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Why are people opposed to HS2? (And other HS2 discussion)

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The Ham

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Grannyjoans said:
Don't most big projects like this end up costing 5 times more than what they expected ?
So maybe £500 billion ?
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Any examples where this has been the case?

Yes there's often over spend, but 5x must be fairly rare and certainly not most.
 
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The Nomad

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Grannyjoans said:
Don't most big projects like this end up costing 5 times more than what they expected ?
So maybe £500 billion ?
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As we're making up wild assumptions with no evidence, I'd also like to suggest small project have the biggest percentage overruns than large ones. Thus reallocating the HS2 budget to lots of little upgrades as a few are obsessive to do would incur greater cost overruns.
 
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Geezertronic

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PR1Berske said:
But why should it be more expensive?
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When I was a kid, Mars Bars were 15p. Why are they 50p or over now (and smaller)? Also Freddo's used to be a lot cheaper than they are now, why is that?

And my first job when I left college many years ago was earning £3750 a year which was a lot to me then, not so now though - why is that?
 
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YorkshireBear

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49420332

BBC said:
The government is launching a review of high-speed rail link HS2 - with a “go or no-go" decision to be made by the end of the year, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has said.

The review will consider whether and how the project should proceed, taking into account benefits, affordability and deliverability.

A final report will be sent to the government in the autumn.

Mr Shapps refused to rule out scrapping the project entirely.

When asked about the £7bn already spent on HS2, he said: "Just because you've spent a lot of money on something does not mean you should plough more and more money into it."
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As suspected when BoJo came to power.
 
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RLBH

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PR1Berske said:
Shapps is right to point out that you shouldn't just keep spending money for the sake of it. If the review finds that it's no longer financially viable, the government will have to act.
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If the review finds that the case for it is still valid, which is just as likely (if not more so), then cancelling it anyway will stink to high heaven.
 
jfowkes

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...with a “go or no-go" decision to be made by the end of the year...
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There's already been a "go" decision. This just makes it sound like HS2 is still in the planning, design and consent stages rather than a project that's being built right now. By the end of the year ever more real, physical work will have been done.
 
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PR1Berske

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jfowkes said:
There's already been a "go" decision. This just makes it sound like HS2 is still in the planning, design and consent stages rather than a project that's being built right now. By the end of the year ever more real, physical work will have been done.
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It will be in the scope of this review to allow Euston/Camden to have works there complete while HS2 itself is scrapped.
 
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JamesT

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jfowkes said:
There's already been a "go" decision. This just makes it sound like HS2 is still in the planning, design and consent stages rather than a project that's being built right now. By the end of the year ever more real, physical work will have been done.
Click to expand...

Not entirely, the big decision point was postponed earlier in the year https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/notice-to-proceed-this-year-on-hs2-phase-1-work
Thus far it’s only been relatively minor enabling works than major construction.
 
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Robin87

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A lot of people have politicized HS2. I've even seen the Scottish independence debate brought into it. I'm actually for HS2, but there are other Scots angry about it because they don't think Scottish taxpayers should be funding it all. I think it will benefit Scotland though, as high speed rail will eventually be extended further north. Some people don't see the long-term benefits.
 
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The Ham

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Robin87 said:
A lot of people have politicized HS2. I've even seen the Scottish independence debate brought into it. I'm actually for HS2, but there are other Scots angry about it because they don't think Scottish taxpayers should be funding it all. I think it will benefit Scotland though, as high speed rail will eventually be extended further north. Some people don't see the long-term benefits.
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It also sees speed improvements for those traveling to London and Birmingham (the latter is true after Western Arm is complete).

Glasgow to:

  • Birmingham, HS2 time 200 minutes, current time 242 minutes (4:02 falling to 3:20)
  • London, HS2 time 220 minutes, current time 270 minutes (4:30 falling to 3:40)

There would also be capacity improvements for those traveling along the ECML.

If the rumours are to be believed, where there could be 125mph running without the need for tilt on the Northern WCML due to there not being tilt on HS2 services, then there's scope for faster journey times to Manchester as well.
 
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Robin87

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The Ham said:
It also sees speed improvements for those traveling to London and Birmingham (the latter is true after Western Arm is complete).

Glasgow to:

  • Birmingham, HS2 time 200 minutes, current time 242 minutes (4:02 falling to 3:20)
  • London, HS2 time 220 minutes, current time 270 minutes (4:30 falling to 3:40)
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I have tried to point out the reduced travel time, but most can't see the bigger picture. They think it's just 'England taking advantage of Scotland' etc. It's time that Britain had a dedicated high-speed network, like how Japan has the Shinkansen.
 
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keithboddey

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HS2 is built and running.
Someone living at Wolverhampton needs to get to London.
Compare speed and train changes options ?

A direct pendolino..or change at New Street and get to Curzoin Street?
 
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6Gman

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PR1Berske said:
It will be in the scope of this review to allow Euston/Camden to have works there complete while HS2 itself is scrapped.
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You seem to have an affection for the Euston/Camden works.

What purpose would they serve if HS2 was scrapped?

EDIT: I see you have (sort of) responded. But not to those pointing out that some extra platforms in a new trainshed does nothing to increase capacity on the south WCML.
 
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hwl

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6Gman said:
You seem to have an affection for the Euston/Camden works.

What purpose would they serve if HS2 was scrapped?
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A very expensive way of annoying Bo Jo's dad who lives very near by?;)
 
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RealTrains07

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Will HS2 have fast services transferred over to it which currently run fast along most of the south WCML??

I know its meant to have it own services with new trains and all but nothing capacity wise is going to change on the WCML if HS2 will only add more trains on to it?

Would someone mind clarifying?
 
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JonathanH

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RealTrains07 said:
Will HS2 have fast services transferred over to it which currently run fast along most of the south WCML??

I know its meant to have it own services with new trains and all but nothing capacity wise is going to change on the WCML if HS2 will only add more trains on to it?

Would someone mind clarifying?
Click to expand...

A number of trains don't stop for some distance after leaving Euston - eg xx00 Manchester is first stop Stoke, xx03 Birmingham is first stop Rugby, xx07 Liverpool is first stop Stafford, xx30 Glasgow is first stop Warrington, xx40 Manchester is first stop Crewe. These don't need to be on the south WCML if there is another line. By moving these off the south WCML you can run more trains that stop at Watford, Milton Keynes and Rugby (and perhaps other stops as well).

As an example of why the extra line is needed, the xx23 stops at Watford. The next departure from Euston is xx30. Stopping the xx23 at Watford means you can't run a train three minutes behind and you lose a path. If all trains are non-stop on HS2 (obviously noting that they stop on alternate platforms at Old Oak Common) you can use all 18 paths in an hour rather than 13 on the WCML at present (in an off-peak hour), hence why you can as many fast services on HS2 as you can on the WCML, MML and ECML put together (if it all gets built).
 
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ABB125

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Does anyone know any details about Midlands Connect's new HS2 proposals? All I can find is things like "amendments to the junction at the East Midlands Hub" to allow through Nottingham services. What junction is this? I wasn't aware of any junctions at the EM Hub.

The news articles also seem to imply that the route of HS2 will go via (or close to) Leicester. Is this correct? It doesn't seem to be a very direct route.
 
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