Ashton) and one mixed (Airport).

And railway-type fixed signals still in 2009.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I think the horrendous track condition on the Altrincham line is more pressing atm.

 

[Bungle965]

I think the horrendous track condition on the Altrincham line is more pressing atm.

The track condition on the Eccles was also in a pretty bad state up until relatively recently when they shut the line and carried out repairs on the track, also I believe there was some more minor work carried out when the line was shut to enable Trafford Centre line works to be carried out.
Sam

 

[WatcherZero]

That's the main trade off, you can have trams capable of 50mph suburban services with large passenger capacity and wheels closer to normal rail wheel profile (though still capable of taking turns twice as sharp as a normal train), or you can have shorter trams with lower passenger capacity and more conical wheels that can take even sharper, faster turns allowing more threading of city centre streets, but have a lower top speed.

 

[Busaholic]

Slightly old source, but the table on page 32 shows that trams in the UK are actually the second fastest on average in Europe, and on average far faster than the continent and the Metrolink network has the highest average running speed of the UK networks.
(Most have an average speed of around 20kmh but the UK has an average speed of 33kmh second only to Irelands 35kmh)
http://www.uitp.org/sites/default/files/cck-focus-papers-files/errac_metrolr_tramsystemsineurope.pdf

This shouldn't be a surprise. Many European systems allow trams and cars/lorries/buses etc to freely interwork over the same streets and, I suggest, they tend to have more frequent stops in many cases, which drags speed down.

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes, so ultimately contrary to the original posters assertion, Metrolink is faster than systems on the continent.

 

[craigybagel]

Slightly old source, but the table on page 32 shows that trams in the UK are actually the second fastest on average in Europe, and on average far faster than the continent and the Metrolink network has the highest average running speed of the UK networks.
(Most have an average speed of around 20kmh but the UK has an average speed of 33kmh second only to Irelands 35kmh)
http://www.uitp.org/sites/default/files/cck-focus-papers-files/errac_metrolr_tramsystemsineurope.pdf

I suspect the fact that Ireland only has one system, and that at the time of the report a very large part of it was unusually high speed (the LUAS Green linel way almost entirely on its own right of way, that was formerly a heavy rail line. It's subsequent extensions at both ends so feature lower speed sections, and in the case of the Northern extension, a significant amount of Street running - but neither existed in 2009) does mess with the figures a little bit, compared to other countries with much larger networks.

It's unsurprising.

Metrolink has lots of dedicated sections where 50 miles / hour speed is easily achievable by the M5000s. Most tramways do not have this. Indeed, the Flexity 2 trams at Blackpool Transport and the Urbos 3 trams in Edinburgh and the West Midlands have a top speed of 70 kilometers / hour - 10 km/h slower than the M5000.

And AFAIK there are no sections faster then 50kmh on the Blackpool tramway anyway?

As for the other two tramways with 50mph running, the curvature, frequency of stops and large amount of street running on Sheffield Supertram mean that hitting 50 seems to be a fairly rare experience from what I've seen - and on Nottingham Express Transit only part of the fleet can hit the speed to begin with (the original Bombardier trams are good for 80kmh, but the later Alstom additions are only 70kmh) - and even then I believe they can only do so on the original stillse North of the city (at least I'm sure that when I travelled on the 2 extensions south of the city both were 70kmh max). Manchester metrolink gets up to full speed on most routes, some of which have some long sustained sections at top speed.

 

[TC60054]

I suspect the fact that Ireland only has one system, and that at the time of the report a very large part of it was unusually high speed (the LUAS Green linel way almost entirely on its own right of way, that was formerly a heavy rail line. It's subsequent extensions at both ends so feature lower speed sections, and in the case of the Northern extension, a significant amount of Street running - but neither existed in 2009) does mess with the figures a little bit, compared to other countries with much larger networks.



And AFAIK there are no sections faster then 50kmh on the Blackpool tramway anyway?

