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Why do most modern train liveries look so similar?

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py_megapixel

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With few exceptions, this is the formula for a modern train livery
  • Start with plain white, or close to it
  • Apply the TOC's branding colour to:
    • the doors
    • an optional "swoosh" or diagonal-line based decoration around the cab
    • very rarely, some form of decoration at the end of each carriage
  • Add the TOC logo and website once per carriage under the windows
  • For intercity stock, add a large version of the TOC logo at each end between the cab door and passenger windows
The only franchised TOCs I can think of who are not following this trend are TPE, ScotRail, East Midlands, West Midlands and GWR, and all of those still adopt at least some of these features. That leaves LNER, Avanti, GTR, London Overground, Southeastern, South Western, c2c, Greater Anglia, CrossCountry, Northern and more with a pack of liveries looking like they were created with the same template. It looks unprofessional, in the same way that seeing a brochure written in the Microsoft Office default font looks unprofessional. Why is there such a lack of creativeness and uniqueness in this area?
 
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Domh245

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What advantage is there to an overly complicated livery that doesn't follow your formula, I don't really think there's anything wrong with any livery on the network today particularly? Although I would note that the examples you give of "slaves to the formula" are pretty wide ranging, whilst some of your exceptions are only that because of a different base colour! If you think that XC, Northern, and Southeastern are all working to the same template (eg) then you probably ought to get your eyes checked!

The other thing to bear in mind is that there is a requirement for operators to develop a brand that can be passed on to future operators, so no house colours which rules out some of the more interesting house schemes (eg Stagecoach) and will tend to result in a livery that is a bit, corporate.
 

dorsetdesiro

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I can understand the reasoning that many TOC's branding with white backgrounds looking like a template.

But SWR and XC seem more grey than white, no?

Maybe most TOCs see white as a clean colour, like many many brand new cars out there are white as it is quite popular at the moment. Similiar goes for consumer brands outside railways also go for a lot of white like Marks & Spencer, Apple etc.
 

DB

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Because they are created by design agencies who could be creating a 'brand identity' for anything - they are all working to the same current trends, so are likely to have similarlities to other brand identities produced around the same time, and in most cases there are probaby also budget limitations. In some cases they even use the current year's fashion palette (the TPE one did), which is likely to mean they look dated fairly quickly.

Plus the DfT has in recent years had something of an obsession with a white / light grey base colour which has influenced a number of liveries (both those under their direct management, and those franchised). Seen at its worst in the dreary 'East Coast' livery, and more recently in the slightly better LNER livery on the IETs, among others.

The more plain ones with a strong dark colour predominating seem to last best - of the current lot, GWR probably falls into that category, as does the main Scotrail livery (although possibly not the livery used for their HSTs).

Of the privatised rail companies, GNER is probably the one which put the most effort into creating its brand, including all ancillaries right down to bespoke crockery and glassware in the restaurant cars. The main livery, of dark blue with red detail and gold lettering, worked well.
 

ic31420

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Convergent evolution.

There are qualities that all operators want from a livery, ease of application, ease of cleaning /stays clean, durability (see royal mail vans in vauxhall red), looks smart in all light levels weather conditions and when grubby, must satisfy legislation in respect of door colours etc and at the same time it must be inkeeping with modern styles and fashions.

If it was down to me we'd have one intercity base livery and one suburban base onto which operator's could apply branding in 3 ways such a as a logo (of a given size) a bodyside colour stripe of a given width and choice of contrast colour.

You could then extend this to station, depot, marketing materials branding. So when a franchise changes hands the new operator simply removes and or over applies one of a fixed number of fixed size stickers to the signage etc, the graphic printed materials people simply swap the images and off we go. Millions saved.
 

delt1c

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Convergent evolution.

There are qualities that all operators want from a livery, ease of application, ease of cleaning /stays clean, durability (see royal mail vans in vauxhall red), looks smart in all light levels weather conditions and when grubby, must satisfy legislation in respect of door colours etc and at the same time it must be inkeeping with modern styles and fashions.

If it was down to me we'd have one intercity base livery and one suburban base onto which operator's could apply branding in 3 ways such a as a logo (of a given size) a bodyside colour stripe of a given width and choice of contrast colour.

You could then extend this to station, depot, marketing materials branding. So when a franchise changes hands the new operator simply removes and or over applies one of a fixed number of fixed size stickers to the signage etc, the graphic printed materials people simply swap the images and off we go. Millions saved.
I wouldn’t disagree, a variation of the livery of London buses. Why waste money on individual exteriors when this could be spent on customer environment/ service. Scotrail a classic example.
 

DB

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If it was down to me we'd have one intercity base livery and one suburban base onto which operator's could apply branding in 3 ways such a as a logo (of a given size) a bodyside colour stripe of a given width and choice of contrast colour.

