Why do Pacers get allocated to the Hope Valley Stoppers?

[beano900]

hello!

I get the stopper along the Hope Valley line most days and I was wondering - is there a particular reason why this line is infested with Pacers? I wasn’t intending to turn this into another thread on the screeching old contraptions but it seems that the majority of trains on this line are Pacers. Is there a technical reason for this?

I used to get the train in from Warrington and it could be any combination of old museum pieces from northern but this line is mainly unidimensional, apart from the odd 150.

 

[yorkie]

I guess they have to be allocated to somewhere. They don't have long left anyway.

What route do you think should have Pacers allocated to it instead?

 

[Aictos]

I guess they have to be allocated to somewhere. They don't have long left anyway.

What route do you think should have Pacers allocated to it instead?

Maybe just maybe the fleet diagrammers think the line is best served by Pacers?

 

[yorksrob]

Maybe just maybe the fleet diagrammers think the line is best served by Pacers?

Sounds a bit far fetched to me.

Nowt else left seems more like it.

 

[beano900]

Sounds a bit far fetched to me.

Nowt else left seems more like it.

They must really hate us

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I guess they have to be allocated to somewhere. They don't have long left anyway.

What route do you think should have Pacers allocated to it instead?

Bring back the Met-Camm's

 

[yorksrob]

They must really hate us

I thought that when I saw two Merseyrail pacers turn up in a row !

 

[Bald Rick]

Comllete speculation, but don’t they have better acceleration than most other DMUs? Which would be useful for that line which is tightly timed with the fast trains.

 

[Mugby]

The last stopper from Sheffield on Saturday night can be quite an experience, especially if there's been any kind of event in the city!

 

[tbtc]

Nice big windows for passengers to appreciate Mam Tor from.

Like a number of Northern services, it looks like a "long" distance service but is really for short/medium journeys that a Pacer is reasonably suited for (you'd have to be daft or very unlucky to sit on one all the way from Sheffield to Manchester - or travelling vv early/late - I remember coming back from Manchester Airport early on a Sunday morning and sitting on a Pacer back to Sheffield with the fallout from some big gig/rave/zombie infestation that had obviously taken place in Manchester the previous evening)

(I mean, it'd be nice if they allocated 333s but the lack of wires is probably a reason for that)

 

[_toommm_]

Nice big windows for passengers to appreciate Mam Tor from.

Like a number of Northern services, it looks like a "long" distance service but is really for short/medium journeys that a Pacer is reasonably suited for (you'd have to be daft or very unlucky to sit on one all the way from Sheffield to Manchester - or travelling vv early/late - I remember coming back from Manchester Airport early on a Sunday morning and sitting on a Pacer back to Sheffield with the fallout from some big gig/rave/zombie infestation that had obviously taken place in Manchester the previous evening)

(I mean, it'd be nice if they allocated 333s but the lack of wires is probably a reason for that)

The only real reason would be a non enthusiast looking on a site like trainline and seeing dirt cheap fares for it on the day, and not realising the coaching stock is far from the standards of a TPE 185.

I've done it before when I'm struggling for money. I hate Pacers normally, but the low bench seats and panoramic windows make them great cinemas for the views of the Hope Valley.

 

[tom1649]

The Pacers felt like a downgrade from the 101s (especially the power-twin sets) we had before them on the Hope Valley.

 

[Starmill]

Like a number of Northern services, it looks like a "long" distance service but is really for short/medium journeys that a Pacer is reasonably suited for (you'd have to be daft or very unlucky to sit on one all the way from Sheffield to Manchester - or travelling vv early/late - I remember coming back from Manchester Airport early on a Sunday morning and sitting on a Pacer back to Sheffield with the fallout from some big gig/rave/zombie infestation that had obviously taken place in Manchester the previous evening)

You may well end up being forced to use one for an hour if your journey is from Dore to or via Manchester. This is a non-negligible flow too. The 0941 from Manchester to Sheffield on Sundays also fills a gap in fast services.

A pretty significant number of people do use them for journeys like Hope to Manchester too, which is 55 min

 

[142Pilot]

Try a Southport to Leeds on a pacer.

Then come back and grumble.

 

[_toommm_]

Try a Southport to Leeds on a pacer.

Then come back and grumble.

I've done Mirfield to Southport on a 142... does that count

 

[Bantamzen]

Try a Southport to Leeds on a pacer.

Then come back and grumble.

At least on that route you've the option to bail at Manchester. Morecambe to Leeds must be a blast on a 142 (yes I know technically you can change at Lancaster & Manchester)! I've never tried it myself, its on my 'to-do' list somewhere between walking over hot coals & hitting myself repeatedly with a frying pan...

