Why doesn't the e320 Eurostar run at 200mph?

[ABB125]

I believe a number of months ago it was officially stated speed was being downgraded to 360 max regardless - i.e. no plans to built it to allow 400 in the future

I don't remember that, but it seems sensible. However, seeing as phase 1 is designed for 400, surely it would be better to rate it for 400 anyway, and just design future phases for 360?

 

[hexagon789]

I don't remember that, but it seems sensible. However, seeing as phase 1 is designed for 400, surely it would be better to rate it for 400 anyway, and just design future phases for 360?

They probably could do that but given the finer details seem to change about as often as the weather who's to say that even now the 360 limit is set in stone either way.

 

[Ianno87]

I don't remember that, but it seems sensible. However, seeing as phase 1 is designed for 400, surely it would be better to rate it for 400 anyway, and just design future phases for 360?

400 almost certainly basically the straightness of the alignment - the thing that is essentially fixed once built

But there's a heck of a lot of other stuff necessary to actually run at 400, at a price - but that can all be changed in future. It's the alignment you're stuck with forever.

 

[hexagon789]

400 almost certainly basically the straightness of the alignment - the thing that is essentially fixed once built

But there's a heck of a lot of other stuff necessary to actually run at 400, at a price - but that can all be changed in future. It's the alignment you're stuck with forever.

As the SNCF found out when they went to upgrade the Sud-Est from 270 to 300km/h. Even today there are certain sections still restricted to the original 270 due to alignment.

 

[Peter Kelford]

I don't think anyone in Europe is seriously proposing to operate commercially at more than 320 km/h though are they? So while the discussion regarding 400 km/h and above is interesting, I'm not sure it fits that well here.

There is a French plan for 350.

 

[hexagon789]

There is a French plan for 350.

The AGV?

 

[Austriantrain]

There is a French plan for 350.

Do you have more information? Rolling stock strategy seems to revolve around 320 max. Obviously, ETCS2, which will probably be rolled out more and more, will allow higher speeds.

 

[TRAX]

There is a French plan for 350.

The AGV?

SNCF is not getting the AGV.

Do you have more information? Rolling stock strategy seems to revolve around 320 max. Obviously, ETCS2, which will probably be rolled out more and more, will allow higher speeds.

The new Avelia Horizon trains will be capable of 350 km/h, but it’s not yet known if SNCF wants to raise the speed capabilities of existing LGVs to be able to use this.

 

[Peter Kelford]

Do you have more information? Rolling stock strategy seems to revolve around 320 max. Obviously, ETCS2, which will probably be rolled out more and more, will allow higher speeds.

The AGV?

Happy to oblige. The new generation of TGVs (known as: TGV du Futur, TGV-M, TGV2020 (SNCF commercial names) or Avelia Horizon (Alstom)) is essentially a crossbreed of the TGV 2N2 and the AGV, capable of speeds of up to 350km/h. The latest few major lines to open (LGVs Est, Rhin-Rhône, BPL and SEA) are both designed with a maximum speed of 350km/h. Beyond this, I would imagine that any further speed increases would be potentially on the yet-to-be-built lines which may or may not get built.

 

[hexagon789]

Happy to oblige. The new generation of TGVs (known as: TGV du Futur, TGV-M, TGV2020 (SNCF commercial names) or Avelia Horizon (Alstom)) is essentially a crossbreed of the TGV 2N2 and the AGV, capable of speeds of up to 350km/h. The latest few major lines to open (LGVs Est, Rhin-Rhône, BPL and SEA) are both designed with a maximum speed of 350km/h. Beyond this, I would imagine that any further speed increases would be potentially on the yet-to-be-built lines which may or may not get built.

I think it's usefulness will be determined by whether they ever actually do increase normal running speeds to 350km/h

SNCF is not getting the AGV.

Fair enough wasn't sure if this was an existing, previous or new plan tbh

 

[Austriantrain]

Happy to oblige. The new generation of TGVs (known as: TGV du Futur, TGV-M, TGV2020 (SNCF commercial names) or Avelia Horizon (Alstom)) is essentially a crossbreed of the TGV 2N2 and the AGV, capable of speeds of up to 350km/h. The latest few major lines to open (LGVs Est, Rhin-Rhône, BPL and SEA) are both designed with a maximum speed of 350km/h. Beyond this, I would imagine that any further speed increases would be potentially on the yet-to-be-built lines which may or may not get built.

