Will m-Tickets be the future of travel?

[matty91]

First Bus in my local area are putting up their fares, but only to those who pay by cash on the bus.

If you use the m-Tickets app, the fares will be cheaper.

For example, a 0-3 mile single fare journey on the app costs £1.50, but on the bus, this will set you back £2.

A day ticket is set to increase to £4.50 on the bus, but on the app, it will remain at £4.

Do you think that cash/tickets on buses will disappear completely? Will this soon be the case for train travel?

 

[ooo]

From what I've seen in Bristol where tickets are more expensive in Cash than Mtickets they have been very popular and it's not rare for cash payers to be outnumbered by m ticket users which has sped up some buses in my experience.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think *cash* needs to disappear off buses, but contactless/Apple/Android Pay is a better solution than fiddly apps.

Edit: Actually, I'd be happy for cash to disappear completely from society, not just from buses.

 

[radamfi]

With the First Bristol app, is it clear what single ticket is required for your journey? Under 3 miles, 3-6 miles etc.?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Until you can buy individual single tickets electronically, either by an app or contactless etc (rather than a group of 5 singles, which is the case in the Bristol area atm), then cash is not going anywhere.

 

[pemma]

It's not unknown for paying using a phone to incur a higher charge. Before GHA Coaches collapsed they added a 50p 'convenience fee' charge to season tickets purchased using the mobile app. Cheshire East council have also done something similar for paying for car parking using a mobile. However, it should be noted I have just given the name of a bus operator which failed and a very poorly managed local authority.

 

[pemma]

I think *cash* needs to disappear off buses, but contactless/Apple/Android Pay is a better solution than fiddly apps.

In my area we have a pre-paid Cheshire Travelcard which hardly anyone accepts anymore. D&G Bus did used to accept it but not on Cheshire services operated from their Stoke depot. If they instead looked at accepting contactless payments it wouldn't matter which depot operates which route and if the operator moves buses between depots they wouldn't need to change the ticket machines.

 

[radamfi]

Until you can buy individual single tickets electronically, either by an app or contactless etc (rather than a group of 5 singles, which is the case in the Bristol area atm), then cash is not going anywhere.

A few companies now do 60 minute app tickets, such as Metrobus and Brighton & Hove at lower price than most cash singles.

Obviously, as usual, the best solutions are seen abroad. In Germany, Sweden and Denmark and probably other places, you can get a single on your phone covering the whole trip involving changes on buses and trains.

 

[ooo]

Although contactless should speed up bus waiting times. If it still requires a ticket to be chosen and printed this does take time whereas showing a mobile ticket takes almost no time. In Bristol first made a video showing how much longer paying in cash takes even with exact fares compared to M tickets which showed just how slow it is to fill a full bus. Of course as it was promotional it may have been exaggerated a little but it clearly showed the point of time saving.


EDIT: I've found the video

 

[Busaholic]

Although contactless should speed up bus waiting times. If it still requires a ticket to be chosen and printed this does take time whereas showing a mobile ticket takes almost no time. In Bristol first made a video showing how much longer paying in cash takes even with exact fares compared to M tickets which showed just how slow it is to fill a full bus. Of course as it was promotional it may have been exaggerated a little but it clearly showed the point of time saving.


EDIT: I've found the video

If it takes over ten minutes to take all the cash fares at one stop without anyone f"rting about or throwing a hissy fit then something's very wrong with the operation: maybe explains why so many with a choice still use cars in Bristol. In reality, of course, for most of the day and on most routes there'd be a good proportion of free concessionary travel which this 'experiment' ignores.

 

[radamfi]

In Bristol first made a video showing how much longer paying in cash takes even with exact fares compared to M tickets which showed just how slow it is to fill a full bus.

So if they have known that cash is slow, why haven't they done anything about it until now? It doesn't require mobile tickets, contactless or smartcards, although they are nice to haves. Operators across the world have long managed to avoid their buses getting delayed by drivers wasting time issuing tickets without modern technology.

 

[ooo]

So if they have known that cash is slow, why haven't they done anything about it until now? It doesn't require mobile tickets, contactless or smartcards, although they are nice to haves. Operators across the world have long managed to avoid their buses getting delayed by drivers wasting time issuing tickets without modern technology.

What is this solution that is used elsewhere?

