Why are Virgin trains so precious about their wifi?

[joncombe]

I booked a journey with Virgin Trains (East Coast) on 15th May for travel on 5th August but when I paid I got the message

We were unable to send an email containing details of your order. You can retry on the confirmation page

I didn't worry at the time, I wrote down the collection number and collected the tickets with that, no problem. But then I realised I don't have the Wifi code. So I tried to go to the website to get it, because I know you can get previously booked journeys through it. But it wouldn't let me in and said I had to re-register. Having done that, when I get as far as viewing previous booking it said that now I must "verify" my account and sent me an email. I clicked the link in the email to verify my account and then got the message

"Sorry something went wrong when trying to verify your email address. Please try again".

I gave up with their website and asked the twitter team if they could give me the code. I sent them a message (as requested) with the booking reference but they told me they needed a photo of the booking confirmation email! I told them I didn't have it but offered to send a photo of the tickets. This apparently is no good they have to have a photo of the booking confirmation email. I explained why I didn't have the email and sent them the error I got, and I pointed out that if I had the email I wouldn't be asking for the code, because the Wifi code is in the email!

I did eventually get the wifi code but only for 1 way, not the return journey.

I don't understand why Virgin Trains are so precious about Wifi access. It is only free if you book on their website (unlike most other TOCs) and requires a code to access (again unlike other TOCs). I don't understand why they have to make it so hard!

 

[Huntergreed]

I believe that the bandwidth onboard cannot support the whole train using the wifi constantly, so they will offer it to customers who booked through their own website as a bonus to try and encourage passengers to always book through the VTEC website!

I have noticed that on VTWC most people have to pay for wifi regardless of where they bought their tickets, but because I have downloaded the "Virgin Red" app, I can get codes to use it for free. I believe Virgin prefer to offer wifi to their more loyal customers in return for their custom.

 

[cf111]

We used to get codes through our corporate travel agent if we booked a VTEC train but no more.

 

[westv]

I normally use my dongle wifi thingy when on VTEC but the onboard wifi when with Hull Trains.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

A recent XKCD cartoon on wifi vs cellular reliability...

https://xkcd.com/1865/

 

[harz99]

Both my last two journeys on Virgin East Coast connected to wifi, but unable to connect to internet, so codes useless. Also still had the old East Coast wifi as well the Virgin version, both showing live?

 

[Carlisle]

I believe that the bandwidth onboard cannot support the whole train .

I guess they're not investing in a better system because of the impending arrival of the Azuma.

 

[theironroad]

I believe that the bandwidth onboard cannot support the whole train using the wifi constantly, so they will offer it to customers who booked through their own website as a bonus to try and encourage passengers to always book through the VTEC website!

This annoys me.

If you book a cheap advance deal through their website you get free WiFi.

If you've turned up at the station and probably paid significantly more for a ticket, you then have to pay for WiFi.

A masterclass in how to alienate your customers, and to add to the insult they advertise it in pretty much all seat backs for you to stare at during the journey.

 

[yorkie]

Both my last two journeys on Virgin East Coast connected to wifi, but unable to connect to internet, so codes useless. Also still had the old East Coast wifi as well the Virgin version, both showing live?

You can claim some compensation under consumer law. See Now that consumer law applies, what happens if complimentary catering is unavailable? and http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/CRACustomerFAQs.pdf

The fact the company is making a big deal of the provision of Wifi and issuing codes, and stating these codes are an advantage of booking on their website, means that anyone whose decision to purchase is based on such information being presented at the time of purchase, is entitled to compensation.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I dont even bother with the vast majority of train WiFi anyway unless its free and half decent, ATW being a good example here but on my rare ventures onto the ECML I find 4g generally good.

 

[SaveECRewards]

This annoys me.

If you book a cheap advance deal through their website you get free WiFi.

If you've turned up at the station and probably paid significantly more for a ticket, you then have to pay for WiFi.

A masterclass in how to alienate your customers, and to add to the insult they advertise it in pretty much all seat backs for you to stare at during the journey.

