Why is Trent Barton better than other operators?

[wazztie16]

Re double deckers on TB, its partly to do with passenger safety, if there's only a single deck, the driver can have an idea of what's happening, not just a view on a camera screen.

Which makes sense in my view.

 

[markymark2000]

Single deckers have lower dwell time as well as drivers aren't worrying about someone getting up stairs safely and into their seat. Less overall passengers on the bus means that drop offs are slightly quicker.
Another advantage is that there are more seats without steps to get to them. This pleases a lot of less able passengers who would struggle with the stairs.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Just a shame their network is confusing with some ridiculous route numbers (or lack of...). Common sense was clearly out the door when they decided to number a service 6.4 etc

 

[Jozhua]

I can only assume that we must be talking at cross purposes. Do you realise that the buses on 'My 15' are 11-reg (so over 8 years old) ?

My15 buses feel new, I think they may have had a refurb or something. I'm definitely less of an expert on bus models than trains lol.

Just a shame their network is confusing with some ridiculous route numbers (or lack of...). Common sense was clearly out the door when they decided to number a service 6.4 etc

I don't know, having a name helps to make them distinct from one another. If I were somewhere new, I'd find it easier to identify a named bus than a numbered one.

It's also quite distinct branding, each route stands out from one another and it feels less like just another bus.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I don't know, having a name helps to make them distinct from one another. If I were somewhere new, I'd find it easier to identify a named bus than a numbered one.

It's also quite distinct branding, each route stands out from one another and it feels less like just another bus.

I disagree entirely, as does practically every other operator in the UK. A number such as "14" is far easier to remember than some stupid gimmick like "Black Cat", or "I4"

 

[edwin_m]

They also have the annoying practice of using the same route or brand to serve multiple destinations. They could easily have a number for the main part of the route and suffix letters to identify the sub-route at the outer end, or something similar. With modern displays they could still have the branding and alternate it with the route and destination.

 

[njlawley]

They also have the annoying practice of using the same route or brand to serve multiple destinations. They could easily have a number for the main part of the route and suffix letters to identify the sub-route at the outer end, or something similar. With modern displays they could still have the branding and alternate it with the route and destination.

My personal preference would be to have a route number linked to the brand, like X43 is to the Witch Way in Lancashire. I don't like this having the brand take preference over the route number (such as with Blazefield).

This alternating route with brand on a destination display isn't a good idea, as best practice guidelines state that both should be clearly displayed at all times. That's why having a route number is better - plus there are a lot of systems that can only handle a route number of three or four digits at most.

 

[Alexbus12]

I disagree entirely, as does practically every other operator in the UK. A number such as "14" is far easier to remember than some stupid gimmick like "Black Cat", or "I4"

Agreed

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Biggest flaw with Trent currently is they do social media, but DON'T put cancellations of journeys on social media. They will sometimes respond to requests as sorry it isn't running but I have had my own requests for info deleted in the past month (the journey disappeared off tracker - turned up 20 late untracked with no working ticket machine). If you have social media use it -keep the travelling public informed otherwise just don't use social media and leave us in limbo as was the situation 30 years ago.
Secondly - in times of extreme pressure they will abandon outer sections of route. ie Comet terminating at Alfreton and 6.1 at Matlock and not running further north due to traffic delays and going over drivers hours. The other day there were no Comets out of Chesterfield after 1550 for the rest of the evening - they regularly leave passengers stranded - and with no information!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I disagree entirely, as does practically every other operator in the UK. A number such as "14" is far easier to remember than some stupid gimmick like "Black Cat", or "I4"

The brands are good but should come with a number too.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Common sense was clearly out the door when they decided to number a service 6.4 etc

I actually like that, I don't see it as too different from using suffixes. I wouldn't mind if (for example) the Banbury Road routes in Oxford went from 2/2A/2B to 2.1/2.2/2.3.

The names are the issue for me - I like (ideally short) route numbers. Then again, I don't like some of the numbers in places like West Yorkshire, where they're mostly well into three figures (the renumbering in the likes of Keighley definitely improves the network).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I actually like that, I don't see it as too different from using suffixes. I wouldn't mind if (for example) the Banbury Road routes in Oxford went from 2/2A/2B to 2.1/2.2/2.3.

I'm not sure I mind these either. Even if you miss seeing the . it just looks like 21/22/23 which is how some other companies would number it.