As for the other two tramways with 50mph running, the curvature, frequency of stops and large amount of street running on Sheffield Supertram mean that hitting 50 seems to be a fairly rare experience from what I've seen - and on Nottingham Express Transit only part of the fleet can hit the speed to begin with (the original Bombardier trams are good for 80kmh, but the later Alstom additions are only 70kmh) - and even then I believe they can only do so on the original stillse North of the city (at least I'm sure that when I travelled on the 2 extensions south of the city both were 70kmh max). Manchester metrolink gets up to full speed on most routes, some of which have some long sustained sections at top speed.

Nottingham no longer has 80kmh sections of track. The top speed is now 70kmh.

 

[507 001]

Living near Manchester, I'm a frequent user of Metrolink and find many journeys are very slow, certainly slower than trams on the continent.

On the former railway sections, this is due to the change from fixed signals to "line of sight" driving, which has resulted in speed restrictions, e.g. going under the railway between Cornbrook and Trafford Bar where the tight curve means sightlines are poor. I think that, in one of two locations, there is a means of detecting a broken-down tram in a tunnel.

Elsewhere there are some very sharp curves, notably between Freehold and Westwood on the Oldham line, and several places on the Airport line, and we all remember the Croydon derailment a couple of years ago so extreme caution will be the order of the day.

Trams don't seem to like pointwork as there are severe speed restrictions when passing over them, e.g. at Irk Valley Junction and Shaw and places where a single track becomes double - Newbold, Timperley and others. Today we had to slow right down for a trailing emergency crossover near Sale Water Park. Is this because of wheel profiles or just a generally over-cautious approach?

When travelling down Mosley Street today, I noticed speed restrictions of 10 and 15 mph on a public highway where rubber-tyred vehicles would be able to travel at 30. Some of the 15s and 20s in central Manchester have red figures, which I assume are temporary. I would expect trams to be able to operate at road traffic speed when running on-street but this is often not the case.

You’re correct in your assumption that the progressive switch to Line Of Sight driving is slowing us down. It’s as annoying to us drivers as it is to you.

Most manual turn backs have a 15mph (yes we do have all of our speeds in MPH) just in case they are in the reverse position requiring a tram to push through them. I have been unable to find a decent answer as to why the line controller cannot just advise the driver that the points are reverse but hey ho.

On the smaller junctions such as Trafford Depot gates, Queens Road junction etc, there are currently long standing TSRs in place due to points control issues. However, The larger junctions with poor sight lines, so Trafford Bar and Irk Valley, are nominally 15 anyway. We also have a number of long standing TSRs at Altrincham due to track conditions. TSRs have red numbers on the boards.

Mosley Street on the Inbound line is currently 20 MPH, this is due to a blanket speed restriction imposed on ALL vehicles across the city centre. This has been in place for around a year and also affects Aytoun Street on the Piccadilly branch and Cross Street on 2CC.
On the Outbound line on Mosley Street, the normal speeds would be 10 for the chicane outside the alchemist, increasing to 20 past the bank of China and reducing to 15 for the Nicholas and Booth Street unsignalled junction. This is an unsignalled junction with horrendous sight lines and an unfortunate accident record. There is currently a 10MPH TSR in place past the bank of China whilst building work is taking place that has resulted in scaffolding being erected. This scaffolding is interfering with the pavement and making the already terrible sight lines for Nicholas/Booth St much worse.
It’s also worth noting that Mosley Street in this direction is tram only, so we’re not interfering with rubber tyres vehicles, although they often get in our way!

 

[Intercity 225]

Nottingham no longer has 80kmh sections of track. The top speed is now 70kmh.

Is this on the former Robin Hood Line section?

 

[geoffk]

Is this on the former Robin Hood Line section?

The Clifton line uses part of the old Great Central main line between Wilford Lane and Ruddington Lane, where 80 kmh must be easily achievable.

 

[geoffk]

You’re correct in your assumption that the progressive switch to Line Of Sight driving is slowing us down. It’s as annoying to us drivers as it is to you.

