Will Labour scrap the £2 fare Cap? (now confirmed will rise to £3)

[Joe Paxton]

Great news that the cap is to continue, at least for another year. Ideally by then there'd be a long term proposition in terms of a bus fare cap / support.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Before the cap the single from Queensbury to Halifax, a distance of just over three miles, was £3.80.

So it's still a cap, even in urban areas.

Although a £2.00 single was available on First's app. They were inflating cash fares to encourage faster boarding methods.

 

[Man of Kent]

It's the same situation here on Merseyside (or rather Liverpool City Region), bus fares here are covered by a separate fare cap too.

No they are not. Liverpool City Region joined the national scheme in either January or April 2024. This is confirmed in a (longish) budget report published in February 2024 https://liverpoolcityregion-ca.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s71360/Merseytravel Budget 202425.pdf

of which the relevant bit states:

"5.3 The budget for Bus Services has been set lower than projected outturn due to non-
recurring costs include in 23/24 relating to the Adult Single Fare Cap Scheme, which will
not be required in 24/25 as the Combined Authority has now joined the National Scheme."

 

[Tetchytyke]

They were inflating cash fares to encourage faster boarding methods.

No they weren’t, they were rinsing their passengers. Especially as First’s app was and is a pile of hot garbage and paying contactless was usually quicker than trying to get the app to scan.

 

[Magdalia]

It was introduced in 2022. I very much doubt they were thinking that far ahead.

originally it was supposed to be a 3 month trial

In the link, Grant Chapps stated that the cost was £60,000,000 - presumably for a year.

They weren't thinking that far ahead. I think that the £60 million is the cost of the 3 month trial.

More recently the annual cost has been quoted at £350m.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It's interesting that Keir Starmer said (along the lines of) the fare cap being particularly important for those in rural areas who rely on public transport. He's missed the point there, what people in rural areas need is more buses, not a fare cap.

The announcement is more about the additional funding for bus services of 925m than the support cost for £3 fare which is only 161m

single bus fares to be capped at £3 until the end of 2025, ensuring services remain affordable and supporting travel in rural areas and towns
fare cap extension comes on top of nearly £925 million invested to deliver high quality services and protect vital bus routes up and down the country
part of government plans to end the postcode lottery of bus services, ensure access to opportunities and deliver growth

 

[Andy Pacer]

The announcement is more about the additional funding for bus services of 925m than the support cost for £3 fare which is only 161m

Indeed. I assume you've also listened to his speech? My point was his comment on rural services.

 

[Ghostbus]

So Starmer has now made it £1.20 more expensive for a single return trip anywhere, for any purpose, in my town. People who don't pay any tax, have now been taxed on something that is a basic necessity of life. This is supposedly because the £2 fare is bad value for taxpayers?

 

[Trainman40083]

AIUI the current system works by the government offering the operator a lump sum based on what they believe the loss in revenue from only being able to collect the capped fare versus the usual fare is. Presumably it would be the DfT doing the calculation again but substituting £3 for £2.

That suggests that the Government saves about 50% of their sum, and the bus company is no better off....Of course, could indeed be worse off, if less people choose to travel by bus.

 

[yorksrob]

Did the tories bring in the bus cap to cause problems for labour? When they introduced it last year they would have known they were going to lose the election and it would make labour unpopular if they had to get rid of it.

Much as I dislike the Tories for various reasons, I do think the £2 scheme was a genuine cost of living measure.

I think a rise to £2.50 would have seemed less precipitous.

 

[Ken H]

What about very short rides. 2-3 stops. Will they be £3 or less? This has never been clear with the £2 scheme.

 

[Starmill]

It's a cap. Fares won't cost more than £3 instead of not costing more than £2. Some for very short trips might cost less - certainly it won't be a de-facto flat fare any more.

The problem is the places that still had single fares under £2 often brought them up when the £2 cap came in. Some element of this could be expected again.