Pretty much what the Scottish government have done - they did specify just one livery, but have since added the HST one which is different. The only operator branding consists of small logos on the doors, which are easily changed (and were changed when it moved from First to Abellio).

A similar approach to the whole of the UK rail network would make sense, although perhaps even two liveries is too many and one would do, as was the case in the BR blue era.
 

dorsetdesiro

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Some sort of unified branding for all TOCs to use, like the red London buses also the old BR blue, seems to make sense for coherence & maintenance but wouldn't this seem too corporate and too dull for marketing purposes?

If all current TOCs share let's say the BR blue and apply their logos in white - the power of marketing can be strong like Virgin Trains, GA's rabbit ads and GWR's Famous Five etc in attempt to attract customers to get on their trains. Each TOC of course have their own branding, sometimes memorable for customers to return again or recommend to others. How can Avanti West Coast promote themselves if they look the same as LNR if both are using BR blue with unified stationery in promotional material just with change of logo for each TOC?

I reckon a possibly better approach is for each TOC to use a single block of colour, just one primary colour with the secondary colour just for the doors? This is already done by GWR and EMR so this approach wouldn't appear monotonous on a promotional aspect as if each TOC were all required to share one colour.
 

dorsetdesiro

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Another way is bringing back the BR brand but not nationalised (if the govt continues with franchising/management contracts for example) however the idea is to appear more unified as if it were nationalised (but potentially risk upsetting others if they believed it was nationalised for real).

"British Rail" would be the main brand & name everyone will know & see (as SWR is really First MTR South Western Trains). All rolling stock across the country will look the same, decked in BR livery, which you will have look for the franchise holder's name hidden away somewhere. In the North, you could see "Northern Trains" in tiny form drowning in the more prominent BR livery. ScotRail and TfW have taken this approach. Also this reminds me of McDonalds restaurants being run by franchises whose names are invisible unless you know where to look.
 

507021

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In my opinion at least, because there's not really much imagination when it comes to designing liveries any more.

Certainly most bus liveries look the same, or similar, nowadays.
 

Energy

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Another way is bringing back the BR brand but not nationalised (if the govt continues with franchising/management contracts for example) however the idea is to appear more unified as if it were nationalised (but potentially risk upsetting others if they believed it was nationalised for real).

"British Rail" would be the main brand & name everyone will know & see (as SWR is really First MTR South Western Trains). All rolling stock across the country will look the same, decked in BR livery, which you will have look for the franchise holder's name hidden away somewhere. In the North, you could see "Northern Trains" in tiny form drowning in the more prominent BR livery. ScotRail and TfW have taken this approach. Also this reminds me of McDonalds restaurants being run by franchises whose names are invisible unless you know where to look.
I wouldn't bring back British Rail, the brand doesn't have the best reputation with many whose experience would be a cold mk2 behind a class 50, not a modern train.
 

physics34

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Id bring backthe double arrow loco on stock but with the individual franchise name . A standard livery would certainly make sense after the recent large amount of stock cascades.

Would also like stripes back but the requirement for doors to be different colour to the coach body makes stripes not so dynamic.
 
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dorsetdesiro

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I wouldn't bring back British Rail, the brand doesn't have the best reputation with many whose experience would be a cold mk2 behind a class 50, not a modern train.

If the BR brand was to be revived, this won't necessarily mean a return to the 1970s corporate look and the BR blue. A total redesign with different colours is more likely also possibly tweak the name to "National Rail" in a neutral move as there is unfortunately some woke sensitivity out there about colonialism. Also this could signal a fresh start to avert grumblings about the not so great bits of the old BR.
 

Energy

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If the BR brand was to be revived, this won't necessarily mean a return to the 1970s corporate look and the BR blue. A total redesign with different colours is more likely also possibly tweak the name to "National Rail" in a neutral move as there is unfortunately some woke sensitivity out there about colonialism. Also this could signal a fresh start to avert grumblings about the not so great bits of the old BR.
National Rail is a good name to be honest as it doesn't reputation of some bits of BR while already being associated will UK rail.
 

py_megapixel

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National Rail is a good name to be honest as it doesn't reputation of some bits of BR while already being associated will UK rail.
I'd say it's too generic considering that, for example, SNCF is often introduced as "the French national rail operator." Any discussion of both would inevitably result in confusion over which was meant.

It needs to clearly indicate the UK, in the same way that franchise names today are supposed to indicate which part of the country they operate in (with a few exceptions)
 
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dorsetdesiro

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Except it becoem

I'd say it's too generic considering that, for example, SNCF is often introduced as "the French national rail operator." Any discussion of both would inevitably result in confusion over which was meant.

It needs to clearly indicate the UK, in the same way that franchise names today are supposed to indicate which part of the country they operate in (with a few exceptions)

Maybe so, the national coach company is called National Express, instead of UK Bus, doesn't seem to do it any harm
 

MikeWM

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I agree, and have thought this for some time. It certainly makes the Anglia region a rather drab place to be when, despite having multiple TOCs, most/all of them now have liveries that are 'mostly white' :(

Let's have some colours!
 

