Will corridor carriages ever come back to our railways?

[ac6000cw]

Not exactly the same thing, but in some modern EMU and DMU stock (with 1/3-2/3 door layouts and no end corridor connections), the small First Class sections at the outer ends are effectively compartments since they have doors which separate those areas from the rest of the carriage e.g. GN 365s

 

[tsr]

On a different but related note, I often wish I could turn off the blazing overhead lighting in modern stock and just have an individual reading light, as used to be possible in the old compartment stock. Much cozier, and you can still get some view of the countryside - but I suppose modern Elf & Safety rules have put paid to that.

You can do that on 377s. Guards have a "Dim Lights" button on every other panel. This can be used in conjunction with the reading lights on the luggage racks. It's not done very often, as it is usually better to give people that bit more extra light to avoid tripping over luggage, etc. It's mainly meant for ECS workings where there are still staff onboard.

Also, on 377/6 or /7 series units, you have a small pair of bays of standard class seats between one of the vestibules and the area dubiously marked as "First Class", which provides a convenient, slightly quieter and more cosy little spot to sit. It's not as good as a compartment, but it's very pleasant as seating areas go.

 

[Springs Branch]

I think corridor/compartment stock may have survived close to a generation or so longer in Europe compared to UK.

- I remember taking a fast Milan - Rome Inter-city train around 1990 (pre-Frecce of course) and travelling in a seemingly new First Class compartment with the corridor windows and doors pretty much all glass. At a time when Mk2/3 FOs had been de rigueur on BR InterCity for a number of years.

- And only a couple of years ago, seeing a very smart Austrian ÖBB Euro-City train in Germany with part of its First Class accommodation made up of 6-seat compartments.

- Plus the TGV Atlantiques have an odd semi-compartment arrangement in some of the First Class coaches, with 2+2 seats in a sort of compartment with no door, and normal 1+1 seats opposite across the gangway (and no easy way of knowing what you're booking when buying your ticket, as I remember)

 

[D365]

Not exactly the same thing, but in some modern EMU and DMU stock (with 1/3-2/3 door layouts and no end corridor connections), the small First Class sections at the outer ends are effectively compartments since they have doors which separate those areas from the rest of the carriage e.g. GN 365s

It's been reported that when the Queen travels to Sandringham via. Kings Lynn that she 'books out' one of the first class compartments on a Class 365. If this arrangement continues our Monarch will presumably convert to riding on a 377/5, another Great British EMU

 

[Aldaniti]

Another disadvantage is lack of tables. Even with airline seats, you might get a fold-down table.

Crime was a worse with non-corridor compartment stock, so the situation actually probably improved with corridor compartments!

DB have some lovely first class compartments with proper tables and leather seats in the ICE trains. They're very nice and I don't read reports about crime and safety issues. Things are often much more civilised across the channel....

 

[route:oxford]

Doesn't the Eurostar stock have a "specialist" compartment that can be used as a cell?

 

[cjmillsnun]

The last ever corridor carriages to be built were the Mark 2D FK. These are now obsolete on Britain's railways and I don't even think they were used after privatisation in the mid 1990s. I can't recall Virgin or FGW using mark 2D FKs. Unless anyone knows anything different.

Perhaps the last ever corridor carriages to see regular service on Britain's railways were 4CEP formations which were phased out in 2004.

Does anyone think that future train/rolling stock manufacturers or TOCs may bring back corridor stock in Britain? The advantages are privacy for passengers especially families etc. Any disadvantages?

I can still remember as a kid when the majority of loco hauled stock was mark 1 corridor.

Actually the last corridor stock built was the DMF car on the 442s, whilst they were nice they were ripped out for GatEx operation.

I doubt corridor stock will return to service trains, it just isn't practical.
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Doesn't the Eurostar stock have a "specialist" compartment that can be used as a cell?

I believe there is one in each half set.

