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Why Aren't We Normal?

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Gutfright

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I note that all of the umpteen squillion EU polls on these forums show an overwhelming support for remaining in the European Union.

As we now know, this is the exact opposite of what the ordinary British, salt-of-the-Earth, decent British people of Britain want.

So why are we train fans so badly out of lockstep with this country?

I've suggested before that this might be down to the cost of rail travel, which is hella expensive. Maybe this skews the membership of RailUK forums towards the more well off?

It might also be that younger people at the very bottom of the socioeconomic spectrum are bullied out of expressing any sort of enthusiasm for trains at an early age? Maybe the ability to say "I think trains are awesome" without ridicule is an example of middle-class privilege?

I dunno. What are your theories?
 
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me123

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I think there's two big driving forces here.

1) We are a young forum. As has been noted elsewhere, lots of us are in our twenties. I'd wager that the forum membership, in terms of the age demographic, does not mirror the UK as a whole.
2) The forum is generally left leaning on the whole. Probably helped in no small part by the large number of railwaymen/union members, and again young people. I suspect that these groups would have been more likely to vote to remain than the general population. (Although I do note that the RMT backed leaving).

Neither of the above statements are exclusive - I know there are plenty of people who are older, and plenty of people who lean to the right. But I think that they are relatively underrepresented in our forum.
 

Harbornite

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As we now know, this is the exact opposite of what the ordinary British, salt-of-the-Earth, decent British people of Britain want.

So why are we train fans so badly out of lockstep with this country?

Nonsense. People can be proud of their country and support remaining (as am I). What do you consider as "ordinary British, salt-of-the-Earth, decent British people" anyway? Don't forget that 48% of us voted to remain and that isn't ny any means a small number.
 

yorkie

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Younger people were more likely to vote in with older people more likely to vote out. We're going to have more younger people on this forum than older people, that's fairly obvious.

The sort of places that were more likely to vote out were not such nice places with lower levels of tolerance e.g. Boston, while the likes of London & York were more likely to vote in. Again, we're more likely to have people from the latter places on this forum than the former!

I also think, based on what I've heard people saying, there's a correlation in intelligence too, with brighter people more likely to vote in. I only heard one person at work saying they wanted out and they're not the brightest!

People on this forum are also more likely to be well-travelled.

As we now know, this is the exact opposite of what the ordinary British, salt-of-the-Earth, decent British people of Britain want.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 

Harbornite

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Younger people were more likely to vote in with older people more likely to vote out. We're going to have more younger people on this forum than older people, that's fairly obvious.

The sort of places that were more likely to vote out were not such nice places with lower levels of tolerance e.g. Boston, while the likes of London & York were more likely to vote in. Again, we're more likely to have people from the latter places on this forum than the former!

I also think, based on what I've heard people saying, there's a correlation in intelligence too, with brighter people more likely to vote in. I only heard one person at work saying they wanted out and they're not the brightest!

People on this forum are also more likely to be well-travelled.

Agreed.
 

N228PF

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Who would want to be normal? That's no way to live.

Also as a twenty something left leaner, I fit into the above demographic
 

richw

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Regarding Your last paragraph regarding age of forum members, I've become Flickr Contacts with several forum members, and know of some from a few Facebook rail photo groups and all seem to be in the 16-30 or retired categories. The younger members all seem to be in very tight friendship groups.


From the discussions I've had on the forum this seems reflective if enthusiasts, with professionals of all ages. All I've entered into discussion with seem very academic types. Maybe that is reflective of voting?
 

Harbornite

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Who would want to be normal? That's no way to live.

Also as a twenty something left leaner, I fit into the above demographic

The thread title is rather silly because there's no such thing as normal. Anyway it's not as if only a slither of the population wanted to remain, it was almost half and half!
 

Gathursty

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I like trains.
I'm university educated.
My job is middle class but I feel working class due to my background and where I live.
I'm obviously well travelled, including Europe, Africa and the USA.
I voted out, mainly for sovereignty and immigration reasons but the thread would slide if I said more about this.

Not normal indeed...
 

me123

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Being normal would be boring.

Agreed. I'm an opera loving rail enthusiast who's currently reading a book about recreational mathematics. And I wouldn't have it any other way. 8-)
 

WestCoast

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Well, almost half of the electorate also voted to remain in the EU so let's not get carried away! I'm sure there were some "salt of the earth" types also included in that figure (maybe they had a holiday home in Spain?!).

