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Will Euston get a HS2 Upgrade?

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Up_Tilt_390

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Considering that London Euston station is currently packed with trains every hour, it's obvious that the building of HS2 will require platform increases. But will it be a simple upgrade where the station will be extended while normal operations continue, or will the station shut and receive a full or even partial rebuild?

Personally I would hope that they did away with that 1960s trainshed design and tried to rebuild the station like it used to be but fit for the modern day passenger numbers. In particular, the Grand Hall and the Euston Arch (I call it the St. Pancras treatment). But that's just my preference, though I would like it if you gave your own opinion.

Simple question and easy thread really, but I imagine some might diverge and talk about the old Euston design returning. Leave your answers (or your opinions) below. Thanks.
 
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edwin_m

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Details are probably lurking somewhere on the HS2 website, but as far as I recall Phase 1 puts new platforms beyond the western boundary (in the area of the Ibis and Thistle hotels) and gets rid of a couple of the less-used platforms at that side of the station. After the Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow fast trains transfer to HS2 using these platforms, Phase 2 then re-models more of the western platforms ready for the full HS2 service.

HS2 are very careful not to take things onto their budget that are not part of the core scheme, so it's very unlikely they are planning to pay for any improvements to the remaining part of the station (although I think they are paying for an underground passage to Euston Square station). It's possible that some may happen paid for by other sources.
 

Bald Rick

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The current proposals are all here https://hs2ineuston.commonplace.is

Essentially, a new station is bolted on to the west side, and about a third of the existing station is then rebuilt to match.

There is a seperate, and as yet unfunded, proposal to rebuild the rest of the station. Design not confirmed.
 

GRALISTAIR

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-- or will the station shut and receive a full or even partial rebuild?.

I suppose with enough advance notice you could close over a holiday period - but that really would be a nightmare. If you closed for say the full month of August and ran extra services out of Marylebone, KX, St Pan - maybe doable. I would think they would keep partially open at least.
 

Bald Rick

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I suppose with enough advance notice you could close over a holiday period - but that really would be a nightmare. If you closed for say the full month of August and ran extra services out of Marylebone, KX, St Pan - maybe doable. I would think they would keep partially open at least.

It would be unlikely to close for any significant length of time. Kings Cross, Birmingham New Street, St Pancras, London Bridge - all have been almost completely rebuilt with total closures measured in single digit days. The last time all the tracks / signalling was done at Euston (1998-2000), the longest all lines closure was 11 hours.
 

GRALISTAIR

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It would be unlikely to close for any significant length of time. Kings Cross, Birmingham New Street, St Pancras, London Bridge - all have been almost completely rebuilt with total closures measured in single digit days. The last time all the tracks / signalling was done at Euston (1998-2000), the longest all lines closure was 11 hours.

Weather permitting then - Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Years Day. Very doable.
 

The Planner

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Lots of half station blocks and Christmas, Easter and bank holidays. Id gamble on a Christmas to New Year block too.
 

Bald Rick

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Getting Hampstead Road bridge down will be a challenge, not least as it is a major highway, and therefore staged closure will be difficult. Likely to be done in one hit I'd have thought. Christmas / NY seems ideal.
 

Tobbes

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+1 for the return of the Euston Arch from me, though...
 

Up_Tilt_390

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To what purpose though?

If anything to undo the historical architectural vandalism that was done to Euston when the Arch was demolished. It might seem like an argument based more on feelings than what's practical, but sometimes people get the wrong impressions about a place they've never been before. London Euston as it is now is an uninspiring 1960s trainshed (the concourse isn't bad I'll admit), and if I personally had never been to London before and went now, I wouldn't get the best impressions if the current station was the first thing I saw.

