Why do some passengers not get how annoying it is to play music and videos out loud?

[Sprinter107]

I hate to say this, but i think there is a significant % of the population who just don't give a sh*t.

Currently sitting in a pub and someone is playing out various music videos and so called comedy routines full blast. The staff have gone over and asked him to turn it down. The reply given was that he is deaf and carried on. I give up.

This country is just the pits these days. No respect, graffiti/rubbish getting worse, people barging past barriers and abusing staff who dare suggest they buy a ticket, holding open doors, shop lifting, the list goes on. And no one in authority seems to give a cr*p, in case the offenders rights are infridged. Sod the poor staff members or other people who just want to enjoy a quiet pint.

Anyway, rant over. Sorry. Just very frustrating seeing it everyday with things just seemingly getting worse.

Agreed.

 

[Spaceflower]

Okay. So I've thought long and hard about this widespread condemnable act of sacrilage that is occuring on today's railways and have devised what I believe to be an effective strategy to combat it.

First, one will politely ask the offender if they could keep the music down.

If that fails, then I believe an effective contingency plan would involve raising the attention of an appropriate member of staff (discreetly, ofcourse. I mean we aren't aiming to recreate our own scaled down version of some glorious historical military victory with full BBCesque coverage).

Away from the railway, I suppose it's down to the rules of each individual premises. It opens up the possibilities for some interesting contradictions, depending upon the context. If it's accepted behaviour by the premises (I mean it's a business and their aim is to keep their customers happy), what do you do in that situation?

Now hold on a minute, who actually sets what is an acceptable volume on a busy train?
And weren't quiet coaches set aside for those who seek just that?

Discuss.....

 

[Krokodil]

Despite the journey being less than two hours the child would scream and scream until she got to watch a video on an iPad - both were annoying to the 3 others in the compartment.

Kids should be kept well away from these devices, they're so addictive. Many a time I've asked to see a ticket, the parent takes the phone back from the child in order to show it, and the quivering lip that signifies an inbound tantrum starts. The tech billionaires of this world keep their kids' device usage strictly controlled, they know better than anyone how damaging they are.

 

[Spaceflower]

Kids should be kept well away from these devices, they're so addictive. Many a time I've asked to see a ticket, the parent takes the phone back from the child in order to show it, and the quivering lip that signifies an inbound tantrum starts. The tech billionaires of this world keep their kids' device usage strictly controlled, they know better than anyone how damaging they are.

I believe it's a double edged sword. I fully agree with what you're saying but they're going to be exposed to them at some point so there is a good argument for some supervised exposure from an early age.

 

[Krokodil]

Now hold on a minute, who actually sets what is an acceptable volume on a busy train?

As a guard; if I can hear it, it's too loud

And weren't quiet coaches set aside for those who seek just that?

No, quiet coaches were signed back in the days before smartphones, so playing videos without headphones wasn't really an option. They were set aside to eliminate annoying ringtones and businessmen who think everyone else should hear their very important call. A brief ringtone is otherwise tolerable in a normal carriage, whereas two hours of Tiktok scrolling really isn't.

Ideally a quiet coach should have the atmosphere of a library. A standard coach should have the atmosphere of a café - conversation, maybe the odd game of I-spy or a book being read allowed to a child, but not much more.

 

[Spaceflower]

As a guard; if I can hear it, it's too loud


No, quiet coaches were signed back in the days before smartphones, so playing videos without headphones wasn't really an option. They were set aside to eliminate annoying ringtones and businessmen who think everyone else should hear their very important call. A brief ringtone is otherwise tolerable in a normal carriage, whereas two hours of Tiktok scrolling really isn't.

Ideally a quiet coach should have the atmosphere of a library. A standard coach should have the atmosphere of a café - conversation, maybe the odd game of I-spy or a book being read allowed to a child, but not much more.

Is that what you were told during training, are you paraphrasing or is this an example of your 'own descrection' as a guard?

This is a genuine question btw, I've taken my sarcastic hat off now

 

[Bletchleyite]

Now hold on a minute, who actually sets what is an acceptable volume on a busy train?

There isn't one. Devices should not be audible to other passengers. The Byelaw simply requires it to be to the annoyance of others - if I can hear it at all, it will be to my annoyance and therefore the offence is complete. Use headphones or mute it.

And weren't quiet coaches set aside for those who seek just that?

Quiet coaches are meant to be another level of quiet - no telephone conversations, for example, and keep your voice down if talking to another passenger. Telephone conversations at a normal voice level and with the phone NOT on speaker are acceptable in other coaches.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

Telephone conversations at a normal voice level and with the phone NOT on speaker are acceptable in other coaches.

