Why are people opposed to HS2? (And other HS2 discussion)

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by ABB125, 24 Jan 2019.

  1. Polarbear

    Polarbear Established Member

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    That does tend to be the level of arguments against HS2. I spend a bit of time on Twitter defending HS2, against some who just cannot see that if you put that much extra capacity within the overall network, a good part of the network will become a lot easier to operate, less congested, & with much better availability of seating etc.

    The main arguments against HS2 seem to be;

    • It costs too much
    • It won’t do anything for “my” journey
    • Better spent on improving the existing network
    • Environmental issues
    A number of those I respond to on Twitter live on or near the route, and feel they’ve been hard done by as regards compensation. Whilst I obviously don’t know any specific circumstances, I’d guess that an interlinked reason would be that their property is no longer the investment/cash cow it may have been had they been able to sell to another buyer or pass it to family.
     
  2. Meole

    Meole Member

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    There is no benefit to either Scotland or Wales from the largest potential capital expenditure post Brexit this reflects very badly on a supposed union.
     
  3. Polarbear

    Polarbear Established Member

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    Are faster journey times between London, the Midlands & Scotland not a benefit? Although Wales doesn’t derive much direct benefit, I’d like to see the North Wales to London service become hourly from the Welsh areas it serves, not just Chester southward.
     
  4. tomuk

    tomuk Member

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    What rubbish. Journey times between Scotland and the south will be reduced by at least an hour. Journeys from North and Mid will also be improved. eg Aberystwyth to Leeds via Birmingham will be about an hour quicker.
    Not to mention the capacity freed up on the non HS2 routes will be beneficial. You could increase North Wales - London WCML services.
     
  5. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    So what, given that England represents 84.3% of the UK population yet Scotland and Wales combined populations account for less than 13% of the UK total.
    On that basis, if we ignore the incorrect statement that only England benefits from the £56Bn investment in HS2, then Scotland should be satisfied with benefitting from UK public funds to the value of £5.5Bn and Wales with £3.13Bn.
     
  6. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    Quicker journey times are not of any benefit to Scotland then? And possibly Wales if they change at brum?
     
  7. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Established Member

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    Even aside from that there are benefits from HS2 to Scotland (and possibly marginally to Wales), this makes no sense. Do you expect *every* item of capital expenditure to benefit every part of the Union? That would rule out just about everything that is geography-specific (such as the South Wales metro, or the Aberdeen-Inverness upgrades or the London Bridge rebuild). What we should be aiming for is for overall capital expenditure over all projects to be distributed in such a way that every part of the union benefits to a reasonable extent from some projects. (Of course the fact that Scotland and Wales are to some extent responsible for determining their own capital expenditure projects complicates this a bit. I think the same is true in Northern Ireland but not so sure of the situation there).

    And by the way, why did you mention Scotland and Wales but not Northern Ireland? To paraphrase your own logic, doesn't that reflect rather badly on how you view the supposed Union? ;)
     
  8. Facing Back

    Facing Back Member

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    Could anybody tell me how full the Glasgow-Preston trains are in the morning peak? Its a route I only take at quieter times. I know how busy it is from Preston to London.
     
  9. ohgoditsjames

    ohgoditsjames Member

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    As silly and ridiculous as your post is don’t Scotland want a second referendum to leave the Union so why would they want hand outs from the “Evil” British government? ;)
     
  10. si404

    si404 Member

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    Don't forget the frequency increase for Edinburgh and Glasgow, and that North Wales can change at Crewe for HS2 services.
     
  11. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    The reply from Meole to all of this debunking his point is deafening. :)
     
  12. kevin_roche

    kevin_roche Member

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    Has HS2 become so toxic that nobody wants this job?

    https://www.newcivilengineer.com/la...m-curzon-street-contractor-search-11-07-2019/

    And Building says:



    https://www.building.co.uk/news/hs2...-worried-contractors-shun-job/5100576.article
     
    Last edited: 11 Jul 2019
  13. RLBH

    RLBH Member

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    Based on what's happened with other public sector contracts, it sounds pretty clear that HS2 Ltd expected the contractor to take on all the cost and schedule risk on a very complex project. Which means lots of risk. Contractors don't like that, so will either refuse to bid or put in a very high bid in recognition of the risk. HS2 Ltd have looked at that response to the tender, been forced to accept that farming out the risk like that isn't going to get them a good contract, and will come up with a new tender package where more of the risk is kept in-house.
     
  14. Geezertronic

    Geezertronic Established Member

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    It looks to have gone quiet around the Birmingham Interchange area, there looks to be some pylon moving going on by the M42 by Coleshill Heath Road but not much else to be honest
     

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