Why don't Diesel Trains have AdBlue?

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by ECML125, 6 Jan 2019.

Should UK TOCs be required to have AdBlue Systems installed?

  1. Yes

    59 vote(s)
    65.6%
  2. No

    31 vote(s)
    34.4%
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  1. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    There is a lot of anger at the proposed cruise ship terminal at Greenwich for similar reasons.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-new-london-cruise-ship-terminal-river-thames
     
  2. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    There's an additional deadline for existing vehicles, with a financial incentive scheme to part-exchange them for new ZEC models. It's 2022 iirc, with the Mayor planning to bring it forward to 2020.
     
  3. Charlie Smythe

    Charlie Smythe On Moderation

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  4. AlastairFraser

    AlastairFraser Member

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    Why ? They are a special group of tourists who usually spend nothing in the local economy save for the local tourist attraction gift shop because they have spending money on the ship as part of the package and the coaches carrying them add to congestion and pollution on our road network. That's ignoring the environmental impact of the ship itself. Please note this is a not a argument against tourism in general- it's more to do with the whole idea of the cruise ship, it all seems too sheltered and removed from reality and the environmental impact is too much to be acceptable and must be dealt with.
     
  5. whhistle

    whhistle Established Member

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    I spent nothing on board when I was on a cruise.
    I spent lots in the local economy at the places I visited.
    The people I went with were the same.
    Anyone who spends money on the cruise ship is an idiot. I mean, £7-£10 for a 330ml bottle of coke? £3.50 for a small tub of pringles? Yeah, okay!
     
  6. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    The only time I went on cruise was down the Yantze and several rail engineers had just finished a new build high speed project and were off on a good holiday. They ordered pallets of beer for delivery to the dockside for departure and only the non beer drinking passengers bought anything on board during the entire trip!
     
  7. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    A lot of cruises are of little benefit to the local economy, for the environmental damage they cause, especially if they are half board, i.e. the passengers leave after breakfast and return by 6pm for dinner
     
  8. Charlie Smythe

    Charlie Smythe On Moderation

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    It’s not the cruise part that I like. It’s the ship part. I like all ships not just cruise ships.
     
  9. theageofthetra

    theageofthetra Established Member

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    The important point is can they be charged up at home or when a cabbie is on a break?
     
  10. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    The later would have required TfL and boroughs to engage and install charging points at suitable locations which they haven't!
     
  11. AlastairFraser

    AlastairFraser Member

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    Fair enough but shipping needs to get a hold on emissions, just as the car industry is starting to.
     
  12. AlastairFraser

    AlastairFraser Member

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    So you had a pallet of beer kegs on a boat trip up the Yangtze and you didn't eat or drink anything else? Beer's never a good idea on a boat :E
     
  13. AlastairFraser

    AlastairFraser Member

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    Well, there are clearly a lot of idiots around,since a lot of people on the cruise shop programmes spend huge amounts of money onboard!
     
  14. Charlie Smythe

    Charlie Smythe On Moderation

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    Most likely as it is convineniant.
     
  15. modernrail

    modernrail Member

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    I agree with this. I inherited the gene that caused my Nana to call the police to find my Mum when she was little and disappeared in Liverpool, only to find her trying to get on a ship to Canada 'because I was always taken with how white the Canadian ones were. They just looked so magical'.

    That's why I was so horrified when I discovered their emissions profile. The engineering of many ships themselves - awesome. The fuel choice for powering them - immoral. The number of ugly big container ships required for ugly big amounts of unnecessary tat that ends up in landfill or the oceans - immoral.

    As for cruise ships, I had a tiny bit of involvement in the Liverpool cruise ship terminal. Cities like Liverpool clearly want it, other cities like Venice are starting to hate it. I sort of think it is up to cruise ships calls to decide for themselves. However, the ships absolutely must change their emissions profile (ship to shore power, electric out of port, LNG at least out of port with scrubbing (but no dumping) or they need to go.

    As for those who think they don't spend anything on board, what do you think your ticket price covers???
     
  16. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    Food was already paid for but not beer /wine (the Ozzie engineers were a bit concerned about running out too!). Pallets of 24 pack cans much easier to handle logistically than kegs!
     
  17. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

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    They are installing charge points and there are several taxi only points.
     
  18. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    A very small fraction of what is actually needed.
     
  19. theageofthetra

    theageofthetra Established Member

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    And of course assumes the cab driver has a house to charge it up. Useless if they live in a flat.
     
  20. AlastairFraser

    AlastairFraser Member

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    That much is true.
     
  21. AlastairFraser

    AlastairFraser Member

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    Still, a 24 pack of beer isn't that great a contribution to the local economy and people who have to put up with the pollution the cruise ship produces. As you mentioned, the food was already paid for.
     
  22. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Plenty wrong with them, they stink to high heaven, and with their spread we're going to be getting smog again.
     
  23. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Cruises are less of an issue, more freight. I listened to an interesting slot on From Our Home Correspondent podcast (BBC radio 4) yesterday which explained about trials of returning to shipping by sail. For things like containers where throughput is more important than speed (i.e. as long as you keep feeding it "in" often enough, after the initial "priming of the pump" you receive sufficient goods at the timings required) this really does merit consideration.
     
  24. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Legal requirements for freeholders to arrange charging points to be installed at all allocated parking places (paid for via the service charge) might be a start. On-road parking is harder to do but they could still be installed.
     
  25. Charlie Smythe

    Charlie Smythe On Moderation

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    Lovely and warm though, we have 4.
     
  26. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    So you are OK, tough on the neighbours then, especially those unreasonable enough to suffer from asthma.
     
  27. theageofthetra

    theageofthetra Established Member

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    Far greater issues are cause by the sheer number of BBQ restaurants in some urban areas. Some have their noxious vents attached to Network Rail structures and chuck putrid smoke, animal fat and grease onto the line and into the drivers cab when held at signals. Why local authorities who claim to care about the environment continue to licence them is beyond me.
     
  28. Charlie Smythe

    Charlie Smythe On Moderation

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    As @theageofthetra has said, no worse then BBQ restaurants and other takeaways.
     
    Last edited: 21 Jan 2019
  29. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Quite.

    The Government already plans some quite strong restrictions on them. If those are inadequate, we will need to ban them in urban areas. That would be sad, but it would be preferable to the return of the smog and serious health problems, as well as ugly, black, smoke-stained buildings like they were until as recent as the 1990s.

    4 of them will stink more than four of your typical old terraced house in the 50s which normally had only one coal (rather than wood) fire in the lounge and you simply wore clothes elsewhere in the home.

    If you live on a farm, fine, but there is really no place for these used on a daily basis in any town or city, and even less place for several of them. If you must burn wood (and it is a renewable resource), fit a proper biomass boiler with a scrubber.
     
  30. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Two wrongs do not make a right. And most people do not live near a BBQ restaurant, so they aren't being choked as they sleep.
     
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