Deafdoggie
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Buying online is considerably easier than a TVM.
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Why I prefer to use a ticket office and obtain a physical ticket
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miklcct
On Moderation
I'm now travelling in Sweden by train.
I landed at Copenhagen Airport and took a commuter train to Lund. I went to the ticket machine to buy a ticket, however it didn't accept any of my banknotes. I tried to use another one and it also didn't accept my banknotes.
If there was a ticket office I would have headed to one, but in Sweden they have all been gone for good.
I then tried the third machine and found a small sticker saying "only Danish money" - only at that point I knew why my money wasn't accepted because I was putting Swedish money into the machine, so I paid by card to buy the ticket.
Who would think that we would need to use Danish money to pay for train travel in Sweden? If someone only have Swedish money without any card he would have been stuck!
I wouldn't hope that this happen at e.g. Gatwick that passengers won't be able to find anyone to help getting a ticket when the ticket machine doesn't accept the English money put into the machine!
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Agreed wholeheartedly. I hate TVMs with a passion but more than happy to use a website (found the Trainline app doesn’t do fees for tickets bought on the day and can honestly say the interface is great)
AlbertBeale
Established Member
For some people, yes. Some find it harder. What you mean is, you find buying online easier than a TVM. I do wish people wouldn't make generalised, allegedly absolute and factual, statements based on their own experience/abilities/preferences.
I agree, and these days online retailing and e-tickets are absolutely commonplace across the whole travel industry, events industry, and more. I suspect that online retailing and e-ticketing has grown the rail market to people who may not previously have travelled. e-tickets are incredibly popular among the general public.
It's my understanding that the member you quoted was giving an opinion; it's an opinion that would be agreed with by the majority of passengers based on observational evidence that many TVMs are being taken out of service, the queues for them appear to often be non-existent, and sales of e-tickets are absolutely soaring.
Of course not everyone will share that opinion and you are entitled to yours; it's a minority opinion though.
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Wallsendmag
Established Member
That's not an opinion it's a fact we've withdrawn 40 TVMs and eTicket sales are 85% of our web business
It might be for you but not for me (at Sheffield at least)
I can go to the TVM, enter my destination, select the required ticket, pay by contactless and the ticket prints.
To buy the same ticket on line, I first have to log into a retail site which I have earlier registered for (or if I haven't, I have to enter details such as name/address/email). Then I need to enter both my starting and destination stations. After selecting the required ticket I then have to add card details and, in many cases, further 'security' info specified by the bank before finally getting a ticket sent by email which may not always arrive immediately.
At Sheffield the queues for TVMs have certainly pretty much disappeared (which suits me fine) but they are still used by a decent number, but at London Bridge the other week the queues were such that if I had joined them I would have missed the train so had to follow the procedure above to book on line which was even more time consuming on a small phone screen than on my PC.
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Quick geography lesson:
Copenhagen is the Capital of Denmark.
Lund is just across the water from Copenhagen and is in Sweden.
This is probably why they have to say that only Danish notes are accepted.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think that's because LNER are moving ever closer to an advance booking only railway, having priced most people off using walk ups, then added the pseudocompulsory reservations thing on top which means people aren't confident they'll get on at all on the day.
I don't think it's because people dislike TVMs in and of themselves, indeed don't yours have basically the same UI as the website?
(I do however dislike Avanti's awful TVMs!)
I think e-tickets are also popular for walk-up fares, not just Advance fares, to be fair.
I think people generally prefer the convenience of buying online; it's not really about the UI.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Was this TVM in Copenhagen or Lund? If it was Copenhagen then of course it only takes Danish money as it's in Denmark, would you expect to pay in Euro at the TVM at Dover Priory having got off the boat? If it was Lund then it's really odd that it does.
Popular yes, I buy e-tickets for most journeys now unless unable to do so. But I think there was a suggestion people disliked TVMs, which isn't quite the same and there are other pressures on LNER passengers not to buy on the day.
Possibly so.
I put money on it being in Copenhagen airport station. The railway to Malmo (and then Lund) goes under the road bridge.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That was my thought. I wonder would the OP expect to spend yuan renminbi in a TVM in Hong Kong?
Except he isn't the OP of the thread, so perhaps leave this tangent alone now.
Is there a material difference to those relating to physical tickets?