It's the names without numbers I'm less enamoured to.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I disagree, there are worse brands that look in your own words amateurish see SWR, Avanti West Coast etc with a brand that look like a 5 year old thought of.

Have to disagree; those brands look fine to me, whereas Centrebus looks like Julian Peddle knocked it up on his laptop while sat at home watching Neighbours one evening. Among all the Best Impressions jobs and similar, it really does look basic and "small guy", particularly the unimaginative font.

With the exception of the 36 the quality is certainly very variable in Yorkshire. The bull**** has certainly increased.

Hornby does "bluster" a bit, but unlike Alex Hynes (the king of "bluster") he does seem to be able to do a fairly good job of managing delivery too, or at least works with companies who can. It's more than just the 36, the Witch Way has been mentioned elsewhere, as have the Harrogate Electrics.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Hornby does "bluster" a bit, but unlike Alex Hynes (the king of "bluster") he does seem to be able to do a fairly good job of managing delivery too, or at least works with companies who can. It's more than just the 36, the Witch Way has been mentioned elsewhere, as have the Harrogate Electrics.

On a recent visit to the Transdev area I found their overall standard good, but not exceptional. They're certainly overhyped, just like I find Trent Barton to be - I'd consider Go North East about a similar standard (and some operators like Reading significantly better).

 

[Temple Meads]

I disagree entirely, as does practically every other operator in the UK. A number such as "14" is far easier to remember than some stupid gimmick like "Black Cat", or "I4"

I strongly suspect that the average non-enthusiast would find it a lot easier to remember a brand than a random number.

Of course the key is then consistency - in particular keeping the branded buses on the right route, which is probably one of the reasons why operators keep their numbering systems.

In Devon we have a couple of examples of brand only routes, such as the Stagecoach 'GOLD' route between Torquay and Plymouth, as well as the 'Foxhole Fox' in Paignton, the latter is not a great example, at best featuring Solos with minimal stickers, often unbranded buses only displaying 'Fox' on the destination displays.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The brands are good but should come with a number too.

This is how i view it too. It's a shame as they do seem a decent operator but the lack of common sense in some places is annoying to say the least!

I strongly suspect that the average non-enthusiast would find it a lot easier to remember a brand than a random number.

Of course the key is then consistency - in particular keeping the branded buses on the right route, which is probably one of the reasons why operators keep their numbering systems.

In Devon we have a couple of examples of brand only routes, such as the Stagecoach 'GOLD' route between Torquay and Plymouth, as well as the 'Foxhole Fox' in Paignton, the latter is not a great example, at best featuring Solos with minimal stickers, often unbranded buses only displaying 'Fox' on the destination displays.

I disagree, the difference to some extent with those examples are they still have a number. We have some brands up here and if someone asked how to get to Dyce they'd be told to catch the 17, 18, X27 or 35 not the "Northern Lights" or "Get A Bonnie View Fae The Top Deck Buses". Numbers are just easier to remember than brands, that's why the vast majority of operators use them.

I actually like that, I don't see it as too different from using suffixes. I wouldn't mind if (for example) the Banbury Road routes in Oxford went from 2/2A/2B to 2.1/2.2/2.3.

The names are the issue for me - I like (ideally short) route numbers. Then again, I don't like some of the numbers in places like West Yorkshire, where they're mostly well into three figures (the renumbering in the likes of Keighley definitely improves the network).

Why not just go with 21/22/23 then, albeit in some cases suffixes can be better. For example until recent First here had a 3A and 3G, the bonus of those numbers being that a 3A went to "Altens" while a 3G went to "Gateway", so some logical thinking - albeit it's inconsistent now as the bus via Altens recently became the 3B which to me looks far too much like a 38! I don't take much issue with the 6.4 numbers, it just seems pointless when they could've went with 64. "sixty four" is far easier to remember than "Six point four".

It's not the brands or brand names that bother me, it's just the over emphasis on them to the point where they don't bother with route numbers

 

[Aictos]

Have to disagree; those brands look fine to me, whereas Centrebus looks like Julian Peddle knocked it up on his laptop while sat at home watching Neighbours one evening. Among all the Best Impressions jobs and similar, it really does look basic and "small guy", particularly the unimaginative font.

I disagree, the logo on SWR is just a pair of lines at a angle with a depressing grey and white livery as to Avanti well it’s a it’s a orange triangle - both I’ve could have designed in MS Paint in 5 secs and said there you go.