Most manual turn backs have a 15mph (yes we do have all of our speeds in MPH) just in case they are in the reverse position requiring a tram to push through them. I have been unable to find a decent answer as to why the line controller cannot just advise the driver that the points are reverse but hey ho.

On the smaller junctions such as Trafford Depot gates, Queens Road junction etc, there are currently long standing TSRs in place due to points control issues. However, The larger junctions with poor sight lines, so Trafford Bar and Irk Valley, are nominally 15 anyway. We also have a number of long standing TSRs at Altrincham due to track conditions. TSRs have red numbers on the boards.

Mosley Street on the Inbound line is currently 20 MPH, this is due to a blanket speed restriction imposed on ALL vehicles across the city centre. This has been in place for around a year and also affects Aytoun Street on the Piccadilly branch and Cross Street on 2CC.
On the Outbound line on Mosley Street, the normal speeds would be 10 for the chicane outside the alchemist, increasing to 20 past the bank of China and reducing to 15 for the Nicholas and Booth Street unsignalled junction. This is an unsignalled junction with horrendous sight lines and an unfortunate accident record. There is currently a 10MPH TSR in place past the bank of China whilst building work is taking place that has resulted in scaffolding being erected. This scaffolding is interfering with the pavement and making the already terrible sight lines for Nicholas/Booth St much worse.
It’s also worth noting that Mosley Street in this direction is tram only, so we’re not interfering with rubber tyres vehicles, although they often get in our way!

Thanks for these comments. Good to hear from someone with direct experience.

 

[TC60054]

The Clifton line uses part of the old Great Central main line between Wilford Lane and Ruddington Lane, where 80 kmh must be easily achievable.

Phase 2 (Clifton / Toton) of NET was only ever designed for 70kmh.

The former 80kmh stretches between Wilkinson Street - Basford and up the Hucknall branch have all been reduced to 70kmh, and have been as such for well over a year now. Not much point in having 80kmh sections when most of your fleet is limited to 70.

 

[Robertj21a]

I'm just surprised that some lines have such sharp bends that the speed is so much reduced (and the screeching so much more !!). The Metrolink line to the airport is one of the newer routes and yet there are at least 3 really sharp bends included - Nottingham has at least a couple that I can readily think of (on the Toton line).
Was there really no alternative that could have eased the angle a bit, was there a reluctance to realign the roads/junctions or was it down to simply cost ?

 

[WatcherZero]

Generally comes down to cost and land availability. In some places there may not be room for a gentler curve while in others the cost would be prohibitive or force an alternate longer route that for example was more obstructive to other traffic or made pedestrian routes unsafe.

 

[Robertj21a]

I'm just surprised that some lines have such sharp bends that the speed is so much reduced (and the screeching so much more !!). The Metrolink line to the airport is one of the newer routes and yet there are at least 3 really sharp bends included - Nottingham has at least a couple that I can readily think of (on the Toton line).
Was there really no alternative that could have eased the angle a bit, was there a reluctance to realign the roads/junctions or was it down to simply cost ?

Thanks, as I thought - short term gain for long term pain.

 

[edwin_m]

Thanks, as I thought - short term gain for long term pain.

Or alternatively adapting to the existing urban environment rather than smashing through it?

The Nottingham tram seems very slow through the university campus, but that is one of the main destinations it is serving. It is one reason why it's not the answer to bringing HS2 passengers from Toton into central Nottingham.

 

[kevjs]

I'm just surprised that some lines have such sharp bends that the speed is so much reduced (and the screeching so much more !!). The Metrolink line to the airport is one of the newer routes and yet there are at least 3 really sharp bends included - Nottingham has at least a couple that I can readily think of (on the Toton line).
Was there really no alternative that could have eased the angle a bit, was there a reluctance to realign the roads/junctions or was it down to simply cost ?

Good god, the squealing at Lenton Lane/Gregory Street is horrific and getting worse, the newer trams being noticeably louder than the old ones. There's also a tight bend in Hockley (near Lace Market stop) which was rather loud until they relayed the track (last year?) and a couple of others at either end of Coronation Street in Wilford (but they are nowhere near as loud).