Will Euston get a HS2 Upgrade?

[Bletchleyite]

I didn't say it was popular just that it is a very cheap option to free up capacity at Euston. The government seems to be happy to support Crossrail 2 as long as London pays for half of it up front and half from opperating surpless. I suspect the government will look at alternatives if it thinks it will need grants and not loans.

They could start by not allowing the Open Access application to Blackpool to waste a platform once an hour.

 

[Chester1]

They could start by not allowing the Open Access application to Blackpool to waste a platform once an hour.

It would be 6 a day off peak. Whether it is a waste or not depends on loadings, personally I would like to see extra services between London and Crewe prior to 2026. I agree though the service if it runs may be unsustainable once HS2 phase 1 opens.

 

[Bletchleyite]

True, though it is unlikely to come close to competing with a 12-car peak Tring stopper for loadings.

If the WCML is that busy there is no case for any trains that are not full length or near it (min 8x20m/9x24m) running at any time. Short open-access trains are a waste of space.

 

[edwin_m]

What? Crossrail 1 never had to serve Euston. That's what Old Oak Common is for.

Leaving aside HS2, which hadn't been thought of at the time, Crossrail 1 at Euston/KX (as now proposed for Crossrail 2) would have given much better access from the Midlands and North to awkward destinations like Heathrow and Canary Wharf. After HS2, it would mean that business passengers from Canary Wharf didn't end up on peak Crossrail services out of Paddington.

 

[Class 170101]

They could start by not allowing the Open Access application to Blackpool to waste a platform once an hour.

Currently the operator only has contingent rights to Euston and will have to terminate at Queen's Park if there is no space at Euston.

 

[Class 170101]

Its just an argument to obtain funding for Crossrail 2 or for alternative projects. 4tph (Tring stoppers) could be diverted from Euston onto Crossrail 1 but TfL don't want to pay £300m to link WCML and Crossrail. London Overground services will probably be diverted from Euston too.

London Overground services have previously been diverted away from Euston when the line between Camden Road East Jn and Willesden Jn via Gospel Oak was closed (I think for Hampstead Heath Tunnel enlargement) the Watford DC service was merged with the Camden Road to Stratford service running via Primrose Hill. Now however with greater passenger volumes I don't think it would possible to divert services this way as capacity is constrained east of Camden Road and doing the merger as I mentioned above would leave Camden Road to Willesden Jn with four fewer trains trains per hour at peak times. I doubt the remain trains would cope with passenger loadings. The trains are already getting crowded as it is.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was also VERY unpopular with passengers - there were massive numbers of complaints. It won't happen.

 

[Chris125]

Its just an argument to obtain funding for Crossrail 2 or for alternative projects.

A silly argument but one I can't blame TfL for making - in reality the growth predicted for conventional rail/tube traffic at Euston far exceeds any impact from HS2, so CR2 will be required regardless.

 

[al green]

But *nobody on the south WCML actually wants them to*.

I'm not a big fan of it myself but there definitely are people in MK area who want it to happen.

 

[Ianno87]

I'm not a big fan of it myself but there definitely are people in MK area who want it to happen.

Crossrail to MK would be a bit like Crossrail to Reading. Looks great on paper and operationally, but the usefulness to those actually using it from MK is limited by the elongated journey time compared to an existing Pendolino service into Euston.

As Bletchleyite says, for stations Tring southwards, it would basically involve splitting the current Slow Line service in two, and quite a number of people would still genuinely want to get to Euston. Potentially trying to be Jack of all trades, but master of none.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. To me it would only be a benefit if the whole slow line service went that way, or if it was an additional service like a half hourly Watford shuttle totally separate from the rest and in addition to the present service level.

The fundamental issue with it is that unlike Thameslink at St Pancras, Crossrail neither serves nor goes anywhere near Euston.

 

[Andrew1395]

Cheaper to remove stuff like the London Overground DC service away from Euston. That gives you an extra platform. The sleepers are going to move to Kings Cross. The Tring services are fully integrated into the service pattern for commuter services from Northampton to Euston. If they wanted to free up capacity they could reduce the over provision of Birmingham pendolino services

 

[Chris125]

Crossrail to MK would be a bit like Crossrail to Reading. Looks great on paper and operationally, but the usefulness to those actually using it from MK is limited by the elongated journey time compared to an existing Pendolino service into Euston.

As Bletchleyite says, for stations Tring southwards, it would basically involve splitting the current Slow Line service in two, and quite a number of people would still genuinely want to get to Euston. Potentially trying to be Jack of all trades, but master of none.