But yeah, younger demographics, a lot of well read people etc - I get the impression people on here voted to leave or remain based on a considered reasoning, not because "someone down the pub told me X".
 
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cjmillsnun

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I note that all of the umpteen squillion EU polls on these forums show an overwhelming support for remaining in the European Union.

As we now know, this is the exact opposite of what the ordinary British, salt-of-the-Earth, decent British people of Britain want.

So why are we train fans so badly out of lockstep with this country?

I've suggested before that this might be down to the cost of rail travel, which is hella expensive. Maybe this skews the membership of RailUK forums towards the more well off?

It might also be that younger people at the very bottom of the socioeconomic spectrum are bullied out of expressing any sort of enthusiasm for trains at an early age? Maybe the ability to say "I think trains are awesome" without ridicule is an example of middle-class privilege?

I dunno. What are your theories?

Considering how close the result was and how the membership of this forums is an absolute microcosm of the UK society, I don't think it's that unusual.

The result of the referendum split the population almost down the middle, so are you inferring that half of the population is not decent or ordinary?
 

Harbornite

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Considering how close the result was and how the membership of this forums is an absolute microcosm of the UK society, I don't think it's that unusual.

The result of the referendum split the population almost down the middle, so are you inferring that half of the population is not decent or ordinary?

It was a strange statement, perhaps by decent British folk, he means racists and/or the less educated.
 

jon0844

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"ordinary British, salt-of-the-Earth, decent British people of Britain"

Was it necessary to a) mention British three times and b) write it in such a way that it sort of creates a 'them and us' scenario?
 

Peter Mugridge

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Younger people were more likely to vote in with older people more likely to vote out. We're going to have more younger people on this forum than older people, that's fairly obvious.

I'm 49 and I voted in. Do I count as old or not yet?:lol:








PS That is not an excuse for someone to start a poll asking if I should be considered old or not!!!
 

Gutfright

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"ordinary British, salt-of-the-Earth, decent British people of Britain"

Was it necessary to a) mention British three times and b) write it in such a way that it sort of creates a 'them and us' scenario?

a) Because Britain.

b) Because the reality is that it is them and us. When you chose to put your cross in the remain box, you made a conscious decision to say "I don't give a fig about the low-paid Britons who are finding their wages undercut by mass EU immigration. I'm all right Jack. The working class can kiss my arse". Unfortunately for you, a large number of the lower orders you so very clearly despise came out and made their voices heard.
 

satisnek

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Younger people were more likely to vote in with older people more likely to vote out. We're going to have more younger people on this forum than older people, that's fairly obvious.

The sort of places that were more likely to vote out were not such nice places with lower levels of tolerance e.g. Boston, while the likes of London & York were more likely to vote in. Again, we're more likely to have people from the latter places on this forum than the former!

I also think, based on what I've heard people saying, there's a correlation in intelligence too, with brighter people more likely to vote in. I only heard one person at work saying they wanted out and they're not the brightest!

People on this forum are also more likely to be well-travelled.


:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Well I voted Leave. Old, thick, intolerant, living in a crap town and proud of it!!

:lol:
 

jon0844

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a) Because Britain.

b) Because the reality is that it is them and us. When you chose to put your cross in the remain box, you made a conscious decision to say "I don't give a fig about the low-paid Britons who are finding their wages undercut by mass EU immigration. I'm all right Jack. The working class can kiss my arse". Unfortunately for you, a large number of the lower orders you so very clearly despise came out and made their voices heard.

And, boom, there goes the dynamite.
 

richw

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It isn't a microcosm of the UK though. That's my point.

The people of Britain voted to leave the EU, the people of RailUK forums feel very differently.

Considering how close the result was and how the membership of this forums is an absolute microcosm of the UK society, I don't think it's that unusual.

The result of the referendum split the population almost down the middle, so are you inferring that half of the population is not decent or ordinary?



This telegraph article has a collection of polls, from varying types and ages of people.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...type-of-person-wants-to-leave-and-who-will-b/

On reading through the different polls, I would class most people from this forum I've contacted through times as being in the category's more likely to vote remain from this study.
 