To give just 3 examples:
Lost outward portion of 2 part return
On Saturday I purchased an off peak return from Shipley to Manchester. Upon getting on the Manchester train at Leeds I realised I had somehow lost my outward Shipley to Manchester portion in Leeds somewhere, probably the Pumpkin Cafe as I certainly used it to exit and re-enter the ticket gates...
www.railforums.co.uk
I lost my ticket on the train and got stopped for "Not having a ticket"
So I was travelling a short journey from Nottingham to Loughborough yesterday. I bought an anytime return ticket from Loughborough Station for £8.70 and on my way home from Nottingham to Loughborough, I lost my ticket whilst getting all my things together to leave. Unfortunately, there...
www.railforums.co.uk
Lost railcard before return journey - didn't realise until ticket check
Hi all, Travelled a return journey from London Paddington to Reading earlier today. In between my two journeys I managed to lose my railcard. The issue is I didn't realise until my ticket was checked by the inspector on the train. He issued a penalty fare notice (accepted, it is his job) and...
www.railforums.co.uk
Everyone who had a problem relating to showing an e-ticket on their phone had the option of a backup (either a printed backup or by showing the ticket on any other device; this could be a spare device of their own or that of any person travelling with them, if in a group) but there is no such option for paper/smart tickets.
And as for ticket offices, have you seen some of the disputes relating to those lately?
Yes, you can lose or forget a physical ticket. But you can also lose or forget your phone.
Phones have the additional potential to break down or run out of electricity.
Are you not able to present evidence of a valid ticket i.e. receipts, bank\card statements after the fact or in he case of a registered smart card obtain a replacement later?
Maybe it is but that normally means you have an account set up with whoever and can easily access it. I have an online account with SWR and have used it a few times to buy tickets from home. But in this case when you turn up at the normal time and find the normally open ticket office closed (it was announced rather hidden on the SWR website but no notices at the station itself) and you only have your smartphone which you have never used to buy a ticket and have no idea of that super complicated password to log in what can you do.. Short of setting up a new account or 'forgot your password' which would also require your email which may not be available on your smartphone. Somebody who struggles with TVMs is hardly likely to be able to sort that out (assuming they do have a smartphone) and no helpful couple could sort them out that way.
If you have a smart phone, you should definitely set it up so you that you can read your email on it.
Its also a good idea to have it so that passwords are stored, so that you can log onto WWW sites. There are various programs to do this. Chrome is free.
You then need internet access on your phone. At a station this might be from the free station WiFi.
Why would you need two smartphones and two SIM cards?
You can show e-tickets on pretty much any electronic device (anything that can show a PDF); I simply said people can choose to have a backup if they want to.
For example I often have my laptop with me, or I may be travelling with someone else, who could show my ticket in an emergency.
If neither of these apply, I could bring a printed copy, if I wanted to.
Or you can choose not to have a backup, in a similar way that a paper ticket has no backup!
People have the freedom to choose what works best for them, but a paper ticket doesn't give any such options.
You were suggesting someone pays a train company a large sum of money in these circumstances, in another thread, when the actual ticket could be shown, so I am puzzled as to why you appear to be contradicting that view here?
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miklcct
On Moderation
Not normally so, but the ticket office can deal with that.
The ticket machines at the high speed station only accept Hong Kong dollars and only sell tickets on its own line, but there are also some ticket offices which accept Yuan Renminbi, operated by the central Chinese operator (with a booking fee applied), selling tickets for the whole national network including the cross-border trains, while for bus travel from Macao to Hong Kong, 3 currencies are accepted to buy the ticket.
There are also ticket collection machines by the Chinese operator, which was put by popular demand, as the MTR-operated machines can't be used to correct tickets bought from the Chinese operator.
There are also opposite examples as well - tickets for coach travel between Hong Kong and mainland China can only be bought in the currency of the departure region, however both singles and returns are available.
In Copenhagen Airport, beside the main ticket machines, there are also separate machines, by DSB selling only tickets to Sweden, and by SJ selling tickets in the whole Swedish network, but none of them accept cash and they are not used by anyone there.
I was actually expecting that Danish money are used to buy tickets to Copenhagen, and Swedish money are used to buy tickets to Malmö, as the airport is a border station.
Personally I use whatever method is most convenient for me - so for off peak day trips to London & Birmingham I use the TVM . There are 3 at my local station . Very rarely are they out of action . Rarely is there a queue . A few key taps , pay by contactless and a couple of seconds to wait for printing - what could be easier.
I do have a LNR account - but to go online , enter card details then print at home and carry a A4 page around seems a faff in comparison . However I do use e-ticketing for advances to print-at-home and no longer use a reference code to print at the TVM - which is a fiddle .
I keep my tickets , railcard , ENCTS & Oyster in a separate card holder. I am wary of producing a phone or wallet ( with bankcards and cash ) at a gate in case its snatched or gives a pick pocket an opportunity . I am more relaxed using my mobile at sporting events that increasing use electronic ticketing - via Apple wallet and similar. Security staff are far more prevalent there than at public transport gatelines .