Much as I dislike the Tories for various reasons, I do think the £2 scheme was a genuine cost of living measure.

I think a rise to £2.50 would have seemed less precipitous.

It's very poor that a Tory government thought several hundred million pounds in extra annual bus subsidy was good value but a Labour one is apparently thinking it won't be. What's the 2026 subsidy going to look like? Buses are great value for money.

More recently the annual cost has been quoted at £350m

Even at £500 million it's a bargain imo.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Much as I dislike the Tories for various reasons, I do think the £2 scheme was a genuine cost of living measure.

I think a rise to £2.50 would have seemed less precipitous.

£2 is too cheap for £10+ journeys but my local short route will now be £3 for just over a mile. Might as well go back to the car although will do the right thing and still use the bus at times.

 

[Goldfish62]

£2 is too cheap for £10+ journeys but my local short route will now be £3 for just over a mile. Might as well go back to the car although will do the right thing and still use the bus at times.

What would it have been without the fare cap? Obviously over £3 from what you're saying.

The CPT seems reasonably content:

Confederation of Passenger Transport (CPT) statement on the government’s decision to raise the bus fare cap to £3 | CPT

www.cpt-uk.org

“We are pleased that the government has taken steps to implement a managed exit from the £2 fare cap in line with our proposals.

 

[johncrossley]

They could have taken the opportunity to make it a one hour ticket which would soften the blow of the price increase.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

What would it have been without the fare cap? Obviously over £3 from what you're saying.

The CPT seems reasonably content:

Confederation of Passenger Transport (CPT) statement on the government’s decision to raise the bus fare cap to £3 | CPT

www.cpt-uk.org

The point being is that majority of car journeys are short and contribute to considerably congestion in most towns across UK so having a competitive fare for short journeys will do more for modal shift than over long journeys.

 

[DDB]

It will.be interesting to see what the bus companies do and what they decide to push in their publicity. I assume as this was one of the options widely predicted as a possible outcome they will have already thought about it.

They might well start pushing short hop fares and day tickets but I don't know how the subsidy works behind the scenes and whether that influences bus company behaviour.

 

[Stan Drews]

I can’t believe how many contributors are getting confused between a fare cap and a flat fare. The fact that the CAP is increasing to £3 does NOT mean all single fares will increase from £2 to £3.
Take somewhere like Reading where I believe they had a flat fare of £2.30 prior to the £2 cap being introduced. That would almost certainly have been increased since then (if cap hadn’t been introduced), but quite possibly to maybe £2.50 or maybe a little more if a second increase had come in. Therefore, when the cap increases to £3 it’s quite possible that their flat fare in Reading will be lower than that.

 

[dk1]

I can’t believe how many contributors are getting confused between a fare cap and a flat fare. The fact that the CAP is increasing to £3 does NOT mean all single fares will increase from £2 to £3.
Take somewhere like Reading where I believe they had a flat fare of £2.30 prior to the £2 cap being introduced. That would almost certainly have been increased since then (if cap hadn’t been introduced), but quite possibly to maybe £2.50 or maybe a little more if a second increase had come in. Therefore, when the cap increases to £3 it’s quite possible that their flat fare in Reading will be lower than that.

Yes Great Yarmouth has for some reason been charging £1.50 for a good while now on services operating wholly within the borough.

 

[Kite159]

It's interesting that Keir Starmer said (along the lines of) the fare cap being particularly important for those in rural areas who rely on public transport. He's missed the point there, what people in rural areas need is more buses, not a fare cap.

Agreed, having a max of £3 fare for the bus is one thing, only if the bus is a viable option for people living in rural areas whom might get a token handful of buses a day which are of little use for workers (and are designed to take OAPs to town for shopping).