Meanwhile the Arch was a historical symbol being part of the first railway terminus in London, and to have demolished it was erasing part of history. Not only that, but it was quite a beautiful piece of Victorian engineering, and one time I heard about this poll that said most people prefer historical architecture to modern (to be taken with a pinch of salt). Regardless, I'd get a much better impression of London if I arrived and saw something like that. If Euston was going to get a rebuild for the 21st century, then I wouldn't turn down the chance to restore Euston to it's former glory. After all, it happened with St. Pancras, but it's probably just wishful thinking on my half.
 

edwin_m

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I'd agree that the Arch shouldn't have been demolished, and as most major public buildings include some sort of "public art" it would be a good idea to create a replica. Although Wikipedia reports that the pieces found in the bottom of the river Lea are re-useable I suspect that would be difficult in practice.
 

Bertie the bus

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If anything to undo the historical architectural vandalism that was done to Euston when the Arch was demolished. It might seem like an argument based more on feelings than what's practical, but sometimes people get the wrong impressions about a place they've never been before. London Euston as it is now is an uninspiring 1960s trainshed (the concourse isn't bad I'll admit), and if I personally had never been to London before and went now, I wouldn't get the best impressions if the current station was the first thing I saw.

I would suggest the 14 drug addicts begging for money in the 5 minutes people stopped to look at it wouldn’t give the greatest impression of London. The best thing to do around Euston is get a train, tube or bus to somewhere else as quickly as possible.
 

Bletchleyite

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I would suggest the 14 drug addicts begging for money in the 5 minutes people stopped to look at it wouldn’t give the greatest impression of London. The best thing to do around Euston is get a train, tube or bus to somewhere else as quickly as possible.

While it can be a little rough, it's nowhere near as scabby as the area around Kings Cross, and is probably roughly the same as that around Paddington.
 

Andrew1395

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Having worked at the "new" Euston for many years, and have used it as a commuter for more than 35 years, I have seen many changes and have an opinion of the strengths and weaknesses of the way the station works. Of course the whole interchange is dealing with more people than envisaged when designed or indeed when station trading driven changes made. So there should be a significant review of transitional improvements that can be put in place prior to the opening of HS2. Especially as commuting growth continues a pace. An immediate change to improve passenger egress would be to reinstate the passenger ramp to platforms 10/11. The shops and LM booking office offer nothing that can not be provided elsewhere within the station. Any changes in advance of the new HS2 extension should focus on new access to Euston underground station from the bus interchange in Euston Square and a sub surface pedestrian connection to Euston Square ( a station that has constricted pedestrian access in the peaks). Dispersal of people from the extremities, platforms 1-3 and 16-18 is poor especially the latter, along narrow corridor like spaces need addressing, as does the placing of facilities like the toilets. The current location creates conflicting flows of people crossing the now far busier concourse. Having the main information board where a build up of people waiting for platforms in the evening peak in effect blocks the pedestrian routes to the busiest platform ramps, disrupts the smooth movement of people. Exploiting the under used spaces in the basement areas and using the old parcels deck as the primary gateway for taxis and cars would take pressure away from the multilayered and awkward current car park and taxi rank.
 

Andrew1395

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Reinstate the ramp? Not sure what you mean, isn't the present 8-11 ramp the same width as the others?

Until they built shop units on one side of it in 1989, it was twice the current width. With the subway entrance to the underground station in the middle. The central area of this ramp (width of the underground entrance) originally also had luggage lockers. You can still see the base of the locker rows if you look at the shop entrances. Looks like tiled wedges projecting out of the shops. With its own solari board above the gate line, platforms 8-11 had their own mini concourse, with the gateline further back by the stops. To go from platform 8 or 9 to 10/11 you had to go back through the gate line. The current pushed forward gateline has reduced the circulation/ dispersal area in front of the underground entrance, but has the advantage that you can move easily between the two islands. Probably ok with 1989s usage, but insufficient space now. As a result overcrowding ( at times of disruption) means that they now have to actively crowd control access to 8-11. Often holding people on the main concourse. The reconfiguration of 8-11 was driven by Network Southeast who at the time wanted extra share of station trading revenue and reduced allocation of maintenance costs. At the time the 50% reduction in pedestrian egress created a fire evacuation concern. So the remaining ramp space has smoke dispersal fans above it. Now reinstating the ramp and foregoing the shopping experience feels like a better solution for passengers.
 