 

[edwin_m]

According to Modern Railways, the Eurostar Velaros will have a couple of compartments in First for those who need privacy.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

The last compartments I used were on the sleeper from Penzance to Paddington. Two coaches, often one open coach and the front a brake coach with compartments, rest train was sleeping cars. Compartment nearest engine had stickers on the door, 'Train Crews Only' Next two had 'Ladies Only'
the other compartment for all public.
Some people stretched out using the whole 4 seats.
Always preferred the compartments. Handy in the Motorail days where each car had a reserved compartment.
Can't see any will be built in the future.Security/Safety etc

 

[bavvo]

I was going to make a similar comment. Whether it's what the OP was looking for, I'm not sure...

I always liked corridor compartment stock, but I'm male and was in my early twenties the last time I used such stock. I can appreciate the potential issues they might have raised for others. The last new-build corridor compartments were on the 442s (first-class only, pre-Southern), and I'd be shocked if we ever see them (compartments, not 442s!) again in regular daytime service.

I think, that there was even a 2nd class compartment in the corridor coach, as I recall using one in my youth. Even then it seemed a bit of an anachronism, although I really liked it.
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Never say never.... Although I think it unlikely, there could be a small role for compartments on future long distance, high speed stock. Businesses and government organisations have a need for privacy, and an exclusively bookable, first class compartment could fulfil that need, allowing private meetings on the move. It certainly wouldn't be cheap to book, but for commercial organisations that need privacy, they might well pay a premium for such a service. Might even turn up on HS2 one day.

I believe similar 'private suites' also exist in Europe (possibly on ICE trains?).

 

[Penmorfa]

The other big disadvantage in the UK loading gauge is the very narrow corridor alongside the compartments. Remember how tight a squeeze it was to pass anyone?

 

[atillathehunn]

I had a compartment on a train from Paris to La Roche (the train would continue to Lyon via Dijon and most of the other known universe) about 2 years ago travelling from seeing the better half in Tilburg to a tiny village in Burgundy.

Cracking fun. Ended up in there with a woman from Chad who - despite my rusty French - ended up taking a shine to me and sharing many of the foods from her homeland that she had brought with her.

 

[DarloRich]

surely all this talk of crime is a red herring - the reasons compartments wont come back ( or why they were removed) is simple: you can cram more people into an open carriage and make more money doing so

 

[edwin_m]

surely all this talk of crime is a red herring - the reasons compartments wont come back ( or why they were removed) is simple: you can cram more people into an open carriage and make more money doing so

They also take more effort (=cost) to clean.

 

[jopsuk]

not enough seats & dirty trains are two of the most common complaints both here and generally

 

[DaleCooper]

The compartments in corridor coaches provided great settings for thriller films and comedy sketches.

 

[ac6000cw]

A bit off topic, but in relation to First Class compartments wasn't it the importation of some Pullman cars (and the service concept) from the US by the Midland Railway in 1874 that introduced the 'open saloon' to UK railways ?

At that point, I guess you could argue that open saloons became the upmarket carriage layout....

 

[DelW]

Also, on 377/6 or /7 series units, you have a small pair of bays of standard class seats between one of the vestibules and the area dubiously marked as "First Class", which provides a convenient, slightly quieter and more cosy little spot to sit. It's not as good as a compartment, but it's very pleasant as seating areas go.

SWT's 444s have an area between the accessible toilet and the end of the coach, which has a 4-seat bay each side of the gangway. There is also one single seat next to one of the bays which may be unique in being a standard class single seat.

 

[Mikey C]

The compartments in corridor coaches provided great settings for thriller films and comedy sketches.

Yes!
It's surprising how often compartments have featured in fairly 'topical' comedy sketch shows long after they'd disappeared off the network!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think, that there was even a 2nd class compartment in the corridor coach, as I recall using one in my youth. Even then it seemed a bit of an anachronism, although I really liked it.

I don't recall there being a standard compartment on the 442s. Could you be thinking of the CIG/CEP/VEP units which had one standard compartment alongside the 3/4 first class ones in each compartmented vehicle.