Thank you. Obviously new HS trains will be designed for this speed since they are supposed to be sold in other markets as well.

The question still is whether SNCF really intends to run at 350. Have they stated as much?

 

[TRAX]

The question still is whether SNCF really intends to run at 350. Have they stated as much?

Not yet.

 

[BahrainLad]

IIRC when HS1 opened Eurostar ran a special train Paris-London with a (NoL?) 373 with the aim of achieving a sub 2h time. There were very few passengers and a lot of the catering equipment had been removed. They ran at 320kph for most of the LGV Nord and had it not been for a temp speed restriction just before the tunnel they would’ve achieved the aim. I think it ended up being 2h2m or something like that?

 

[Starmill]

Trenitalia ordered rolling stock capable of 400 km/h, but do not have any infrastructure to support such speeds. Simply ordering and testing the rolling stock at such speeds does not seem to mean that it will actually be used in the near future. Of course, we have had plenty of experience of that in the UK.

 

[Ianno87]

IIRC when HS1 opened Eurostar ran a special train Paris-London with a (NoL?) 373 with the aim of achieving a sub 2h time. There were very few passengers and a lot of the catering equipment had been removed. They ran at 320kph for most of the LGV Nord and had it not been for a temp speed restriction just before the tunnel they would’ve achieved the aim. I think it ended up being 2h2m or something like that?

Yes, a special press run type thing. There was a TSR just before Calais due to subsidence associated with WW1 trenches in the area.

Incidentally some of the non-stop runs to both Paris and Brussels during Lockdown have recorded some respectable timings due to absence of any other traffic in the way!

 

[JonasB]

Germany decided to go for lower speeds on both maintance and energy consumption grounds. Berlin to Munich is therefore for 250kph.

I thought there were quite a lot of 300 km/h track between Berlin and München.

I don't think anyone in Europe is seriously proposing to operate commercially at more than 320 km/h though are they? So while the discussion regarding 400 km/h and above is interesting, I'm not sure it fits that well here.

If wikipedia is to be trusted, the Madrid-Galicia HSL is being built for 350 km/h. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid–Galicia_high-speed_rail_line

 

[Austriantrain]

If wikipedia is to be trusted, the Madrid-Galicia HSL is being built for 350 km/h. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid–Galicia_high-speed_rail_line

Madrid - Barcelona (and probably most other newer Spanish HSL) was built for 350 as well and the intention originally was to use it at that speed. But it has never happened.

 

[hexagon789]

I thought there were quite a lot of 300 km/h track between Berlin and München.

I thought so as well on the sections: Leipzig-Erfurt, Erfurt to about half-way to Nürnberg and Nürnberg to about half-way to Munich

 

[duesselmartin]

I thought so as well on the sections: Leipzig-Erfurt, Erfurt to about half-way to Nürnberg and Nürnberg to about half-way to Munich

Track yes, and Nürnberg to Munich is an older section.
The trains ICE4 ordered are 250 only.
Even the showcase Frankfurt to Cologne line does not utilise its 330 max in regular service.

 

[hexagon789]

Track yes, and Nürnberg to Munich is an older section.
The trains ICE4 ordered are 250 only.
Even the showcase Frankfurt to Cologne line does not utilise its 330 max in regular service.

Apologies, I thought you were referring to the line capability rather than the trains.

 

[Peter Kelford]

The question still is whether SNCF really intends to run at 350. Have they stated as much?

Well no there's not a single mention in the press release about it getting ordered.

 

[James James]

Although DB is indeed buying a lot of ICE 4's capable of "only" 250km/h... they are also ordering more Velaro's, in effect more ICE 3's (330km/h capable). So it's not quite right to say Germany has decided on 250, rather they're choosing cheaper stock for some routes and nevertheless sticking to more expensive faster stock where the higher speed is worth it.

 

[43096]

Track yes, and Nürnberg to Munich is an older section.
The trains ICE4 ordered are 250 only.
Even the showcase Frankfurt to Cologne line does not utilise its 330 max in regular service.

Aren't the ICE3 units used on this line as well, though?

 

[duesselmartin]

Aren't the ICE3 units used on this line as well, though?

But timetabled at 250kph.