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Will crossrail be 24 hours?

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matt_world2004

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Assuming it would take over fgw local stopper franchise commitments it will be 24 hours on every day except Saturday night between Paddington and Reading.
 

edwin_m

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I don't think there has been any announcement regarding the central section. But given the advent of the night tube I can't see how Crossrail could not be 24hr at weekends - but perhaps not initially until operation has bedded in. With brand new infrastructure to modern standards, the time needed for maintenance ought to be much less than for Tube lines.

Incidentally the central section is bi-directionally signalled but due to the lack of enough crossovers it wouldn't be possible to run a viable service on a single track even at quiet times. It's possible the first and last trains of the day (which could be ECS) could run wrong line to give more time for engineering access.
 

LeeLivery

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24hrs is almost certain, hopefully 6 nights a week. With 24hr (very badly publicised) GWML services already, plus Thameslink & Night Tube, can't see it not happening between Reading/Heathrow to Shenfield at least.
 

miami

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2 trains overnight from Paddington between 0030 and 0530. With that frequency I guess you could operate it on a single track through the tunnel section.
 

Bletchleyite

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2 trains overnight from Paddington between 0030 and 0530. With that frequency I guess you could operate it on a single track through the tunnel section.

I do hope they are spread out sensibly and that they don't take the mick and make them 0031 and 0529.

I suppose the overnight Paddington service could still be operated by GWR?
 

Mikey C

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With the first departure from Heathrow around 6am, it would be nice to have trains running earlier than the current HEx start time of 5:10
 

332 > 444

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With the first departure from Heathrow around 6am, it would be nice to have trains running earlier than the current HEx start time of 5:10

First HEc to depart London is 4:42 which departs Heathrow is 5:23 from T4, which is just over an hour from the 3:34 GWR departure to Reading.

Problem is the east side where the first to depart Shenfield is 4:44, before the TfL takeover, it reached Stratford at 5:10, now it don't reach there till 5:19. They are going to have to do some serious reworking to even try to link them up.
 

MCR247

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First HEc to depart London is 4:42 which departs Heathrow is 5:23 from T4, which is just over an hour from the 3:34 GWR departure to Reading.

Problem is the east side where the first to depart Shenfield is 4:44, before the TfL takeover, it reached Stratford at 5:10, now it don't reach there till 5:19. They are going to have to do some serious reworking to even try to link them up.

I don't understand? The first Shenfield - London will run through to Reading but it doesn't have to be the first London - Reading train? Shorts could start at Ilford/Stratford/Paddington wherever really
 

Class 170101

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GEML has trains operating on it continously between Stratford and Ipswich 04:00 Monday to about 01:30 Sunday. Two track railway overnight.

GWML is similar overnight also.
 

Hophead

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24hrs is almost certain, hopefully 6 nights a week. With 24hr (very badly publicised) GWML services already, plus Thameslink & Night Tube, can't see it not happening between Reading/Heathrow to Shenfield at least.

Abbey Wood seems rather more likely, as there'd be no no running on to the regular network.
 

swt_passenger

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I emailed Crossrail with a question about 24/7 running, and they replied:

Night operation - CLR-00-152842

Thank you for your email on the 30th of March 2016,

At present Crossrail is not due to run a 24 hour service when fully operational. In addition no timetable has been finalised for the service yet. It is worth highlighting that TfL will be responsible for the running and timetabling of Crossrail. It could be worth your while getting in touch with TfL to receive updates of when new timetable information is released.

So there's almost no certainty at all...
 

JamesRowden

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I think that it is quite possible that a semi-fast Reading-Paddington GWR service will take the place of the present night stopper rather than making Crossrail operate a night service. Operating a diesel service would mean that the electrification would not need to be live during the night and should cost less than operating a Crossrail electric train (and a 4-car GWR electric service would also cost less). Operating semi-fast would also potentially allow a more frequent service per unit staff.
 

swt_passenger

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Operating a diesel service would mean that the electrification would not need to be live during the night and should cost less than operating a Crossrail electric train (and a 4-car GWR electric service would also cost less)...

I can't think of any precedent for turning mainline electrification off overnight as an economy measure. Neither DC or AC ever go off, except for during engineering possessions.
 

JamesRowden

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I can't think of any precedent for turning mainline electrification off overnight as an economy measure. Neither DC or AC ever go off, except for during engineering possessions.

I thought that it would allow some of the power system to worked on without closing the line.
 
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Schnuzelbug

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Considering the Night Tube won't serve anywhere near Eailing (big catchment area), I suppose running Crossrail to serve Eailing Broadway during the night is a logical stance.
 

