Why is Trent Barton better than other operators?

[Jozhua]

So I've noticed in my trips between Greater Manchester and Derby/Nottingham area how much more I'm willing to use the buses at home, essentially because they are run by Trent Barton.

The buses are clean, reasonably reliable and with the easy to use online bus tracker and Mango payment system, rather convenient. They seem to be a little bit cheaper too if you pay by Mango and the smart ticketing system doesn't just charge you essentially a flat rate, instead taking into account distance. Mango also speeds up boarding noticeably (which is important on a bus!), whilst also being able to do quite sophisticated things in regards to daily/weekly caps, etc. Buses also seem to generally be a lot newer than those run by other operators, even in Nottingham.

My question really is down to why is a relatively small bus company able to do these things, yet big players such as Stagecoach, First and Arriva not? I'm surprised they don't take a leaf out of Trent Barton's book, especially as ridership is declining in many areas and some councils such as Greater Manchester are looking at kicking out private operators entirely.

Is this just a case of the big guys being short sighted and looking to save as many costs as possible, at the expense of long term sustainability/growth? Or is there something more to it!

 

[overthewater]

Small? They never used to be this small.. Buses used to go to oakham, Grantham etc the amount cutback is never ending.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Alex Hornby. He's moved to Transdev in Yorkshire, and the quality has followed him.

 

[Jozhua]

Small? They never used to be this small.. Buses used to go to oakham, Grantham etc the amount cutback is never ending.

I'm sure this pattern of cutbacks isn't unique to Trent Barton, many other bus companies have been doing the same.

Alex Hornby. He's moved to Transdev in Yorkshire, and the quality has followed him.

Ah, is he some kind of bus mastermind?

To be honest, from my experiences with Indigo, My15, i4, Red Arrow and Comet have been good recently, still leagues ahead of other operators. The new Indigo buses feel futuristic!

 

[Megafuss]

I'd says that due to them not being part of a big groups means they aren't tied down to big picture thinking from somebody hundreds of miles away that only sees things on a spreadsheet.

From a customer view they also get the basics right. Clean, easy to understand timetables, bright clean buses, excellent marketing, proper oyster style fare capping. They are just easier to use than some other operators.

 

[Aictos]

I'd says that due to them not being part of a big groups means they aren't tied down to big picture thinking from somebody hundreds of miles away that only sees things on a spreadsheet.

From a customer view they also get the basics right. Clean, easy to understand timetables, bright clean buses, excellent marketing, proper oyster style fare capping. They are just easier to use than some other operators.

I could say the same with Centrebus as the fares are far cheaper then Arriva however if we use Bedfordshire as a example, Centrebus don’t run services as long in the day as Arriva.

 

[Robertj21a]

Alex Hornby. He's moved to Transdev in Yorkshire, and the quality has followed him.

Can't fully agree with that. Alex is just a marketing guy with a bit of flair, and ego. Don't get me wrong, I agree that he's good at it but TrentBarton was recognised as a cut above the others well before he even arrived on the scene.
You have to recognise that TrentBarton is part of the Wellglade Group, not a PLC with shareholders desperate for every possible %, and I'm sure that helps a lot - but I think many people would agree that the company's best asset is their well trained, customer-focused drivers.
Its certainly not true to say that their buses are 'a lot newer'.....'even in Nottingham'. Trent still run 03-reg Scanias and other quite elderly buses, just like most other operators - ironically, it's Nottingham C T that has one of the newest fleets in the country !

 

[embers25]

Growing up in Nottingham, Trent Barton (particularly the Barton part) always had a terrible rep as being very expensive and totally unreliable until Alex came along and transformed them. NCT have always been a cut above, now they both are.

 

[edwin_m]

NCT are also a highly regarded operator and although they aren't in head to head competition I suspect they help to keep each other honest.

 

[cnjb8]

So I've noticed in my trips between Greater Manchester and Derby/Nottingham area how much more I'm willing to use the buses at home, essentially because they are run by Trent Barton.

The buses are clean, reasonably reliable and with the easy to use online bus tracker and Mango payment system, rather convenient. They seem to be a little bit cheaper too if you pay by Mango and the smart ticketing system doesn't just charge you essentially a flat rate, instead taking into account distance. Mango also speeds up boarding noticeably (which is important on a bus!), whilst also being able to do quite sophisticated things in regards to daily/weekly caps, etc. Buses also seem to generally be a lot newer than those run by other operators, even in Nottingham.

