Why is Chiltern Driver Only Operated south of Banbury but not north?

[Jamiescott1]

often wondered this, what difference is there south of Banbury to not warrant a guard?
If its infrastructure, surely its not too pricy to add to stations north of Banbury (although I know that Chiltern doesn't call at them all)

 

[yorkie]

Because the trains only went as far north as Banbury when it was introduced:

At the time of DOO introduction of services on the Chiltern Line the service only went as far as Banbury. I think it was at least 2 or 3 years after that services were extended North of. The Guards are mostly based in Birmingham and (I think Banbury). I don't think any are based at Marylebone...

To add it later would be more problematic...

North of Banbury was historically a radio issue. You need Cab Secure Radio (CSR) or better to work DOO, and the CSR zone ended in the platforms at Banbury station. As a result no DOO equipment (CCTV, Mirrors, CD/RA etc) was installed at stations to the north of Banbury. Now GSM-R is in place throughout the route and there is a very intensively worked stretch of line between Leamington Spa, Birmingham, Stourbridge and Worcester there may be an economic argument for pushing DOO further north but I think agreements with the unions state things will remain as they are for the foreseeable.

Yes, I believe there is an agreement in place with RMT to guarantee no DOO north of Banbury for the remainder of the Chiltern franchise.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Because services as far as Banbury were under the remit of Network SouthEast, who introduced DOO as part of the Total Route Modernisation programme of 1989-1991. Services north of Banbury were operated on behalf of Regional Railways, so the DOO agreement did not cover it.

Implementing DOO would have been possible later on, but Networker Turbo operated services north of Banbury only started around the time that privatisation was beginning to happen (with the Train Operating Units etc.), so it was the worst possible moment to engage in an industrial dispute with guards. They couldn't sack all the guards either, because none of the other lines or stock in the area were DOO capable.

Implementing DOO would have been possible immediately following privatisation too (C2C did that as part of their fleet renewal) but it is clearly a battle that it was not worth Chiltern's while to get involved with.

 

[LowLevel]

Also West Midlands Passenger Transport Executive trading as Centro at the time of privatisation had a big hand in funding and specifying rail services in the West Midlands. DOO was briefly considered in the West Midlands area but never came close to getting off the drawing board as apart from cost implications Centro made it clear that they wanted guards on all trains in their area and would remove funding if DOO was introduced (in a similar move I assume to that which saw Strathclyde Passenger Transport threaten to stop funding the Glasgow suburban network unless BR reinstated a number of guards sacked over DOO strikes, this lead to the Strathclyde Manning Agreement with ticket examiners rostered to every train with the guards reinstated in that role). Source is Gordon Pettit's excellent book "The Regional Railways Story".

I doubt in the early days of the Chiltern TOU/TOC running to Birmingham that they would have wanted to lose their subsidy money.

 

[TheWalrus]

Which services operated north of Banbury before Chiltern? Did Leamington and stations north have services into Paddington?

 

[Non Multi]

Which services operated north of Banbury before Chiltern? Did Leamington and stations north have services into Paddington?

NSE/Thames Trains/FGWlink ran a service to Stratford upon-Avon from Paddington. I think it called at Slough (for Windsor) to appeal to tourists. This transferred to Chiltern in Dec '04.

 

[TheWalrus]

NSE/Thames Trains/FGWlink ran a service to Stratford upon-Avon from Paddington. I think it called at Slough (for Windsor) to appeal to tourists. This transferred to Chiltern in Dec '04.

I vaguely remember this under TT, how regular was it though?

 

[BanburyBlue]

Which services operated north of Banbury before Chiltern? Did Leamington and stations north have services into Paddington?

Mainly it was what is now XC.

If I remember correctly, there was one early WM PTE DMU to Birmingham Moor Street (7 a.m. ish I think).
Then used to be the London Paddington to Birmingham New Street Inter-City services, which morphed into XC as we know it today.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I doubt in the early days of the Chiltern TOU/TOC running to Birmingham that they would have wanted to lose their subsidy money.

Yes, apparently there were some funny dealings regarding subsidies which are part of the reason that Chiltern ran/run to Stourbridge/Kidderminster. ISTR they were required to pay for new road signs to the stations or something like that!