That's a whole different level of annoying. I've started joining in those conversations when they're close enough. It's quite entertaining as the person at the other end of the phone assumes you're a friend of the person they're speaking to, to the person holding the phone on speaker generally can't figure out what's happening or why there are now three people in their call, and usually hang up or knock the speaker off. It'll probably get me into trouble at some point, but it's all good clean fun until then!

 

[Krokodil]

I believe it's a double edged sword. I fully agree with what you're saying but they're going to be exposed to them at some point so there is a good argument for some supervised exposure from an early age.

Yes, I travelled back from Scotland this year. The kids behind me tried playing videos and tried to protest "he's deaf" to the Train Manager but when I pointed out to their mother (who was seated at the end of the carriage) that some of the language was unsuitable for the two kids on my table (who weren't mine but I didn't contradict her when she assumed otherwise) she told them to switch it off and said that I should speak to her if there was any more trouble. It was still a blessed relief when they alighted at Preston for Blackpool.

The two boys on my table (the ones the Scottish mother assumed were mine) were impeccably behaved. Their mother played trivia games with them and let them play on a device silently and with strict limits on how long they were on it for at a time.

Is that what you were told during training, are you paraphrasing or is this an example of your 'own descrection' as a guard?

This is a genuine question btw, I've taken my sarcastic hat off now

My own ideal. Obviously guided by Byelaw 7 (if I can hear your device then it's annoying me and therefore too loud) and the signage in quiet coaches. If people are getting rowdy then I'll try amd calm them down - the line between "can you please calm down a bit?" and "if you don't quiet down you'll need to leave" really comes under Byelaw 6 (unacceptable behaviour).

 

[Sun Chariot]

I don't work in the rail industry but I offer some "reference" noise thresholds:
The second one is permissible. The others are not.

1970s: The volume that my father inevitably swore at the TV, watching Luton Town FC lose yet another match.
1980s: The volume of a pair of Paxman Valentas, departing on full throttle. Didcot stoppers used to open up wonderfully loudly, due to the straight lines both east and west.
1990s: The volume of LU Central Line stock's wheel flanges, between Bank and Waterloo.
2000s: The volume every mobile phone user spoke loudly in public at, merely because they had a frickin' mobile phone.

 

[Krokodil]

1970s: The volume that my father inevitably swore at the TV, watching Luton Town FC lose yet another match.

That reminds me of a kangaroo court at a rugby club. One of the fathers was done for shouting "above acceptable levels". "Now that acceptable level" (said the coach presiding as judge) "is me".

 

[bramling]

I’m only 21 but the change since Covid that I’ve noticed has been startling, when I was a younger teenager or a boy travelling from Yorkshire to North East Scotland with the exception of the occasional hen or stag party, the HSTs were often very quiet.

Like a lot of things, it’s definitely got worse since Covid, as has a general trend for many people to lack all sense of self-awareness.

By no means confined to rail travel though. The standard of driving on roads is increasingly abysmal now as well.

What I perhaps find most disturbing is it’s by no means confined to younger people either, in fact on the contrary you’re just as likely if not more to find objectionable behaviour and lack of self-awareness from a baby-boom.

 

[Elon Bust]

It's here where we need to be careful not to make value judgements about how people spend their time. We shouldn't assume that watching TikTok or Instagram is "lesser" in any way than reading a newspaper, and both can be done in responsible and irresponsible ways. I recall having my personal space impinged upon by a person who insisted on reading a broadsheet newspaper next to me in a narrow train seat.

It's not about whether someone chooses to entertain themselves by scrolling TikTok or by reading a newspaper. It's only about whether they're considerate to others when they do so in a public space.

Oh yes I know. The fact is, if I'm in a carriage where everyone is watching TikTok but with their headphones in, my main emotion is a sense of relief. It means I can get on with reading a book in peace, which is what I was able to do on every single train journey of my adult life until about 2019.

 

[Howardh]

I have total sympathy with anyone being annoyed by other people's noise.

Therefore bin the constant barrage of "information" coming from the trains speakers. That's just as bad, If not worse because you can't move seats to get away from it.

At Blackpool North I had to sit through the same messages (stopping stations, safety announcements) three darned times before we even set off.

Made me wish I'd rather hear the Birdie Song three times instead....

 

[TUC]

Sometimes you wish you could hear more of a conversation. The man further down the carriage from me is having a phone conversation with his speaker on, that I can I hear parts of, of which the standout line was 'mind you, I am a bit scared about that chicken'.

 

[43066]

I have total sympathy with anyone being annoyed by other people's noise.

Therefore bin the constant barrage of "information" coming from the trains speakers. That's just as bad, If not worse because you can't move seats to get away from it.

At Blackpool North I had to sit through the same messages (stopping stations, safety announcements) three darned times before we even set off.