VTEC are good at alienating their highest spenders. I hear on Twitter about people getting lounge passes, cheap upgrade offers and targeted promotions but even after spending over £6k last year I haven't received any benefits in 2016/17. The last one was free tickets in December 2015 which many people got and raised expectations for a more rewarding 2016 which never happened.

The East Coast Rewards scheme was fairer, a one day lounge pass only needed 50 points so it was within easy reach for those that wanted the occasional lounge trip, but those who travelled a lot could choose to buy a longer period lounge pass with their points. It's better than hoping you get sent one randomly. You can't base your travel choices on something they might do.

 

[Bantamzen]

This annoys me.

If you book a cheap advance deal through their website you get free WiFi.

If you've turned up at the station and probably paid significantly more for a ticket, you then have to pay for WiFi.

A masterclass in how to alienate your customers, and to add to the insult they advertise it in pretty much all seat backs for you to stare at during the journey.

You've kind of answered your own problem, if its an issue then book on-line! OK I know sometimes journeys have to be arranged at the last minute, but even if a trip is arranged late one day for the next online booking is still an option.

I've seen it so many times where someone pays full fat for a VTEC ticket on an early morning commuter train, and you have to wonder why they simply didn't book online. Not only could they get that free WiFi, but they could have saved themselves, or more likely their company (and by proxy their customers) a hundred or more pounds (for Leeds-London journeys in this case).

 

[Hadders]

I've seen it so many times where someone pays full fat for a VTEC ticket on an early morning commuter train, and you have to wonder why they simply didn't book online. Not only could they get that free WiFi, but they could have saved themselves, or more likely their company (and by proxy their customers) a hundred or more pounds (for Leeds-London journeys in this case).

An Advance ticket purchased online via the VTEC website is the same price as an Advance ticket purchased at the station (when purchased at the same time).

A 'walk on' ticket purchased online is the same price as one purchased at the station on the day of travel.

Someone planning ahead and purchasing an Advance ticket ahead of travel (whether online or at a station) can make a significant saving compared to a 'walk on' ticket although this does result in a loss of flexibility.

I also see many examples where people pay much more than they need to but not everyone is able to plan ahead.

 

[Bantamzen]

An Advance ticket purchased online via the VTEC website is the same price as an Advance ticket purchased at the station (when purchased at the same time).

A 'walk on' ticket purchased online is the same price as one purchased at the station on the day of travel.

Someone planning ahead and purchasing an Advance ticket ahead of travel (whether online or at a station) can make a significant saving compared to a 'walk on' ticket although this does result in a loss of flexibility.

I also see many examples where people pay much more than they need to but not everyone is able to plan ahead.

I understand that some people cannot plan ahead, but I've mentioned before that I've seen many people paying full whack for a VTEC ticket on my morning commute, (usually I connect with the 06:47 Guiseley – Leeds), and business people there are paying on the train with cards. Now I can't imagine that every one of those had a emergency call from a London office or client in the small hours, and I imagine many of those tickets would be on expenses so if I were the finance dept I'd be asking questions!

One other thing does occur to me, if WiFi is essential for the business traveller in particular, I for one would ensure that I had a suitable 3/4G back-up available as often the free & even paid for WiFi can be flaky or even completely down. Plus even though it is password controlled, I would always be slightly cautious using it for anything remotely sensitive or confidential as routers can be cloned easily in static locations so it is not beyond possible that a hacker might locate themselves on a known busy train and spoof the connection with a device with a 4G connection. It can be very handy to be able to work on the train, but at the same time I can't help but feel that the more that people do it the more the risk that they sooner or later might get exploited. If I ever do it I connect to the router only to download anything that hasn't already been, then wherever try to work of-line until the connection is needed again. Saying that most of my work is code based, and frankly even a quiet train is a distraction for me so generally I'll use any work travel to relax and prepare myself for whatever meeting I'm heading to.

 

[DarloRich]

Why are Virgin "precious" about their wifi?

Because it looks like they are giving you something as a bonus for being a loyal customer when actually they are giving you very little and at almost zero cost to them. It is all image and PR.

