Why are there no ticket inspectors on national rail trains coming into london?

[Class377]

They'd have to have got on at somewhere like Watford West...

They'd have to be doing very well to get on there!

(At the very least, if they gave Watford West as an origin when questioned you'd know they were fibbing)

 

[Antman]

I travel from Tunbridge Wells to London quite frequently and I see ticket inspectors on the trains EVERY single time.

The UK's biggest known fare dodger doesn't appear to have encountered any ticket inspectors on his daily commute between Stonegate and Central London
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On Southern my ticket is checked on average twice a week in to London, invariably before Edenbridge. I can only recall one occasion in when it has been checked between East Croydon and London Bridge, and I cant recall the last time we had a ticket check on the way home, or rather not on a peak hour service. Regularly gets checked on a day time journey home.

I can't recall ever having an on train ticket check between East Croydon and London Bridge or Victoria and I use those routes a lot

 

[PermitToTravel]

These trains have commercial Guards, but most seem remain in the back cab (between Watford Jn and Euston) in my experience*.

There'd not really be much point - a very good deal of the people on the train after Watford will be on Oyster or contactless (the vast majority after Harrow, should the train call there) and LM guards can't do anything but look at those and trust that they've been touched in.

 

[Busaholic]

Annoying - get on a 507 bus in London and watch those who do not swipe in and (in some respects) meet the stereotypes. Bendy-buses were "free rides"

Please don't forget there are people with valid tickets for that journey who neither have the facility or the need to touch in. I am one such and used this service only four days ago.As it happens, a couple of ticket inspectors were seated on board and soon revealed themselves: I was happy to present my ticket (in the form of a card) for visual inspection and was thanked with a smile. As far as I could see all passengers present were in possession of valid tickets or permits to travel.

 

[Starmill]

Out of interest, is it South West Trains policy that non-commercial guards do not check tickets? Merseyrail guards can check tickets in the Merseytravel area - although not many seem to take up the option and never in the tunnel sections. What can they do if they find someone who doesn't have a ticket who should? Invite the passenger to leave at the next stop, and request the assistance of the station staff there. Not amazingly effective, but better than nothing - although rather less practical in SWTland I'd guess!

 

[TEW]

SWT non-commercial guards do not check tickets but they should be patrolling the train regularly in order to offer help and assistance to passengers.

 

[TimG]

They can hardly be expected remember who has been checked and who hasn't but can't check everyone on the train repeatedly. Once inside the m25 during rush hour its also physically impossible to get down the trains.

 

[Hadders]

On a slightly different (but related) note I wonder how many passengers travel on expensive Anytime tickets when an Off-peak, route via x, or TOC y only ticket would allow them to make exactly the same journey for a cheaper price.

That's before we even start looking at split tickets, starting/finishing short....

Ticket less travel is wrong but it probably all evens out for the TOC's in the end.

 

[WestCoast]

In my experience it's the same for London Midland in the West Midlands area, on the Cross City line. The trains carry commercial guards from what I can tell, but I've only ever seen them check (and sell) tickets outside the Centro PTE area. Inside that area (most of the route), there aren't many barriers but I have seen occasional roving inspectors, presumably with the ability to issue PFs.

 

[GodAtum]

I have never had my ticket checked on Southern for the last 6 months or so

 

[Simon11]

ScotRail seem to get by with both barriers and on train checks.

Are you sure? With no Penalty fare, I view it as travel and pay when requested by a member of staff or faced by a gate line:roll: If you really are wanting to fare evade, a simple orange ticket will be fine from staff and accepted by staff at the gateline to let you through:roll:

 

[GatwickDepress]

I have never had my ticket checked on Southern for the last 6 months or so

I can count the number of Southern trains I haven't been checked on one hand. But then again I travel the entirety of two long services, so I have no chance of missing one!

 

[yorkie]

... a simple orange ticket will be fine from staff and accepted by staff at the gateline to let you through:roll:

There will always be some staff who do this but I think that's an exception rather than standard practice at Scotrail. I've heard of several incidents of people have their tickets rejected by either gateline or on-train staff (even when conforming to the itinerary provided).

 

[Antman]

I have never had my ticket checked on Southern for the last 6 months or so

On the Uckfield and Seaford branches is the only ticket check I've had on Southern recently

 

[SJN]

In my experience it's the same for London Midland in the West Midlands area, on the Cross City line. The trains carry commercial guards from what I can tell, but I've only ever seen them check (and sell) tickets outside the Centro PTE area. Inside that area (most of the route), there aren't many barriers but I have seen occasional roving inspectors, presumably with the ability to issue PFs.

On the cross city, the stops are generally two mins apart and the door controls are either in the cab or in the middle of the train so to do a full ticket check would probably mean delaying the train. After Blake Street or Longbridge, there is more time to do a ticket check and will generally be done then.