Made me wish I'd rather hear the Birdie Song three times instead....

This strikes me as an unusual viewpoint. I find the automatic announcements on most stock blur into the background. They’re also unlikely to be going anywhere because they’re necessary for PRM compliance, and the DfT mandate the safety ones.

Totally different to some idiot yakking away on a phone, or playing music through a tinny speaker.

 

[DelW]

I do appreciate how annoying some of these experiences are - I have occasionally been sufficiently aggravated to intervene (politely) with noise makers on trains, sometimes successfully, sometimes not.

But it's not all bad. In the last week and a half, I've made ten journeys by train:

• Four on SWR to or from Waterloo, durations up to an hour​
• Two on Avanti to or from Euston, durations around two hours​
• Three on TfW and one on Northern in the north-west, durations 20 - 30 minutes​

and I'm happy to say that on none of these was there any noise or antisocial behaviour at all. One passenger across the aisle from me on SWR made a couple of voice calls on his mobile, but so quietly that I wouldn't have known if he hadn't been in sight.

There was one unusual passenger though, who spent the journey from Woking to Waterloo "playing" a single spoon against his knee or the seat next to him. It was similar to the way someone would play a pair of spoons along with music, but since he only had one, it was (fortunately) virtually silent.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

This strikes me as an unusual viewpoint. I find the automatic announcements on most stock blur into the background. They’re also unlikely to be going anywhere because they’re necessary for PRM compliance, and the DfT mandate the safety ones.

Some units are VERY loud, far beyond what almost anyone would consider reasonable noise unless the speakers were at the other end of the train.

 

[Howardh]

Some units are VERY loud, far beyond what almost anyone would consider reasonable noise unless the speakers were at the other end of the train.

Yes, the Northern train I was on was dreadful, also been on others wherer the noise is so loud it's actually distorted and vibrates the train around the speakers, this occurs on older stock - how much effort is actually needed to turn them down?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

how much effort is actually needed to turn them down?

No clue, but it feels like every unit is differently loud, there must be a setting somewhere.

 

[BRX]

As for the autism thing I’m hearing, I’m highly, highly sceptical. My ex (diagnosed as an adult) frequently got overstimulated by exactly the behaviour this thread is talking about, and we often had to move carriages because of people playing music to loudly (occasionally we spoke to staff, but rather than confront they just told us to move - a difficult feat given my ex is wheelchair bound).

Yes, if autism (or another condition) is being used as an "excuse" for playing devices out loud, then things are entirely the wrong way round. It's much more likely that this behaviour is causing distress to such people. And this angle could certainly be used in any argument that the TOCs are failing in their duty to control the environment on board trains and look after the needs of all passengers.

Even if there is concern for the safety of staff when challenging passenger behaviour, it seems to me that TOCs could do a lot more than they do at present. It's basically totally ignored as a problem. Some announcements over the PIS would help, as would notices posted in trains and on stations, proactively making people aware that noise from their devices may cause quite a lot of irritation or even distress to fellow passengers. Notices posted within trains would make it a lot easier for other passengers to challenge people too. It doesn't need to be a complicated rule: simply state that no noise should come out of the speakers of electronic devices and that headphones can be used instead.

I (as a passenger) have challenged it once or twice - even though most times I just sit there getting irritated, or put in my noise-cancelling headphones - and what's usually striking when you do that, is that quite a few others are usually on your side. While it's true that there are now quite a lot of people who apparently view it as totally fine, there are also plenty of people who really don't. It's not too late to turn around expectations/norms, but it needs TOCs to actually do something about it.

 

[trainophile]

Very cheery TM on the Northern I’ve just left Leeds on included in his welcome aboard announcement asking people to be considerate of other passengers and not play music out loud or put feet on seats.

I wonder if he’s on this forum!

 

[Howardh]

Very cheery TM on the Northern I’ve just left Leeds on included in his welcome aboard announcement asking people to be considerate of other passengers and not play music out loud or put feet on seats.

I wonder if he’s on this forum!

Could go on - bags on seats, hot smelly food etc! But personally I'd rather have just the one real-time announcement by the train guard than the barrage of automated earache - to me the guard's announcement carries far more gravitas??

I note on Avanti that coach A is a "quiet" coach, maybe that could be (a) policed in the first place and (b) extended to other long distance trains? Think it bans mobile conversation (??) and music through speakers, but not using head/ear phones?

 

[BRX]

I'd rather have just the one real-time announcement by the train guard than the barrage of automated earache - to me the guard's announcement carries far more gravitas??

I think people are much more likely to respond to this yes.

 

[Purple Train]

Sometimes you wish you could hear more of a conversation. The man further down the carriage from me is having a phone conversation with his speaker on, that I can I hear parts of, of which the standout line was 'mind you, I am a bit scared about that chicken'.