Gutfright

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This telegraph article has a collection of polls, from varying types and ages of people.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...type-of-person-wants-to-leave-and-who-will-b/

On reading through the different polls, I would class most people from this forum I've contacted through times as being in the category's more likely to vote remain from this study.

Nationality is an interesting one. Scotland is relatively well-served by railways (tiny Dumbarton has more rail stations than Leicester, for example), and obviously wherever you are in London you're no further than six feet from a train. Both Scotland and London were pro-remain.

I've flip all idea about the railways in Northern Ireland and Gibraltar though, so I'm not sure how strong this theory is.
 

tbtc

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Regarding Your last paragraph regarding age of forum members, I've become Flickr Contacts with several forum members, and know of some from a few Facebook rail photo groups and all seem to be in the 16-30 or retired categories

That's something you tend to get with rail enthusiasm.

It's long been something that people are into big fast machines in their teens/ youth, they lost interest after their twenties (as they settle down, don't have the time to jaunt around the country, mortgages take over) and then pick up again as they approach retirement (a lot of spare time, getting misty eyed about quaint branch lines).

It's not a scientific theory, and Forums like this enable people to keep up to date in a way that people in their 30s/ 40s/ 50s may not have in previous generations, but it does tend to attract people from one extreme or the other.

Younger people were more likely to vote in with older people more likely to vote out. We're going to have more younger people on this forum than older people, that's fairly obvious.

The sort of places that were more likely to vote out were not such nice places with lower levels of tolerance e.g. Boston, while the likes of London & York were more likely to vote in. Again, we're more likely to have people from the latter places on this forum than the former!

I'd add to that that (whilst the referendum was officially about the EU rather than immigration) there's a correlation between "areas with large migrant population"= "cultured tolerant intelligent workforce" = "large metropolitan area" = "high enough population density to warrant significant heavy rail".

Not a foolproof theory, I accept, but I'd guess that there'd be a disproportionate number of people interested in railways in places with lots of railways (which will tend to be cities like London/ Glasgow) rather than the kind of small coastal towns that UKIP tend to do well in (which may be on the end of a branchline, but aren't rail hubs - e.g. Lincolnshire).

So I'd suggest that most enthusiasts tend to be smarter than the average bear. Remainers are generally above average too, based on the data available. Coincidence?

The result of the referendum split the population almost down the middle, so are you inferring that half of the population is not decent or ordinary?

Since one of the main members of the Brexit camp described the result as " victory for ordinary people, a victory for decent people", I've heard a number of Remain voters describe themselves as "indecent" or "not ordinary", using the divide and rule approach as a badge of honour.

Who wants to be decent and ordinary all of the time anyway?
 

Phil.

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I'm 65 and I voted out - as did virtually everyone in Cornwall, one of the poorest areas of the U.K. and one that has benefitted from E.U. handouts. When politicians have worked out why they might understand why areas that are traditional working class enclaves like Middlesborough, Sheffield, Lincoln and Hartlepool so emphatically voted out. If you look on a map of how the areas on the U.K. voted you will see that generally the poor areas voted out and the well-off or better off areas voted in.
 

WelshBluebird

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I'm 65 and I voted out - as did virtually everyone in Cornwall, one of the poorest areas of the U.K. and one that has benefitted from E.U. handouts. When politicians have worked out why they might understand why areas that are traditional working class enclaves like Middlesborough, Sheffield, Lincoln and Hartlepool so emphatically voted out. If you look on a map of how the areas on the U.K. voted you will see that generally the poor areas voted out and the well-off or better off areas voted in.

Are you asking us to guess why do turkeys vote for Christmas? :lol:

Apologies for the sarcasm, but I really fail to understand why areas that have not suffered due to immigration but are heavily reliant on the EU have voted to leave. I guess in Cornwall you have the fishing issue, but elsewhere? Is it just two fingers to politicians or?

And genuine curiosity here, do people you know actually realise how much EU money has been spent in Cornwall and what projects it has been used for? Because out of people I know from back home in South Wales, so many people just had no idea and when told they just assume Westminster will top up the funding (like that will actually happen).
 
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Domh245

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as did virtually everyone in Cornwall

Turns out that 56.5% is now virtually everyone. Who knew?

It would seem then that practically everyone voted for one of Labour, UKIP, Lib Dems, SNP, or Greens in the 2015 general election
 
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