Mojo

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Considering the Night Tube won't serve anywhere near Eailing (big catchment area), I suppose running Crossrail to serve Eailing Broadway during the night is a logical stance.

Huh? Ealing is probably one of the best connected parts of London in terms of the Night Tube service! The Central line will be running to Ealing Broadway and the Piccadilly line has stations in Ealing such as South Ealing (~20 Min walk to Ealing Broadway) and Northfields (~20 Min walk to West Ealing station).
 

swt_passenger

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I thought that it would allow some of the power system to worked on without closing the line.

They achieve that by building in switchgear redundancy and second sources of supply, such as cross feeding around neutral sections in AC systems.

The actual overhead and catenary or third rail can stay live while the switchgear is being maintained. Just like the way your household power should never go off for a period of time during preventive maintenance.
 

edwin_m

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Given that the GWML has four tracks I'd be very surprised if Mr Phlopp and his friends hadn't managed to devise a solution where at two of them can be kept open and live at all times except for the heaviest possible engineering works. Although Crossrail will normallly use the Relief lines, they can use the Mains instead at quiet times. Where intermediate stations have platforms on the Mains these will be upgraded for Crossrail, although as far as I know none of the stations without main line platforms will have them added.

Very much the same no doubt applies to the GE route, so there is no reason why both couldn't run an overnight service. The Crossrail central section would be able to do so several nights a week.
 

JamesRowden

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I can't think of any precedent for turning mainline electrification off overnight as an economy measure. Neither DC or AC ever go off, except for during engineering possessions.

The cost saving which I was referring to was the costs required to run a 2-4 car train compared to a Crossrail train.
 
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edwin_m

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The cost saving which I was referring to was the costs required to run a 2-4 car train compared to a Crossrail train.

But if it's a diesel it probably costs as much to run as an EMU of twice the length anyway, so the cost saving is not great especially if the diesel has to make an extra journey from somewhere else. The cheapest option would probably be one of GWR's future 4-car EMU fleet.
 
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JamesRowden

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But if it's a diesel it probably costs as much to run as an EMU of twice the length anyway, so the cost saving is not great especially if the diesel has to make an extra journey from somewhere else. The cheapest option would probably be one of GWR's future 4-car EMU fleet.

I wasn't saying that it should be diesel. I was just stating that even a GWR diesel would cheaper than a Crossrail train. (And I was putting too much of my imagination into the first post which led to people misunderstanding my views).

I looked at what the Greenford shuttle train presently does after that branch closes, and just found that it operates the night service between Paddington and Reading from 23:00 to 2:30 (2 west bound & 1 east bound) and then returns to the depot at Reading. Therefore it might make sense for at least two services a day on an electrified GWML to be operated using a turbo ;)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Then again Chiltern could take over the Greenford branch and solve this problem. ;)
 

silverfoxcc

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More to the point, Why havent they installed toilets? A city 'gent' on his way home from Liverpool St to Reading at 23.30 or so will certainly have problems around Slough and another 30 mins to go!!( or rather NOT to go) Still plenty of jobs for the local unwashed to be well bersed in the cleaning and disposal of biological wastes so the carriages are suitable for the next passengers

Ron
 

matt_world2004

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Hopefully not. The overnight services are almost like staff trains at times, so there is an operational advantage to running these.

If they do remain and are run by GwR I wonder if Crossrail staff will be able to use them FOC. Or if they become taken over by Crossrail will GwR Staff be able to use them FOC.
 

Class 170101

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Yes, although Liverpool Street can't take the full-length trains until some remodelling is done, so the first Crossrail trains will have a couple of coaches removed.

16 - 18 can't take full length trains today. The rest of the platforms could take a full length Crossrail Train today.
 

plcd1

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I've had a look at the Crossrail Concession Agreement but unfortunately there is no detail about the level of service to be operated. This is something that TfL can and will specify at particular points.

Given the emerging precedent about all night services at weekends on the Tube and London Overground and DLR I'd expect some level of Crossrail night service to operate. As a minimum I'd say the service would run Abbey Wood - Paddington as the infrastructure will be in TfL's control (largely). The extent to which services run to / from the GEML / GWML will depend on the view of the DfT and Network Rail's maintenance / access arrangements.

I suspect TfL may wait until they have the full Crossrail service up and running and bedded down before they introduce all night services. However TfL will be under pressure from whoever is the Mayor to get services running before the May 2020 Mayoral Election (assuming that Crossrail's introduction runs exactly to schedule).
 
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