 

[boxy321]

One other thing does occur to me, if WiFi is essential for the business traveller in particular, I for one would ensure that I had a suitable 3/4G back-up available as often the free & even paid for WiFi can be flaky or even completely down. Plus even though it is password controlled, I would always be slightly cautious using it for anything remotely sensitive or confidential as routers can be cloned easily in static locations so it is not beyond possible that a hacker might locate themselves on a known busy train and spoof the connection with a device with a 4G connection. It can be very handy to be able to work on the train, but at the same time I can't help but feel that the more that people do it the more the risk that they sooner or later might get exploited. If I ever do it I connect to the router only to download anything that hasn't already been, then wherever try to work of-line until the connection is needed again. Saying that most of my work is code based, and frankly even a quiet train is a distraction for me so generally I'll use any work travel to relax and prepare myself for whatever meeting I'm heading to.

I have a friend who lectures in 'ethical' hacking at university. I must this suggest this as a project. Perhaps a man-in-the-middle attack from coach F on a pendolino with a spoof Virgin wi-fi connection for the email warriors further up? What this guy knows and can do is scary (although his work makes systems more secure, not less).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I now use my iPad on EE, on which I get perfect 4G connectivity on most of the bits of the network I use with any frequency. I even managed almost all the way from Milton Keynes to Edinburgh. Far, far better than VT's awful paid-for wifi.

 

[Chrism20]

I booked a journey with Virgin Trains (East Coast) on 15th May for travel on 5th August but when I paid I got the message



I didn't worry at the time, I wrote down the collection number and collected the tickets with that, no problem. But then I realised I don't have the Wifi code. So I tried to go to the website to get it, because I know you can get previously booked journeys through it. But it wouldn't let me in and said I had to re-register. Having done that, when I get as far as viewing previous booking it said that now I must "verify" my account and sent me an email. I clicked the link in the email to verify my account and then got the message

"Sorry something went wrong when trying to verify your email address. Please try again".

I gave up with their website and asked the twitter team if they could give me the code. I sent them a message (as requested) with the booking reference but they told me they needed a photo of the booking confirmation email! I told them I didn't have it but offered to send a photo of the tickets. This apparently is no good they have to have a photo of the booking confirmation email. I explained why I didn't have the email and sent them the error I got, and I pointed out that if I had the email I wouldn't be asking for the code, because the Wifi code is in the email!

I did eventually get the wifi code but only for 1 way, not the return journey.

I don't understand why Virgin Trains are so precious about Wifi access. It is only free if you book on their website (unlike most other TOCs) and requires a code to access (again unlike other TOCs). I don't understand why they have to make it so hard!

It can depend on the time of day and who you get on that social media desk as to what kind of response you get.

I've seen codes handed out willy nilly without having to message or anything and then I've seen them do what's happened here but that is VTEC all over - no consistency at all.

There are a few on that social media desk that seem to try and be as wide as possible.

 

[ashworth]

I recently booked an Off Peak Return from Mansfield to Newcastle using the VTEC website with reserved seat from Grantham to Newcastle (outward) and Newcastle to Retford (return). The main reason I booked in advance using their website, rather than paying on the day, was to get the free Wifi. It wasn't until my day of travel that I realised that there were no wifi codes on my booking confirmation. I showed my booking confirmation at the information desk at Grantham and they said there was nothing they could do but suggested I sent an email. Three weeks later I received a reply saying they were sorry that I wasn't provided with an email code and they hope it didn't cause me too much inconvenience and they hoped it would not happen again in the future. The wifi wasn't of extreme importance as I was only on a leisure trip and not wanting to use the wifi for business purposes but even a small amount of compensation would have been nice, perhaps just a £5 voucher as a goodwill gesture. I don't think I will use their website to book in advance again.

 

[mrmartin]

This is even more annoying considering that it was a franchise commitment to offer "superfast" 4G-based WiFi to all passengers on VTWC.

Despite doing a few FoIs I couldn't get anywhere with it. It seems VTWC has said "technically impossible" and from the FoI response from the DfT they've went "ok then nevermind". This despite it definitely is possible, considering Norwegian offer great WiFi on their intra EU flights for free, which is a damn sight harder than doing it on a train which as other posters have said has pretty damn good 4G coverage from most networks now.

 

[Eric]

They charged me £5 for a day pass yesterday. I was only travelling for 75 minutes but desperately needed to get online.