 

[_toommm_]

At least on that route you've the option to bail at Manchester. Morecambe to Leeds must be a blast on a 142 (yes I know technically you can change at Lancaster & Manchester)! I've never tried it myself, its on my 'to-do' list somewhere between walking over hot coals & hitting myself repeatedly with a frying pan...

It's really not as bad as you'd think...

 

[Bantamzen]

It's really not as bad as you'd think...

My memories of regular Pacer use were them squealing their way up & down the incline from Bradford Interchange towards Leeds, and bouncing along trying to keep to 321 timings when they replaced them on the Leeds-Doncaster runs. The thought of being on one for a couple of hours brings me out in a cold sweat!

 

[_toommm_]

My memories of regular Pacer use were them squealing their way up & down the incline from Bradford Interchange towards Leeds, and bouncing along trying to keep to 321 timings when they replaced them on the Leeds-Doncaster runs. The thought of being on one for a couple of hours brings me out in a cold sweat!

The wheel flange squeal is definitely an issue, especially on a hot day in the tunnel after Edale tunnel when all the windows are open.

My worst memory of it is going from Sheffield to Rotherham 5 days a week - the screeching as we went onto the Rotherham branch and around the Holmes Chord was horrendous.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Pacers felt like a downgrade from the 101s (especially the power-twin sets) we had before them on the Hope Valley.

Which is in a way odd, as they are of a very similar look, layout and design - just the lack of bogies.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's really not as bad as you'd think...

Pacers are good for scenic lines - the all-round view out with the big windows and low seat backs is near unrivalled.

 

[Esker-pades]

Pacers are good for scenic lines - the all-round view out with the big windows and low seat backs is near unrivalled.

I have a perfectly good view from my 158. I really don't want a Pacer popping up any time soon.

 

[Bantamzen]

Pacers are good for scenic lines - the all-round view out with the big windows and low seat backs is near unrivalled.

I'm sure we could lobby to send a few your way when Northern have done with them....

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure we could lobby to send a few your way when Northern have done with them....

TBH 3 Pacers based at Bletchley would be ideal for the Marston Vale (and @DarloRich has I'm sure said the same as a regular user), but we're getting 230s anyway, which, bogies aside, aren't really *that* different in concept.

 

[vlad]

I'm sure we could lobby to send a few your way when Northern have done with them....

Can you send them to EMT land to replace the 153s?

 

[Killingworth]

hello!

I get the stopper along the Hope Valley line most days and I was wondering - is there a particular reason why this line is infested with Pacers? I wasn’t intending to turn this into another thread on the screeching old contraptions but it seems that the majority of trains on this line are Pacers. Is there a technical reason for this?

I used to get the train in from Warrington and it could be any combination of old museum pieces from northern but this line is mainly unidimensional, apart from the odd 150.

I have made 5 journeys on Hope Valley line today.

First was a well filled and refurbished Northern 150 from Dore into Sheffield, but seats for all who wanted to sit, although from Dore a number always choose to stand.

TPE 185 to Piccadilly was full and we stood all the way. Hopefully by early 2019 these trains will be 6 carriages, subject to successful introduction of new trains and redeployment of displaced 185s.

Returned on Northern 156 to Dore with noisy wheel flat but plenty of space.

Later made trip into and out of Sheffield on 142 Pacer.

My understanding is that if all the stock cascades had proceeded as originally planned the Hope Valley line would have lost Pacers by now. With electrification and refurbishment delays it looks like it won't now be until mid 2019.

 

[Bevan Price]

Comllete speculation, but don’t they have better acceleration than most other DMUs? Which would be useful for that line which is tightly timed with the fast trains.

No - not a lot of difference between acceleration rates of 142, 150 or 156.

 

[Bald Rick]

No - not a lot of difference between acceleration rates of 142, 150 or 156.

Oh. I thought they did, thought they had the same engine but around 2/3 the weight. Perhaps not then.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh. I thought they did, thought they had the same engine but around 2/3 the weight. Perhaps not then.

Pretty sure Pacers have a smaller engine.

 

[Eric]

At least on that route you've the option to bail at Manchester. Morecambe to Leeds must be a blast on a 142 (yes I know technically you can change at Lancaster & Manchester)! I've never tried it myself, its on my 'to-do' list somewhere between walking over hot coals & hitting myself repeatedly with a frying pan...

That awful screeching noise as it bounces on the curve into Carnforth .