If LNR/TfL finally integrate smartcard / contactless ticketing that supports my railcard - I will happily switch to that.
I do have a LNR account - but to go online , enter card details then print at home and carry a A4 page around seems a faff in comparison . However I do use e-ticketing for advances to print-at-home and no longer use a reference code to print at the TVM - which is a fiddle .
I keep my tickets , railcard , ENCTS & Oyster in a separate card holder. I am wary of producing a phone or wallet ( with bankcards and cash ) at a gate in case its snatched or gives a pick pocket an opportunity . I am more relaxed using my mobile at sporting events that increasing use electronic ticketing - via Apple wallet and similar. Security staff are far more prevalent there than at public transport gatelines .
If LNR/TfL finally integrate smartcard / contactless ticketing that supports my railcard - I will happily switch to that.
Jim the Jim
Member
I think there is a material difference between losing a paper ticket (which is, in principle, within the passenger's control) and a technological failure causing the passenger to be unable to present a eticket (which is not within their control). I have never lost a ticket. I have had a phone fail to work as it should, without warning, on multiple occasions.
Technology goes wrong. Railway technology goes wrong all the time. TVMs go wrong. And personal phones go wrong. But if the railway's technology goes wrong, the railway does not generally end up facing criminal prosecution (or forced to pay a settlement under threat thereof). And, compared to private individuals, the railway generally has better access to maintenance regimes to minimise the chances of things going wrong. It is not fair, in these circumstances, for the railway to shift the risk and the blame for technological failure onto the passenger.
A solution would be for any passenger unable to present their eticket to be given the opportunity to appeal afterward, by showing evidence that they had in fact purchased the ticket in advance of their journey. It should also be possible - provided ticket inspection is done properly - for the railway to check whether such a ticket had been used for another journey, in order to prevent fraudulent claims of this sort.
Technology goes wrong. Railway technology goes wrong all the time. TVMs go wrong. And personal phones go wrong. But if the railway's technology goes wrong, the railway does not generally end up facing criminal prosecution (or forced to pay a settlement under threat thereof). And, compared to private individuals, the railway generally has better access to maintenance regimes to minimise the chances of things going wrong. It is not fair, in these circumstances, for the railway to shift the risk and the blame for technological failure onto the passenger.
A solution would be for any passenger unable to present their eticket to be given the opportunity to appeal afterward, by showing evidence that they had in fact purchased the ticket in advance of their journey. It should also be possible - provided ticket inspection is done properly - for the railway to check whether such a ticket had been used for another journey, in order to prevent fraudulent claims of this sort.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The latter is a good idea (and applies to Railcards) but because so many tickets don't get checked it would require tickets to have names on them, which I think should be offered as an option but with the choice not to but in not doing you would give up such protection.
It could work by a PF or MG11 being done, but as a PF appeal/MG11 reply you would simply send the booking code of a valid, correctly named e-ticket, perhaps plus a £10 admin fee to discourage people being lazy and always doing that, and it'd go away.
It could work by a PF or MG11 being done, but as a PF appeal/MG11 reply you would simply send the booking code of a valid, correctly named e-ticket, perhaps plus a £10 admin fee to discourage people being lazy and always doing that, and it'd go away.
No it isn't contradictory. In the circumstances on the other thread the poster had received a penalty fare for not being able to present their e-ticket. As I said on that thread I would of hoped the TOC would have cancelled\reimbursed the OP. However despite two appeals the PF still stands. At that point I was suggesting that it may be better for the OP to 'chalk it up to experience' rather than continue trying to get the PF cancelled particularly in response to one 'expert' poster who suggested the correct course was to not pay the PF as the TOC would either ignore the non-payment or would initiate court proceedings and the OP could have his day in court.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Isn't it only the third appeal of a PF that considers mitigating circumstances rather than just the facts of whether it was validly and correctly issued? If so, then the third appeal is definitely worthwhile.
I concur with the expert poster, and I know people who are quite experienced in the area of railway ticketing who also concur.
317 forever
Established Member
That ticket with the barcode shows how little necessity there was in introducing bog roll tickets but never mind.
Here is a credit card for example oh and what about this actual CCST ticket?
Anyway, today I finally made my journey into 20s rail ticketing. I booked a couple of Advance Singles by e-ticket with 2 PDF files.
When I printed them off I noticed they had all the relevant information in text plus the barcodes. They are condensed into the middle of the page though.
I can reprint them if necessary. It's just that I printed them on both sides of the same sheet of A4. This means the barcodes are immediately behind eachother on the same sheet. I hope this does not cause problems on any scanners, either at the station or by the train conductors.
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