LNW-GW Joint

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You only have to look at Europe's so-called "nationalised" operators to realise that the same marketing folk are at work all over the place.
Every regional TER in France has its specific localised brand, with any SNCF house style inconspicuous.
It's the same in Italy/Germany etc, only the main intercity operator has a consistent branding.
They often like to put the crest/flag of the local region/city prominently on the cab side, which can be quite impressive - we never seem to get further than "City of …".
The French love their style and are marketing experts (though it sometimes goes too far with Ouigo and the rest).
You find trains plastered with adverts everywhere.
I think you have to go to a bankrupt Eastern Europe country these days to find a bland, all-pervasive livery such as BR had - Ukraine perhaps?
 

dk1

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Not sure why GAs livery was added to those that all look the same. I cannot think of any livery in the UK that looks anything quite like that adorning the 745/755 fleet. It is also a hare rather than a rabbit that appears in ads & on the side of some units.
 

ajrm

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There are two main reasons for this blandness: one is the insistence of the DFT on generic liveries to avoid the cost of rebranding when a franchise changes hands. This was the logic behind the most recent Virgin West Coast livery but it turned out to be a completely pointless exercise because Avanti have introduced a completely different livery.

The other reason is the ease of applying a base colour of paint and then adding branding and livery details with vinyl, which is probably cheaper than the alternatives of a full paint job or a full vinyl wrap. Like anything else, if you cut corners it will show, and the OP's comment that it's like using the default font in MS Office is spot on.
 

ajrm

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PS anyone else recall National Express' insistence that its mainly white livery wouldn't show the dirt because it would be cleaned regularly?
 

dk1

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PS anyone else recall National Express' insistence that its mainly white livery wouldn't show the dirt because it would be cleaned regularly?
I don't recall them saying that but cleanliness of the exterior was not one of NXs strong points on many of their franchises.
 

Amaroussi

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The original London Overground livery is actually a version of the red/blue/white London Underground livery that London Regional Transport (the one before Transport for London) rolled out at the end of the 1980s, just as Network SouthEast was rolling out the toothpaste livery.

However, the concerns about the blandness of modern train liveries on many TOCs are genuine: they are kind of like the old Tesco Value brand, or one of those stock designs on Microsoft Publisher. I think it is possible to have an appealing livery (like the GWR) that can survive many operators: the only rules are that it should not be too dependent on the operator’s corporate identity (as it was the case during the First Great Western days), and it should also not be too cautious about being future-proof.
 

Mikey C

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I actually didn't mind London buses when the operators were allowed a small variation in their liveries, that also had the benefit that an experienced bus user would be able to recognise the buses on their route from the different livery it had, that flash of blue or yellow before the number became visible!
 

Mikey C

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We all have personal preferences, personally I find the SWR blue/grey livery deadly dull, when compared to the variety of the 3 SWT liveries, of which the blue/red one was easily my favourite!

Indeed Stagecoach went out of their way to use liveries to differentiate the different services their trains operated, which I assume some passengers found useful
 

Taunton

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Many of the more interesting ones, especially those from Stagecoach Group a decade or more ago, were done by Ray Stenning and his Best Impressions design company https://www.best-impressions.co.uk/ . I believe he is a considerable enthusiast, and may even be reading here and laughing.

Probably the worst regression is his SWT colours being replaced by what SWR have done. I suspect that causes more grinding of teeth than laughing.
 

Purple Orange

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Another way is bringing back the BR brand but not nationalised (if the govt continues with franchising/management contracts for example) however the idea is to appear more unified as if it were nationalised (but potentially risk upsetting others if they believed it was nationalised for real).

"British Rail" would be the main brand & name everyone will know & see (as SWR is really First MTR South Western Trains). All rolling stock across the country will look the same, decked in BR livery, which you will have look for the franchise holder's name hidden away somewhere. In the North, you could see "Northern Trains" in tiny form drowning in the more prominent BR livery. ScotRail and TfW have taken this approach. Also this reminds me of McDonalds restaurants being run by franchises whose names are invisible unless you know where to look.

The only way a BR brand or a uniform national brand should be implemented is if it is all one organisation to begin with.
 

Purple Orange

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I don’t see the issue with the liveries, there is great variety. Compare it to BR days, when there was very little variety:
  • Intercity
  • Regional railways (with a few variants)
  • Network South-East
Today every TOC has a distinct variety and the one good thing about privatisation of the services has been brand identity from a passenger perspective, to help distinguish between services.
 

Inthewest

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Maybe the designers are all around the same age and got taught marketing at university in the same few years.
Thus, they would all approach a livery with the same sort of thoughts.
 
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