 

[bavvo]

I don't recall there being a standard compartment on the 442s. Could you be thinking of the CIG/CEP/VEP units which had one standard compartment alongside the 3/4 first class ones in each compartmented vehicle.

Could be, my memory is not that reliable these days

Still, I'm fairly sure it was a modern (at the time) Wessex train. Maybe they declassified one for an experiment? Although I also thought it was an 8 seater as opposed to the 6 seater 1st compartments.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Still, I'm fairly sure it was a modern (at the time) Wessex train. Maybe they declassified one for an experiment? Although I also thought it was an 8 seater as opposed to the 6 seater 1st compartments.

You're thinking of the snug area in the buffet car that they had early on?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

My memory isn't 100% reliable either... There may have been a single standard compartment when first introduced, but I'm fairly sure there wasn't in SWT days.

 

[cjmillsnun]

My memory isn't 100% reliable either... There may have been a single standard compartment when first introduced, but I'm fairly sure there wasn't in SWT days.

No they were open coaches only in standard. The old slammers were the ones that had the standard compartment.

 

[Springs Branch]

On another tangent, but still the compartment theme......

I understand one reason for having non-corridor compartments on suburban trains was to maximise the number of seats provided.

But what happened in the case of 4-SUBs and the like, when the train was rammed, every seat was taken but there were no corridors or vestibules to stand in?

Did passengers then stand in the compartments and was there enough foot room in there to do this? Without any straps to hang onto, presumably they steadied themselves on those luggage racks/ receptacles for lost umbrellas. I travelled on a few of these trains, but never when they were overcrowded.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes, there was some degree of standing in compartments, but not an awful lot - remember, loadings were generally lower in those days and people tended to spread out more along the length of the train.

Not every carriage was of the closed compartment type either, there were non-corridor open saloon type carriages as well which afforded standing space between the seats in the aisle - most standees would be in those carriages.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, there was some degree of standing in compartments, but not an awful lot - remember, loadings were generally lower in those days and people tended to spread out more along the length of the train.

Not every carriage was of the closed compartment type either, there were non-corridor open saloon type carriages as well which afforded standing space between the seats in the aisle - most standees would be in those carriages.

The ratio was generally (but not exclusively) 1/4 compo and 3/4 saloon for EPB's and later SUB's.

 

[30907]

Yes, there was some degree of standing in compartments, but not an awful lot - remember, loadings were generally lower in those days and people tended to spread out more along the length of the train.

Depends where you were. My late 70's commute was Shortlands - Waterloo by a variety of routes. I remember the Waterloo suburbans as being relatively uncrowded then (yes,really!), but the Dartford lines could be horrendous, even if there were no cancellations (which was rare).
I used to reckon crush load on an EPB as around 200% of seating, but 12 standing in a compartment would have been thankfully rare and very unpleasant whereas 10 in a saloon bay was ok.
The Chatham side wasnt generally as bad, but a short - formed 1542 Vic - Orpington could be dire on schooldays (cf username!)

 

[yorksrob]

Depends where you were. My late 70's commute was Shortlands - Waterloo by a variety of routes. I remember the Waterloo suburbans as being relatively uncrowded then (yes,really!), but the Dartford lines could be horrendous, even if there were no cancellations (which was rare).
I used to reckon crush load on an EPB as around 200% of seating, but 12 standing in a compartment would have been thankfully rare and very unpleasant whereas 10 in a saloon bay was ok.
The Chatham side wasnt generally as bad, but a short - formed 1542 Vic - Orpington could be dire on schooldays (cf username!)

Illustrates why the ten car train scheme was undertaken on the Southeastern, rather than the Southwestern division.

 

[bavvo]

My memory isn't 100% reliable either... There may have been a single standard compartment when first introduced, but I'm fairly sure there wasn't in SWT days.

Well if I remember correctly (and I have my doubts) it was before privatisation. I'm probably wrong about the 442s then, but I wonder what I did see?