My question really is down to why is a relatively small bus company able to do these things, yet big players such as Stagecoach, First and Arriva not? I'm surprised they don't take a leaf out of Trent Barton's book, especially as ridership is declining in many areas and some councils such as Greater Manchester are looking at kicking out private operators entirely.

Is this just a case of the big guys being short sighted and looking to save as many costs as possible, at the expense of long term sustainability/growth? Or is there something more to it!

If Artiva/First/Stagecoach did a TrentBarton style operation for all of their divisions, they'd go out of business

 

[edwin_m]

If Artiva/First/Stagecoach did a TrentBarton style operation for all of their divisions, they'd go out of business

Why would they?

 

[Jozhua]

Can't fully agree with that. Alex is just a marketing guy with a bit of flair, and ego. Don't get me wrong, I agree that he's good at it but TrentBarton was recognised as a cut above the others well before he even arrived on the scene.
You have to recognise that TrentBarton is part of the Wellglade Group, not a PLC with shareholders desperate for every possible %, and I'm sure that helps a lot - but I think many people would agree that the company's best asset is their well trained, customer-focused drivers.
Its certainly not true to say that their buses are 'a lot newer'.....'even in Nottingham'. Trent still run 03-reg Scanias and other quite elderly buses, just like most other operators - ironically, it's Nottingham C T that has one of the newest fleets in the country !

Hmm, still from my experience the buses on Indigo and My15 are a hell of a lot more modern than anything else I have experienced!

If Artiva/First/Stagecoach did a TrentBarton style operation for all of their divisions, they'd go out of business

They're already going out of business, at least in Greater Manchester, the buses are losing ridership despite a rising population... Go figure!

I think where Trent Barton does somewhat succeed is not having too many routes treading on each others toes while still offering decent coverage. They all serve distinct areas/markets.

There are some routes where Stagecoach does a reasonable job, the X17 between Sheffield/Chesterfield and Matlock is modern and quite useable.

 

[cnjb8]

Why would they?

in my opinion, the TrentBarton system works here and not on a large scale

 

[Robertj21a]

Hmm, still from my experience the buses on Indigo and My15 are a hell of a lot more modern than anything else I have experienced!



They're already going out of business, at least in Greater Manchester, the buses are losing ridership despite a rising population... Go figure!

I think where Trent Barton does somewhat succeed is not having too many routes treading on each others toes while still offering decent coverage. They all serve distinct areas/markets.

There are some routes where Stagecoach does a reasonable job, the X17 between Sheffield/Chesterfield and Matlock is modern and quite useable.

Well the buses on My15 are basic Versas and the Indigo is E20D MMC as far as I recall - all ok, and well looked after, but hardly 'a lot more modern'. If you travel around a lot more of the UK you will find even more to impress you.

 

[cnjb8]

Well the buses on My15 are basic Versas and the Indigo is E20D MMC as far as I recall - all ok, and well looked after, but hardly 'a lot more modern'. If you travel around a lot more of the UK you will find even more to impress you.

The My15 have the same standard as Indigo as they were upgraded at the beginning of 2018.

 

[Robertj21a]

The My15 have the same standard as Indigo as they were upgraded at the beginning of 2018.

Are you quite certain ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I could say the same with Centrebus as the fares are far cheaper then Arriva however if we use Bedfordshire as a example, Centrebus don’t run services as long in the day as Arriva.

And Centrebus doesn't have a strong brand etc, it looks very amateurish.

 

[Robertj21a]

And Centrebus doesn't have a strong brand etc, it looks very amateurish.

Not sure that I'd agree with that. Their literature is rather good and their livery bright and cheerful. Arriva is not exactly difficult to better !

 

[Aictos]

And Centrebus doesn't have a strong brand etc, it looks very amateurish.

I disagree, there are worse brands that look in your own words amateurish see SWR, Avanti West Coast etc with a brand that look like a 5 year old thought of.

 

[Swimbar]

Alex Hornby. He's moved to Transdev in Yorkshire, and the quality has followed him.

With the exception of the 36 the quality is certainly very variable in Yorkshire. The bull**** has certainly increased.

