Why don't TFL / Surrey / Berkshire Council promote public transport to areas just out of London

Discussion in 'Buses & Coaches' started by pethadine82, 29 Jun 2019.

  1. pethadine82

    pethadine82 Member

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    With cars clogging up out streets, why are there no buses to attractions just out of London from london border.
    Eg Windsor is close to Hounslow and have an extension of route 81
    Staines is near Virginia Water lakes and buses could easily be extended here along the A30 calling at Egham eg routes 203, 116,117
    This would help reduce congestion and pollution making it more greener.
    I suspect its to do with money. Surrey and Berkshire are not short of cash.
     
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  3. Samuel88

    Samuel88 On Moderation

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    Because TfL are in a word, skint. And even if they weren't, why should I, a London taxpayer fund what would in essence be tourist buses?
     
  4. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    Just to point out there's no Berkshire County Council or Berkshire Council. It is a unique non-metropolitan area in this regard: the councils that exist are all unitary authorities, only serving their own areas e.g. West Berkshire for the Newbury district.
     
  5. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    In the early days of TfL, their bus service was expanded beyond the Greater London boundary to step in when deregulated operations were withdrawn, for example the 405 Croydon to Redhill and the 465 Kingston to Dorking. The area south west of the Greater London boundary is certainly a strange anomaly as it is heavily urbanised so could naturally have been incorporated into Greater London. The Office of National Statistics includes this area as part of the "Greater London Built Up Area". However, bus use is low here, very different to the similar urban area just over the boundary.
     
  6. Surreyman

    Surreyman Member

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    Because Surrey & Berkshire(?) and all the other councils outside London have better things to spend money on i.e Old peoples services etc etc.
    Not Short of Cash?? Reality check needed here!
     
  7. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Cheshire and Bedfordshire also have no council with those names, having been split into unitaries in 2009. Cheshire, Bedfordshire and Berkshire still exist as geographical entities and remain ceremonial counties.
     
    Last edited: 29 Jun 2019
  8. Mwanesh

    Mwanesh Member

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    Surrey are not swimming in cash. You need to keep up to date with bus news.They had a massive cull a while back .There is much politics in the bus industry you will be shocked if you dig deeper . I dont think bus companies or TFL would want to deal with many LAs .
     
  9. Megafuss

    Megafuss Member

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  10. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    There's typically 4 buses and a couple of trains an hour from Slough to Windsor - why would TfL want to compete with them?

    The 81 did go to Windsor many years ago, but I suspect there were few alternatives at the time (going back far enough, so did the District Line).
     
  11. Bookd

    Bookd Member

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    Nothing to do with the buses, but I play bowls; from time to time people mock that Middlesex is a non-existent county.
    When we play against them the opposition insist that they are the Royal County of Berkshire, but really their county does not exist anymore than Middlesex does!
     
  12. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    If you're looking for local government areas, there's still a West Berkshire - but the Royal bit came from the presence of Windsor in the county.
     
  13. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Berkshire is still a ceremonial county but Middlesex isn't.
     
  14. Simon75

    Simon75 Member

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    Reading buses run the Greenline 702 from London Victoria to Windsor and Legoland
     
  15. Simon75

    Simon75 Member

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    The First Berkshire 8 runs from Heathrow to Slough via Windsor
     
  16. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    Yes, along with the 703, these are the 4 buses an hour I mentioned.
     
  17. Flange Squeal

    Flange Squeal Member

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    White Bus’ route 500 already runs from Staines and Egham along the A30 to Virginia Water, using environmentally friendly Euro VI buses, less than a year old.
     
  18. Hophead

    Hophead Member

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    TfL 246 is, however, extended from Westerham to Chartwell on summer Sundays, so this sort of tourist-oriented excursion isn't completely verboten. What conditions enable this service to operate, I couldn't say.
     
  19. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    No extra bus/crew are involved, the diesel cost is minimal and three or four extra return passengers would probably make it all worthwhile. I've heard Chartwell are very welcoming too.
     
  20. si404

    si404 Member

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    there's other 1974 non-metropolitan counties that are multiple unitaries now, but Berks is the only one that still exists in that form (a non-metropolitan county with no county council and multiple districts with councils that have county functions as well as districts). All the others that dont have two tiers were abolished, and the unitaries inside them are non-metropolitan counties with no county council, but one district council that has county functions (save the couple of unitaries that have county councils and no district councils).

    All the metropolitan counties (and Cleveland before they tweaked it in a further change) are like Berkshire though.

    Yes it is a silly mess!
     
  21. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    There's 8 journeys a week and no alternative services. That makes it a service to London residents that doesn't duplicate anything else.
     
  22. si404

    si404 Member

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    Aren't they? The relevant councils, rather than the people living there that is...
     
  23. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Councils can raise council tax so that transport is properly funded if they hold a successful referendum.
     
  24. Typhoon

    Typhoon Member

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    You are right, of course, it is possible to fund additional services through the ballot box. However, I would not want to have to try to persuade the average Council Tax payer in Berkshire or Surrey to put their hand in their pocket. In fact, having seen at first hand some of the cut backs in council spending, I think I might be tempted to vote for increased spending in other areas, and I depend on public transport.

    Given the promises of tax cuts and increased spending from the two prospective Prime Ministers, and the legacy spending currently being implemented by Mrs May, I suspect local government is due for even thinner slices of the pie. The only area that appears to be increasing at any sort of rate is in policing, something like 12% where I live. I can only hope it is productive, I have yet to tick off 'Bobby-on-the-beat' in my I-Spy Public Officials of 2019.
     
  25. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    That sounds likely in those counties.
     
  26. NorthernSpirit

    NorthernSpirit On Moderation

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    Berkshire County Council more or less functioned the same way as West Yorkshire Metropolitan County Council did before they were abolished, in 1986 for West Yorkshire and 1998 for Berkshire.

    Both counties have Joint Services boards, but one recieved a PTE the other didn't - had Berkshire recieved a PTE simply based on its unique way of being a Shire county with Metropolitan county functions then I do think that it would have promoted public transport just outside its own area. It may have even done an WYPTE (West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive) and an SYPTE (South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive) with local agreements such as cross border bus travel or even cross border ticketing, such as the now withdrawn MetroMaster.

    The only difference between them now is one is a Royal County, the other is part of a plastic Republic.
     
  27. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    London Transport did in the past actively publicise routes which extended beyond their area, they published a guide called, if I remember correctly, "Beyond the Fringes" or something similar.
     
  28. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    Largely because they included the (rather higher than normal) fares in that leaflet.
     
  29. si404

    si404 Member

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    If councils like Surrey or Windsor and Maidenhead increased council tax, central Government would reduce grant to counter balance. The budget wouldn't actually get bigger, just the sources different.

    That goes for blue team caring about keeping local government as fiscally lean as possible, and red team wanting grant money going to more-deprived areas of the country.
     
  30. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    The grant from central government is being phased out, so councils have to raise all their money locally. However, councils are likely to able to keep more of local business rates which previously would have gone to central government. That should benefit affluent areas like those being discussed here.
     
  31. pethadine82

    pethadine82 Member

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    The reason why I write is the environmental factors. I know surrey has hoards of money as I have a friend that was telling me how badly finances are managed. If you look at council tax rates and bands esp in areas like Runnymede there is a surplus of cash.
     

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