Andrew1395

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They have started the process of clearing the site to the West of Euston. The thistle (Kennedy) hotel, ibis hotel, walkden house and other buildings closed and hoarded off ready for demolition. St James Gardens, the Temperance hospital and the trees along the now closed Cardington street are next to go.
 

edwin_m

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They have started the process of clearing the site to the West of Euston. The thistle (Kennedy) hotel, ibis hotel, walkden house and other buildings closed and hoarded off ready for demolition. St James Gardens, the Temperance hospital and the trees along the now closed Cardington street are next to go.
There's also the former Northern Charing Cross branch station used as a ventilation shaft (across Drummond Street from the Ibis). Presume this will go too and the shaft will emerge through the HS2 station somehow.
 
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Andrew1395

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True. It's also an emergency access in case of any need to get into the Euston northern line station. Tunnels still with their 1960s adverts pasted to the walls. The o,d collectors corner building also going. Not sure about the Exmouth Arms
 

yorksrob

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I would suggest the 14 drug addicts begging for money in the 5 minutes people stopped to look at it wouldn’t give the greatest impression of London. The best thing to do around Euston is get a train, tube or bus to somewhere else as quickly as possible.

Or sit in the Euston Tap for a while.
 

Class 170101

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They will need to something about the circulation of travellers at Euston. I thought I heard or read somewhere that Euston would be in trouble without Crossrail 2.
 

edwin_m

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They will need to something about the circulation of travellers at Euston. I thought I heard or read somewhere that Euston would be in trouble without Crossrail 2.
The position of TfL and the Mayor is that Euston with HS2 won't work without Crossrail 2 to disperse the passengers. With hindsight it's a shame Crossrail 1 didn't go via Euston.
 

NotATrainspott

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The position of TfL and the Mayor is that Euston with HS2 won't work without Crossrail 2 to disperse the passengers. With hindsight it's a shame Crossrail 1 didn't go via Euston.

What? Crossrail 1 never had to serve Euston. That's what Old Oak Common is for.
 

Bletchleyite

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What? Crossrail 1 never had to serve Euston. That's what Old Oak Common is for.

Old Oak Common is miles from the City.

TBH, I think it's an utter waste of space as a station, but even if I didn't think that nobody is going to change there to stand all the way to Bank any more than you get hordes alighting LM trains at Harrow and Wealdstone (you don't). They'll go into Euston.
 

Chester1

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The position of TfL and the Mayor is that Euston with HS2 won't work without Crossrail 2 to disperse the passengers. With hindsight it's a shame Crossrail 1 didn't go via Euston.

Its just an argument to obtain funding for Crossrail 2 or for alternative projects. 4tph (Tring stoppers) could be diverted from Euston onto Crossrail 1 but TfL don't want to pay £300m to link WCML and Crossrail. London Overground services will probably be diverted from Euston too. There is also Cross River Tram (dropped in 2007) and extending the DLR to Euston. Both could serve Euston, St Pancras and Kings Cross. HS2 helps Crossrail 2 business case but it does not make it neccessary.
 

Bletchleyite

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Its just an argument to obtain funding for Crossrail 2 or for alternative projects. 4tph (Tring stoppers) could be diverted from Euston onto Crossrail 1

But *nobody on the south WCML actually wants them to*.

Unlike Thameslink where all services to Bedford, Luton etc serve St Pancras, this would split the service. It would not be popular. We don't want it. Don't waste money on it.
 
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Chester1

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But *nobody on the south WCML actually wants them to*.

Unlike Thameslink where all services to Bedford, Luton etc serve St Pancras, this would split the service. It would not be popular. We don't want it.

I didn't say it was popular just that it is a very cheap option to free up capacity at Euston. The government seems to be happy to support Crossrail 2 as long as London pays for half of it up front and half from opperating surpless. I suspect the government will look at alternatives if it thinks it will need grants and not loans.
 
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