Neither of them come close to GWR for one as to Centrebus, the service is reliable, inexpensive compared to Arriva and does the job well.

You say the livery looks basic but I could say the same about the basic arriva and stagecoach liveries etc....

I’ve yet to use Trent Barton so can’t comment on them.

 

[Robertj21a]

Have to disagree; those brands look fine to me, whereas Centrebus looks like Julian Peddle knocked it up on his laptop while sat at home watching Neighbours one evening. Among all the Best Impressions jobs and similar, it really does look basic and "small guy", particularly the unimaginative font.



Hornby does "bluster" a bit, but unlike Alex Hynes (the king of "bluster") he does seem to be able to do a fairly good job of managing delivery too, or at least works with companies who can. It's more than just the 36, the Witch Way has been mentioned elsewhere, as have the Harrogate Electrics.

Just goes to show how subjective all this is. I see no problem with the Centrebus livery or branding whatsoever. It's bright, simple and does what it says on the tin. Some others that have been mentioned seem to just be the work of a creative studio that could be blandly applied to virtually anything.
Alex is clearly OTT, and annoying to many people. He's very good at the job but seems to struggle with when to stop the hype and return to the ground.

 

[Aictos]

Just goes to show how subjective all this is. I see no problem with the Centrebus livery or branding whatsoever. It's bright, simple and does what it says on the tin. Some others that have been mentioned seem to just be the work of a creative studio that could be blandly applied to virtually anything.
Alex is clearly OTT, and annoying to many people. He's very good at the job but seems to struggle with when to stop the hype and return to the ground.

I quite agree!

 

[njlawley]

I disagree, the difference to some extent with those examples are they still have a number. We have some brands up here and if someone asked how to get to Dyce they'd be told to catch the 17, 18, X27 or 35 not the "Northern Lights" or "Get A Bonnie View Fae The Top Deck Buses". Numbers are just easier to remember than brands, that's why the vast majority of operators use them.

If someone was not familiar with an area, there is a risk that multiple brands look like different companies. If someone didn't know beforehand and turned up in Burnley, they could think that Mainline and Burnley Bus Co are two different companies. Likewise in Blackburn, where buses are still running around with Lancashire United fleetnames - the average visitor isn't going to know that LU and Blackburn Bus Co are the same thing!

I don't take much issue with the 6.4 numbers, it just seems pointless when they could've went with 64. "sixty four" is far easier to remember than "Six point four".

That's what the sixes used to be. The 61/62/63/64 just had a decimal point added in the middle. Same happened with the Sevens (since reverted back to 71/72 when they passed to N&D) and Nines.

 

[Swimbar]

On a recent visit to the Transdev area I found their overall standard good, but not exceptional. They're certainly overhyped, just like I find Trent Barton to be - I'd consider Go North East about a similar standard (and some operators like Reading significantly better).

The Harrogate Electrics is a case in point. Loads of Hype from AH but they actually entered service months late, by which time AH and Transdev had resorted to blaming everybody else including Northern Powergen.
Actually crap Project Management!

 

[cnjb8]

Alex Hornby said that branding services with names was like Cadburys chocolate bars. Almost everyone can feel off some chocolate bar names, similar with TB brands. I suppose this may apply to people who have lived all or most of lives using their buses, like me. But how do you explain the rise in passenger numbers when the fare rate rises every few months and service withdrawals!

 

[Andyh82]

I’m sure the Trent Barton named services both occurred before he arrived and after he left, so I don’t know why this is yet again an Alex Hornby bashing thread?

 

[Skymonster]

TB is pretty good when things are going well, but when the proverbial wheels fall off it can be atrocious. No information is ever offered about one-off cancellations (how hard can it be to have someone in the traffic office posting on Twitter?) and even the office in Derby Bus Station isn’t staffed early or late enough to be truly effective when passengers need information or a bus service is missing without leave. I use Swift regularly and at least one of the three branded vehicles is perpetually off the road broken down, leaving the service operated in part by a clapped out generic full size bus or one of the midi-sized vehicles that is hopelessly inadequate at times when the school kids are travelling. The hourly Swift also seems like an unloved route as far as TB is concerned with no at seat power and no Wi-fi (come on TB, even Arriva Derby manage that across the fleet) and rarely runs to time during busy periods. The newish contactless system slows things down if passengers elect to both tap on and off with a credit / debit card, as the process is somewhat slower than mango. Big positives is the drivers are friendly and helpful.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I’m sure the Trent Barton named services both occurred before he arrived and after he left, so I don’t know why this is yet again an Alex Hornby bashing thread?