 

[route:oxford]

An Advance ticket purchased online via the VTEC website is the same price as an Advance ticket purchased at the station (when purchased at the same time).

Not always.

Virgin are quite prolific with their offers and most are online only.

On the EastCoast, between my Virgin Red App (which near permanently offers free WiFi codes for EC) and my employer schemes there are regular promotions.

Over on West Coast, my employer has negotiated a 20% discount off all advance fares - which makes a massive difference.

 

[Antman]

I believe that the bandwidth onboard cannot support the whole train using the wifi constantly

My experience is the service is utterly pathetic. I simply turned it off and went back to the far faster 4G.

 

[mrmartin]

My experience is the service is utterly pathetic. I simply turned it off and went back to the far faster 4G.

But the WiFi onboard uses the same damn 4G. It's ridiculous.

 

[SaveECRewards]

They charged me £5 for a day pass yesterday. I was only travelling for 75 minutes but desperately needed to get online.

On East Coast, if you need to pay for WiFi on-board, use this trick to get two WiFi codes for £1.30: http://saveecrewards.co.uk/blog/wifi

You can use your free 15 minutes to do this too!

Not only is £1.30 cheaper than £10 (as you get two codes, you can use the other on your next trip, saving £10, they're not tied to the day) but you get 2 Nectar points too (apparently customers love them)

You may need to do this if you need to book on something other than the VTEC site (e.g. to reserve cycle spaces) or your employer buys your ticket.

Not always.

Virgin are quite prolific with their offers and most are online only.

On the EastCoast, between my Virgin Red App (which near permanently offers free WiFi codes for EC) and my employer schemes there are regular promotions.

Over on West Coast, my employer has negotiated a 20% discount off all advance fares - which makes a massive difference.

The Virgin Red WiFi codes are for West Coast, East Coast you get the codes for booking online.

Here's the most important tip for Virgin Red. If you have two phones create two different Virgin Red accounts. One of them link to our VTWC and VTEC online accounts. The other one don't link to the accounts.

The reason is Virgin Red has different offers for existing customers and for new customers. The existing customer offers are shown when you link your account and are verified, but the new customer offers show when you're not linked.

 

[DackandBlecker]

It is all image and PR.

It's the Virgin Stagecoach way.

Just get a decent data allowance, and use ever expanding 4G coverage.
I gave up on on-train wi-fi a while ago.

 

[Wolfie]

I believe that the bandwidth onboard cannot support the whole train using the wifi constantly, so they will offer it to customers who booked through their own website as a bonus to try and encourage passengers to always book through the VTEC website!

I have noticed that on VTWC most people have to pay for wifi regardless of where they bought their tickets, but because I have downloaded the "Virgin Red" app, I can get codes to use it for free. I believe Virgin prefer to offer wifi to their more loyal customers in return for their custom.

With respect to Virgin West Coast that is truly pathetic and could well bite them in the bum at least with respect to shorter journeys given that both London Midland and Chiltern offer free wifi. How about they upgrade the current clapped out kit.....

 

[xotGD]

We book our work tickets through a corporate travel provider and I usually get complimentary wifi codes for VTEC. Otherwise it is a case of opening as many Web pages as I want to look during the 15 minutes and then reading offline.

 

[causton]

But the WiFi onboard uses the same damn 4G. It's ridiculous.

I think this is purely down to the number of people using it.

Let's say all 4G operators at a certain time at a certain place give 1Mbps.

So you use your phone and it gets 1Mbps.

If you connect to the WiFi, it might have, four SIM cards from different operators? Which gives you 4Mbps.

However 8 people are using the WiFi... so that only gives you 0.5Mbps each...

Very simplistic but I think this is why all onboard WiFi I have used is expensive (or for First Class only) i.e. VT, XC; unreliable i.e. LM; or heavily throttled i.e. Chiltern/ATW (IIRC).

 

[westv]

Very simplistic but I think this is why all onboard WiFi I have used is expensive (or for First Class only) i.e. VT, XC; unreliable i.e. LM; or heavily throttled i.e. Chiltern/ATW (IIRC).

I rarely have problems with Hull Trains free wifi in standard class.