 

[TheNewNo2]

Was checked onboard a Jubilee line train last year but apart from that I haven't been checked onboard an LU train for years.

Well the tube has a pretty good system for it. First off, in most places it's impossible to even get on the network without going through a ticket barrier in the first place. A bigger worry might be incorrect routing, but it assumes you went the expensive way unless you touch in elsewhere.

I suppose in principle one could get off a c2c train at West Ham, use the Jubilee Line to Bond Street, get on the Central to Ealing Broadway and get on an FGW train while totally avoiding ticket inspection, but it seems an unlikely activity.

 

[Clip]

Well the tube has a pretty good system for it. First off, in most places it's impossible to even get on the network without going through a ticket barrier in the first place. A bigger worry might be incorrect routing, but it assumes you went the expensive way unless you touch in elsewhere.

I suppose in principle one could get off a c2c train at West Ham, use the Jubilee Line to Bond Street, get on the Central to Ealing Broadway and get on an FGW train while totally avoiding ticket inspection, but it seems an unlikely activity.

You could in theory get all the way to Banbury from far east if you wanted too.

I do see the inspectors on LUL though - they normally stop me just as I go through the barriers and theyre always plain clothed so the chances of people telling them from anyone else is slim. LO inspectors are in uniform though

 

[plasmaxx]

I specifically mean ticket checking at London overgroundstations/terminals. I.e. when the midlands train enters Harrow Wealdstone and goes to London Euston or the London overground from Stratford to Clapham Junction or the Milton Keynes to South/East Croydon stopping at all the London overground stations.

I often take the southwest train from Clapham junction to Epsom and have yet to come across a single ticket inspector. I have also never seen a ticket inspector from harrow Wealdstone to east Croydon or from West Hampstead to Clapham junction.

I'm polish and I've witnessed couple of my own people speaking in Polish saying they have not got a valid ticket. Similarly I have Italian and Spanish friends who have also said the same thing, but obviously overhearing their own spoken languages.

N.B. Indeed, West Brompton has barriers ALTHOUGH it's also got a passage way with NO barriers where people can get on and off the overground platforms quite easily. The barriers are for the underground services.

 

[PermitToTravel]

LO inspectors are in uniform though

All of them? I'm surprised that there are TOCs that don't make use of plain-clothes inspectors - LU (and London Buses) do very successfully!

 

[Starmill]

LO inspectors are in uniform though

STM Uniforms!

 

[Clip]

Well all the uniform and branding says it LO. In fact Im unsure if they use plain clothes as not encountered any yet nor an outside sec firm.

 

[Wolfie]

Unlike most stations in London, West Brompton does have barriers.

Most? That is one heck of an (erroneous) assertion!
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West Brompton does have barriers, are you thinking of Kensington Olympia which didn't have them until recently?
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How do you know how many passengers don't have the right ticket or no ticket at all?

As others have said there are probably a variety of reasons for the lack of ticket checks not least of all the fact that most stations have barriers although these are by no means foolproof, tailgating other passengers through them is by no means unusual in London.

I have seen a few ticket checks on LO trains but never on LU.

Indeed, not least because inside the zones contactless payment can be used....
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You could in theory get all the way to Banbury from far east if you wanted too.

I do see the inspectors on LUL though - they normally stop me just as I go through the barriers and theyre always plain clothed so the chances of people telling them from anyone else is slim. LO inspectors are in uniform though

I've seen LO inspectors in plain clothes with badges round their necks... but then l do useO/LU everyday unlike many of those who have been commenting...

 

[Antman]

I specifically mean ticket checking at London overgroundstations/terminals. I.e. when the midlands train enters Harrow Wealdstone and goes to London Euston or the London overground from Stratford to Clapham Junction or the Milton Keynes to South/East Croydon stopping at all the London overground stations.

I often take the southwest train from Clapham junction to Epsom and have yet to come across a single ticket inspector. I have also never seen a ticket inspector from harrow Wealdstone to east Croydon or from West Hampstead to Clapham junction.

I'm polish and I've witnessed couple of my own people speaking in Polish saying they have not got a valid ticket. Similarly I have Italian and Spanish friends who have also said the same thing, but obviously overhearing their own spoken languages.

N.B. Indeed, West Brompton has barriers ALTHOUGH it's also got a passage way with NO barriers where people can get on and off the overground platforms quite easily. The barriers are for the underground services.

Yes there is barrier free access between LO and LU at West Brompton
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All of them? I'm surprised that there are TOCs that don't make use of plain-clothes inspectors - LU (and London Buses) do very successfully!

Do they? I have never been asked for a ticket on LU and I certainly haven't on the buses for several years, and I use both regularly.

 

[plasmaxx]

I overheard one on Polish woman who said that she only buys a zones 5-6 to Epsom. She gets on the Piccadilly Line from Hounslow West, a zone 5 station and goes to Clapham Junction and then straight to Epsom via Southwest trains, thereby avoiding zones 2-4.