 

[90sWereBetter]

The only thing that seems surprising about Trent Barton is their steadfast refusal to buy double-deckers in any way, shape or form. Apart from maybe Cardiff Bus (and even they've got 23 deckers!), they're the only major bus operator in the UK still wedded to the idea of using single deckers on everything possible.

When was the last time Trent had new deckers, was it the NBC days?

 

[Robertj21a]

The only thing that seems surprising about Trent Barton is their steadfast refusal to buy double-deckers in any way, shape or form. Apart from maybe Cardiff Bus (and even they've got 23 deckers!), they're the only major bus operator in the UK still wedded to the idea of using single deckers on everything possible.

When was the last time Trent had new deckers, was it the NBC days?

I can recall those G-reg Volvo Citybus (?) deckers but can't think of anything since.

 

[ag51ruk]

The only thing that seems surprising about Trent Barton is their steadfast refusal to buy double-deckers in any way, shape or form. Apart from maybe Cardiff Bus (and even they've got 23 deckers!), they're the only major bus operator in the UK still wedded to the idea of using single deckers on everything possible.

When was the last time Trent had new deckers, was it the NBC days?

They say that passengers prefer single deck buses, which is also my personal preference. Remember that they don't run any dedicated school/contract buses that might need double deck buses, they are operated by a different Wellglade company (Notts and Derby) who do have a fleet of second hand double deckers

 

[cnjb8]

Are you quite certain ?

Nearly the same of course as Indigo is 1 year old buses.

The only thing that seems surprising about Trent Barton is their steadfast refusal to buy double-deckers in any way, shape or form. Apart from maybe Cardiff Bus (and even they've got 23 deckers!), they're the only major bus operator in the UK still wedded to the idea of using single deckers on everything possible.

When was the last time Trent had new deckers, was it the NBC days?

They have a policy about being able to see the driver. But some services really need it like Rainbow one, indigo, i4 etc...

 

[158756]

Trent Barton's route network is very different from most other operators. Everything's interurban or at least outer suburban, except in Derby where they happen to serve the wealthiest parts of the city, most routes are relatively fast, Wellglade have a separate brand for tendered services etc. First or Arriva might look a lot better if they ditched most of their routes.

 

[Jozhua]

They say that passengers prefer single deck buses, which is also my personal preference. Remember that they don't run any dedicated school/contract buses that might need double deck buses, they are operated by a different Wellglade company (Notts and Derby) who do have a fleet of second hand double deckers

I think single decks do feel a tad more modern to be honest. For some routes such as the My15, there are low bridges which could cause an issue too.

Nearly the same of course as Indigo is 1 year old buses.
They have a policy about being able to see the driver. But some services really need it like Rainbow one, indigo, i4 etc...

Indigo and i4 seem fine without them during rush hour, at least going Derby way. Sure there's a few standing near the city centre but that is to be expected.

I think frequency is important for these services and until they are down to maybe 5 minutes, then they'll probably stick with single deckers.

 

[cnjb8]

I think single decks do feel a tad more modern to be honest. For some routes such as the My15, there are low bridges which could cause an issue too.



Indigo and i4 seem fine without them during rush hour, at least going Derby way. Sure there's a few standing near the city centre but that is to be expected.

I think frequency is important for these services and until they are down to maybe 5 minutes, then they'll probably stick with single deckers.

Yes that's true, passengers dont want more seats but a less frequent service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Arriva MK have only one decker I believe, but it's of limited use as loadings aren't high and a number of routes have low bridges.

 

[Robertj21a]

Nearly the same of course as Indigo is 1 year old buses.
They have a policy about being able to see the driver. But some services really need it like Rainbow one, indigo, i4 etc...

I can only assume that we must be talking at cross purposes. Do you realise that the buses on 'My 15' are 11-reg (so over 8 years old) ?

 

[43055]

I can only assume that we must be talking at cross purposes. Do you realise that the buses on 'My 15' are 11-reg (so over 8 years old) ?

Yes but on the inside they are the same spec most off trent barton routes. I don't complain when my 10 year old villager bus turns up while the mickelover gets new or referbished buses every few years.

Part off it might be keeping the brand fresh and up to date. With the mickelover it is be haveing new buses as the route is well established and is unlikely to change while the villager it was a few years ago where the v1 and v2 merging and relaunched, creating an improved service and the newer buses came when were available.