------

In my eyes, what needs promoting more are the range of the bus area tickets available, maybe a website like RailRover.org but designed for all those various bus area products which can be hard to find information about. I.e. the Oxford Day Ranger, the Wiltshire Bus Day Ranger & the Solent Go. Products which some bus companies don't want to advertise as they would rather shift one of their own day products as they keep all the revenue/

 

[CaptainHaddock]

£2 is too cheap for £10+ journeys but my local short route will now be £3 for just over a mile. Might as well go back to the car although will do the right thing and still use the bus at times.

Indeed. If you work a five day week and commute by bus Labour have just put up your commuting costs by £10 a week. So much for not putting taxes up for working people.

 

[DDB]

To add to people's examples of fares that will be less than the new cap so people won't see a rise up to £3 especially as most people will be making 2 trips in a day (there and back).
I've just picked up the Nottingham City Transport fares guide (effective 1st Sept 24).
There are already short hop fares of £1.70.
The all day ticket for the city zone which is a big zone is £5.30 for adults so anyone making a trip there and back will see only a rise from £4 to £5.30
There are further reductions for groups and students etc.
An all operator including trams and trains robinhood day ticket is only £6.40 and £5.20 for students and £4.10 under 19. So under two bus fares under the new cap for many.
Even the long distance fares £7.80 a day so not much of a further jump in 2026 and £6 for students.
Weekly or longer season tickets further reduce it. E.g. weekly city zone is £22. 5 days of 2 singles a day are currently £20 so anyone doing that will only see a rise of £2 a week under the new cap and students again are already under that cap.

 

[johncrossley]

Indeed. If you work a five day week and commute by bus Labour have just put up your commuting costs by £10 a week. So much for not putting taxes up for working people.

There will often be a weekly ticket available for less than £30.

 

[DDB]

Indeed. If you work a five day week and commute by bus Labour have just put up your commuting costs by £10 a week. So much for not putting taxes up for working people.

The cap was ending, now it isn't and as lots of people have posted in many places it won't be that much as fares especially with season tickets aren't actually £3.

 

[Goldfish62]

S

The point being is that majority of car journeys are short and contribute to considerably congestion in most towns across UK so having a competitive fare for short journeys will do more for modal shift than over long journeys.

It's a fare cap - it doesn't mean that the minimum fare has to be £3!

There are plenty of examples right now where short hop fares are less than the £2 fare cap.

And of course there are plenty of operators that have never participated in the fare cap scheme.

 

[AM9]

Indeed. If you work a five day week and commute by bus Labour have just put up your commuting costs by £10 a week. So much for not putting taxes up for working people.

Bus fares are not "taxes".

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Bus fares are not "taxes".

I was referring to the Lib Dems response to Starmer's announcement.

'Bus tax' as fares to rise from £2 to £3 in Autumn Budget

The bus fare cap in England will rise from £2 to £3 at the end of this year, Keir Starmer has said, as Rachel Reeves prepares to raid transport funding in this week’s budget.

uk.news.yahoo.com

The bus fare cap will go up from £2 to £3 at the end of this year, Keir Starmer has announced today (Monday, October 28), ahead of the autumn budget.

The Prime Minister told crowds in Birmingham that funding for the £2 cap on fares in England would run out at the end of 2024.

 

[Merle Haggard]

They weren't thinking that far ahead. I think that the £60 million is the cost of the 3 month trial.

More recently the annual cost has been quoted at £350m.

Thanks, £350m does seem more a realistic estimate.

 

[Richard Scott]

Thanks, £350m does seem more a realistic estimate.

Still small fry in the grand scheme of things. I appreciate lots of small subsidies across many areas of public spending soon add up to a much larger amount.
But as far as transport concerned this isn't a huge amount. Does encourage increased bus usage, if route is frequent. My usual reason for driving is bus isn't frequent enough but that's another issue and appreciate buses don't just run for me!!

 

[busspotter1]

Indeed. If you work a five day week and commute by bus Labour have just put up your commuting costs by £10 a week. So much for not putting taxes up for working people.

Yup, screwing people once again.