I do love hearing bits and pieces of other people's conversations and trying to construct the missing parts around them, and I do hear some interesting ones! I haven't yet been able to work out quite what went on in the thirty seconds between "what are we doing in Physics this week?" and "we should start a cult", though. Kids these days...

This strikes me as an unusual viewpoint. I find the automatic announcements on most stock blur into the background. They’re also unlikely to be going anywhere because they’re necessary for PRM compliance, and the DfT mandate the safety ones.

Totally different to some idiot yakking away on a phone, or playing music through a tinny speaker.

I can see where both of you are coming from - I don't usually mind the announcements on stock, but announcements at stations really drive me up the wall sometimes. To take an example, at Slough you are treated to a constant loop of "when on the stairs, please use the handrail and take care", all talking over the top of each other and blurring into a hideous noise. Yet, in the last four months, not once have I heard "Platform 4 for the 17.02 Elizabeth Line service to Maidenhead". And, before you ask, no I don't own a set of noise-cancelling headphones! I don't necessarily mind having more announcements than on the continent or whatever the usual bugbear is if they actually convey useful information, but not when it's like that.

 

[Elon Bust]

This thread is making me think about when I was on a train from Brno in the Czech Republic to Vienna about a month ago. The compartment I was booked in was full, 3 single men (including myself) of varying ages and a mum, dad and child (must’ve been younger than one). Despite the journey being less than two hours the child would scream and scream until she got to watch a video on an iPad - both were annoying to the 3 others in the compartment.

As for the autism thing I’m hearing, I’m highly, highly sceptical. My ex (diagnosed as an adult) frequently got overstimulated by exactly the behaviour this thread is talking about, and we often had to move carriages because of people playing music to loudly (occasionally we spoke to staff, but rather than confront they just told us to move - a difficult feat given my ex is wheelchair bound).

I think that this behaviour should be confronted head on by rail staff (with security as backup) along with plenty of posted notices, especially on longer distance routes.

I’m only 21 but the change since Covid that I’ve noticed has been startling, when I was a younger teenager or a boy travelling from Yorkshire to North East Scotland with the exception of the occasional hen or stag party, the HSTs were often very quiet.

This is a really important point. This is the key to so many things about life in Britain.

The behaviour of the average person in Britain has got worse since the lockdowns. I am entirely sure why but it has. There seems a greater sense of I can do whatever I want all the time.

Recently I stayed in an Ibis hotel and in the bar was a man in his fifties watching reels on his phone with the volume really loud. This situation is actually very new and it's kind of amazing that we act like it's normal.

 

[43066]

And, before you ask, no I don't own a set of noise-cancelling headphones!

They’re a good investment in many settings, these days!

 

[Howardh]

This is a really important point. This is the key to so many things about life in Britain.

The behaviour of the average person in Britain has got worse since the lockdowns. I am entirely sure why but it has. There seems a greater sense of I can do whatever I want all the time.

Recently I stayed in an Ibis hotel and in the bar was a man in his fifties watching reels on his phone with the volume really loud. This situation is actually very new and it's kind of amazing that we act like it's normal.

I think a lot of this is down to free wifi and cheap wifi mobile phone deals. If using up data was really expensive then I would imagine a lot of these unnecessary calls and views would end. Of course one could always download at home, but in the old days when someone was yelling down their phone the chances are they wouldn't be long as their allowance would be used up quickly!

On trains it's difficult to stream (for example) youtube and music sites - so that everyone can get basic internet. maybe that should also apply to free public wifi??

 

[43066]

I think a lot of this is down to free wifi and cheap wifi mobile phone deals. If using up data was really expensive then I would imagine a lot of these unnecessary calls and views would end. Of course one could always download at home, but in the old days when someone was yelling down their phone the chances are they wouldn't be long as their allowance would be used up quickly!

On trains it's difficult to stream (for example) youtube and music sites - so that everyone can get basic internet. maybe that should also apply to free public wifi??

It’s cheap mobile data and fast 4G and 5G connections, rather than WiFi, that cause the issues.

A lack of audible music/TikTok is an advantage of the EMR meridians, which block mobile signal pretty effectively.

 

[bleeder4]

I do love hearing bits and pieces of other people's conversations and trying to construct the missing parts around them, and I do hear some interesting ones! I haven't yet been able to work out quite what went on in the thirty seconds between "what are we doing in Physics this week?" and "we should start a cult", though. Kids these days...

I was once on a train with a woman who was on her phone arranging for a private investigator to follow her husband after he left work, as she suspected he was having an affair. She gave the investigator enough details about her husband that, had I been so inclined, I could have rung his employer, asked to be put through to him, and then told him what his wife was arranging.