I really can't see the problem, one of the key benefits of HS2 is that it should free up room for more commuter traffic from Milton Keynes on the fast lines - the end result would not be so different from the GWML post-Crossrail.

As for Euston itself I doubt direct Euston services on the slow lines would cease altogether, but a service via Old Oak Common, Central London and Canary Wharf would surely suit far more people.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don’t think many of us want it, we prefer civilised boarding at a terminus, and don’t want the service split between 2 London stations.

 

[Chester1]

I don’t think many of us want it, we prefer civilised boarding at a terminus, and don’t want the service split between 2 London stations.

Passenger preference won't be taken into account. Whether or not it happens will be decided by whether Euston can cope with demand from 2026. At an estimated £300m it is a cheap option.

 

[The Planner]

I would suggest Crossrail to the WCML is pretty much deceased.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would suggest Crossrail to the WCML is pretty much deceased.

Good.

 

[Andrew1395]

Euston to close this Easter and August bank holiday weekends for HS2 prep works. Maybe to complete demolish work?

 

[edwin_m]

Cardington Street is now walled off at its southern end, north side of Drummond Street and the Euston vehicle access near platform 17. The Ibis hotel is visible over the hoardings and apparently intact but is no longer open for business.

 

[Andrew1395]

Cardington Street is now walled off at its southern end, north side of Drummond Street and the Euston vehicle access near platform 17. The Ibis hotel is visible over the hoardings and apparently intact but is no longer open for business.

The Euston Thistle and Ibis hotels both closed ready for demolition. Most of the block to be demolished is vacant with the exception of the Bree Louise (Jolly Gardeners) which closes on the 28th January. I wonder what happens to the Euston parcel deck. Does that get demolished or repurposed?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Euston Thistle and Ibis hotels both closed ready for demolition. Most of the block to be demolished is vacant with the exception of the Bree Louise (Jolly Gardeners) which closes on the 28th January. I wonder what happens to the Euston parcel deck. Does that get demolished or repurposed?

Or just left abandoned? It would be nice to remove it and open the station out, but it would probably be hugely costly. I think one of the old designs involved turning it into an upper concourse with escalators down to the platforms but I think that's been descoped by now.

 

[edwin_m]

I would guess the parcel deck stays except for the bit of it that's above platforms 17 and 18 which are within the footprint of the HS2 Phase 1 station. That would mean losing the road vehicle ramp in the NW corner and the west side of what looks originally to have been a circulating road. The central area and the former BRUTE trolley ramp between P16 and P17 would stay at least until the start of the further expansion of the HS2 station for Phase 2.

 

[Andrew1395]

All the trees on one half of Euston Square gardens to be removed soon to make way for work compounds and a future taxi rank. Some must be over 100 years old. A tragedy they have to go having survived the Second World War and the rebuilding of Euston.

 

[Snapper]

True. It's also an emergency access in case of any need to get into the Euston northern line station. Tunnels still with their 1960s adverts pasted to the walls. The o,d collectors corner building also going. Not sure about the Exmouth Arms

The Exmouth Arms is staying. It's on the opposite side of the Street to the hs2 boundary.

 

[Busaholic]

All the trees on one half of Euston Square gardens to be removed soon to make way for work compounds and a future taxi rank. Some must be over 100 years old. A tragedy they have to go having survived the Second World War and the rebuilding of Euston.

Betjeman once again turns in his grave.

 

[DenmarkRail]

Massive shame about the ibis being knocked down. Always used it for toilet, phone charging and work etc... Good days

 

[edwin_m]

Massive shame about the ibis being knocked down. Always used it for toilet, phone charging and work etc... Good days

Also seemed to be one of the better places to stay in the Euston area. I was in there on 9/11 with a crowd of shocked tourists watching the news unfolding on TV.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also seemed to be one of the better places to stay in the Euston area.

A bit like Premier Inn within the UK, I find Ibis to be a fairly boring but very safe option when travelling internationally. You know what you'll get, it'll be decent and it won't be a rip-off.

 

[Andrew1395]

It was a massive shame when the Euston BRSA club was demolished to make way for the Ibis. The old Kennedy hotel (rebranded as the Euston Thistle) at 4pm on a weekday had a bar full very popular before all day opening laws for pubs. The Exmouth is not the place it was.

Massive shame about the ibis being knocked down. Always used it for toilet, phone charging and work etc... Good days

I noticed that the two black tower office blocks, Grant Thornton House and 1 Euston Square have both been emptied ready for demolition. I wonder if that is to happen this year too.