Her friend asked whether she has ever got caught and she responded by saying she carries an oyster card and if she ever does get caught she will say to the ticket inspector that she tapped in but it accidently didn't process it...but she stated that she has never been checked.

What she is doing is clearly wrong and also shows a flaw in the system. She also said her friend has been caught and fined by the LOROL (London overground rails operations ltd) prosecutions teams but she (her friend) still continues to do it because they don't even record her name on file apparently.

 

[Clip]

I've seen LO inspectors in plain clothes with badges round their necks... but then l do useO/LU everyday unlike many of those who have been commenting...

Ive not seen the plain clothes ones yet and I use it pretty frequently but mainly late at night at the southern end of the ELL

Do they? I have never been asked for a ticket on LU and I certainly haven't on the buses for several years, and I use both regularly.

Pop south of the river that's where they hide I think

 

[Antman]

I overheard one on Polish woman who said that she only buys a zones 5-6 to Epsom. She gets on the Piccadilly Line from Hounslow West, a zone 5 station and goes to Clapham Junction and then straight to Epsom via Southwest trains, thereby avoiding zones 2-4.

Her friend asked whether she has ever got caught and she responded by saying she carries an oyster card and if she ever does get caught she will say to the ticket inspector that she tapped in but it accidently didn't process it...but she stated that she has never been checked.

What she is doing is clearly wrong and also shows a flaw in the system. She also said her friend has been caught and fined by the LOROL (London overground rails operations ltd) prosecutions teams but she (her friend) still continues to do it because they don't even record her name on file apparently.

I suspect a lot of people use that trick with the oyster card. I was on a LO train a while back and two RPI's got on, they told one bloke that his oyster card had not been validated but he was adamant that he had touched in at South Kenton where there is a reader but no barriers, whether he was telling the truth who knows? Anyway he said he was changing to the Bakerloo Line at Queens Park and they told him to validate it there, I've no idea whether he did or not.
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Ive not seen the plain clothes ones yet and I use it pretty frequently but mainly late at night at the southern end of the ELL



Pop south of the river that's where they hide I think

I live south of the river, I hope you're not implying that us Sarf Londoners are a bit dodgy

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Also there are rail stations in Greater London that still don't have barriers. West Brompton is one example

Elephant & Castle main-line station does not have ticket barriers. And every time I have to visit the 'Castle, I see RPI's - even on a Saturday.

And I travelled from St Albans to Elephant last Saturday and an RPI boarded at St Albans and was checking tickets en-route to London. And this particular service was a Bedford - Brighton semi that ran fast from St Albans to West Hampstead

 

[WestCoast]

All of them? I'm surprised that there are TOCs that don't make use of plain-clothes inspectors - LU (and London Buses) do very successfully!

I'm also surprised plain clothed inspectors aren't more common on TOCs in the UK. They use them on the buses/trams/underground here in Munich, the system is completely without barriers. The doors close and they present their IDs. I've seen them in various forms, three older ladies with shopping bags, three guys dressed like tourists. Rather amusing!
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On the cross city, the stops are generally two mins apart and the door controls are either in the cab or in the middle of the train so to do a full ticket check would probably mean delaying the train. After Blake Street or Longbridge, there is more time to do a ticket check and will generally be done then.

This is very true, I have seen checks on other LM services within the Centro PTE area. The Cross City is very "metro like" for the most part.

 

[Antman]

Elephant & Castle main-line station does not have ticket barriers. And every time I have to visit the 'Castle, I see RPI's - even on a Saturday.

And I travelled from St Albans to Elephant last Saturday and an RPI boarded at St Albans and was checking tickets en-route to London. And this particular service was a Bedford - Brighton semi that ran fast from St Albans to West Hampstead

I've passed through Elephant & Castle loads of times and there has been no ticket checks just the occasional high profile operation with BTP and sniffer dogs etc.
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I'm also surprised plain clothed inspectors aren't more common on TOCs in the UK. They use them on the buses/trams/underground here in Munich, the system is completely without barriers. The doors close and they present their IDs. I've seen them in various forms, three older ladies with shopping bags, three guys dressed like tourists. Rather amusing!
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This is very true, I have seen checks on other LM services within the Centro PTE area. The Cross City is very "metro like" for the most part.

I'm not really sure what the advantage is of plain clothed RPI's, surely the whole point is that they stand out and hopefully deter fare evasion just as uniformed security staff in supermarkets hopefully deter shoplifting?

 

[jon0844]

Isn't it more worrying to not have a clue who is an inspector? We all see those who spend most of their journey looking out for uniformed staff (and, as expected, quickly move if they see them). Not so easy when the person sitting next to you jumps into action - especially if you're with someone else and was stupid enough to discuss your ticketing arrangements.