Indeed, AH arrived in 2010 at TB. Route branding (sans service numbers) has been a feature since the early 1990s.

As for Swimbar’s comments, he’s clearly never had to work with utilities companies. Yes, you can build in contingency on your critical path but if a third party doesn’t play ball, it doesn’t matter how great your project management is!

I’m no fan of AH’s self promotion but keep stuff in perspective. Robert hits the nail squarely. There’s a bit too much hype and not everything is 100% #amazing. However, Transdev’s generally better than most and there’s some ambition to at least promote bus services rather than simply paint them in lilac or light blue and accept decline.

TrentBarton has long been a pioneer in moving the industry forward. Branding, driver customer care training, innovative vehicle design, customer charters etc. Perfection is a tricky ask and whilst TB aren’t, they’re pretty good and were when most firms were still running clapped out Nationals!

 

[ivanhoe]

Experienced the Sky Link Network yesterday, on getting from Attenborough to Loughborough. Firstly, frequency to EMA, excellent
Secondly Quality of Buses: Trent Barton Skylink, excellent, Kinch Skylinks beginning to look dated, well worn, by comparison.
Thirdly, Marvel on how they have managed to turn these routes into winners. Yes , it attracts passengers for the airport, (The car is still king though for EMA flights) serves the industries around the airport, have reconnected Leicestershire villagers, and have attracted new passengers for the non airport related, part of the routes.
The airport is now a hive of connectivity branching off to Derby,Long Eaton, Nottingham, Shepshed and Coalville, Villages, Loughborough and Leicester. They have evolved in a way, I thought was not possible. TB have done a great job.

 

[cnjb8]

Experienced the Sky Link Network yesterday, on getting from Attenborough to Loughborough. Firstly, frequency to EMA, excellent
Secondly Quality of Buses: Trent Barton Skylink, excellent, Kinch Skylinks beginning to look dated, well worn, by comparison.
Thirdly, Marvel on how they have managed to turn these routes into winners. Yes , it attracts passengers for the airport, (The car is still king though for EMA flights) serves the industries around the airport, have reconnected Leicestershire villagers, and have attracted new passengers for the non airport related, part of the routes.
The airport is now a hive of connectivity branching off to Derby,Long Eaton, Nottingham, Shepshed and Coalville, Villages, Loughborough and Leicester. They have evolved in a way, I thought was not possible. TB have done a great job.

It's a shame the airport is so car dependant although that's down to the 'dedicated' train station being 10 minutes away using roads prone to heavy traffic.

 

[Robertj21a]

The 'White Elephant' that is East Midlands Parkway wasn't opened primarily to serve the Airport. The road is actually excellent, and fast, there's only Jct 24 to upset things at times.

 

[LowLevel]

Experienced the Sky Link Network yesterday, on getting from Attenborough to Loughborough. Firstly, frequency to EMA, excellent
Secondly Quality of Buses: Trent Barton Skylink, excellent, Kinch Skylinks beginning to look dated, well worn, by comparison.
Thirdly, Marvel on how they have managed to turn these routes into winners. Yes , it attracts passengers for the airport, (The car is still king though for EMA flights) serves the industries around the airport, have reconnected Leicestershire villagers, and have attracted new passengers for the non airport related, part of the routes.
The airport is now a hive of connectivity branching off to Derby,Long Eaton, Nottingham, Shepshed and Coalville, Villages, Loughborough and Leicester. They have evolved in a way, I thought was not possible. TB have done a great job.

Skylink isn't bad. The other Kinch routes they've let slide right downhill though. Broken down buses on the side of the road or being towed are not an uncommon sight, whether they're the newer Mercedes vehicles or the 15 plus year old Scanias. A sign that things aren't well are the University specified Sprint Solos turning up on Skylink.

 

[cnjb8]

The 'White Elephant' that is East Midlands Parkway wasn't opened primarily to serve the Airport. The road is actually excellent, and fast, there's only Jct 24 to upset things at times.

Yes but resulting traffic from M1 and 10 minute journey is not acceptable