 

[radamfi]

What is this solution that is used elsewhere?

There are numerous methods employed. Some places use strips of paper where you or the driver stamp the required number of strips on boarding. Some places use ticket machines at the bus stop or inside the bus. Until a few years ago, Denmark used paper cards where you stick the card into a machine, clipping it and stamping it. This same technology was used in Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire but was abandoned around 1990 citing technical problems. That was nonsense as Denmark managed to use it for another 25 years. Most of Belgium outside Brussels still use old machines where you stick the card into the machine, which stamps it and it pops out again.

 

[johntea]

Arriva / Transdev have mobile ticketing apps but you can't buy single/return tickets on them as such, just day/week/month offerings.

Another point is their machines for actually reading the chips inside MCard / pass seem quite slow at actually reading - I would compare it a little to TouchID on the iPhone on my iPhone 6 it is quite slow to accept my fingerprint but they improved the technology in the 6S onwards I believe so is virtually instant on those!

 

[Bletchleyite]

First's experiment cunningly avoids a proper implementation of contactless, as in touch-on touch-off.

 

[PeterC]

Why would I want to download a special app every time a visited a new city when I already carry a universal medium of exchange?

 

[WelshBluebird]

What is this solution that is used elsewhere?

It isn't something I'd want to see here - but Cardiff bus have a correct change only policy where the coins are dumped straight into the machine and the drivers never handle any cash themselves. Certainly does speed it up a lot, but obviously is pretty inconvenient for people.

The better solution is something like in London where some kind of touch card or contactless bank card can be used, and you get away from paper tickets altogether.

As I said earlier though, First should at the very least offer individual single tickets through their touch card and app - it is a total joke that they do not.

 

[route101]

With First Glasgow they have just introduced contactless , you still have to ask driver for fare so not really any faster than cash . With M tickets you scan the QR Code on the ticket machine.
Ive used the M tickets app and for some reason it would load really slowly .

 

[radamfi]

It isn't something I'd want to see here - but Cardiff bus have a correct change only policy where the coins are dumped straight into the machine and the drivers never handle any cash themselves. Certainly does speed it up a lot, but obviously is pretty inconvenient for people.

It's crazy that when there are other low-tech ticketing systems to choose from (see above), the only alternative to paying the driver in cash that British operators can think of is the exact fare machine. It saves the change giving but still requires the driver to count the money and issue a ticket.

 

[jon0844]

With First Glasgow they have just introduced contactless , you still have to ask driver for fare so not really any faster than cash . With M tickets you scan the QR Code on the ticket machine.
Ive used the M tickets app and for some reason it would load really slowly .

If there were decent mobile apps that let you buy multiple tickets (i.e. one app to pay for you, partner, kids, friends etc) then show a single QR/Aztec code or whatever, fine, but I can only use one ticket at a time - and when a ticket is in use, I can't buy/activate another. So unless everyone with me has the app, an account and has paid for a ticket (and you can't just buy one ticket, you must buy a minimum of five - valid for three or six months) then it's a no-go.

Oh and even after some years, most routes have no m-tickets and the only way to travel is to buy a day ticket. A bit overkill for a single journey to town/train station (£1.40) or even a return (2xsingles).

The only upside is that the ticket you buy is valid for 60 minutes and can be used again, even though that's not advertised by the bus company. I expect you're not therefore supposed to do it, but it clearly says it's valid for an hour so that's what I've used it as, allowing another journey (onwards, or back home) within that time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's crazy that when there are other low-tech ticketing systems to choose from (see above), the only alternative to paying the driver in cash that British operators can think of is the exact fare machine. It saves the change giving but still requires the driver to count the money and issue a ticket.

It's because of the rampant "not invented here" conservatism in the industry that it seems to have near enough no interest whatsoever in doing things that would make its service more attractive and save money by speeding up buses and so reducing PVRs. (Peak Vehicle Requirements)

I have never known an industry that was so obsessed with dogmatically managing decline and running itself into the ground while ignoring the vastly superior methods of operation used in most other countries of the world.

 

[fowler9]

The smart cards issued to pensioners along with peoples Walrus cards on Merseyside seem to take a lot longer to use than a card you can just show the driver.

 

[ooo]

First now allow you to send child tickets from one phone to another which are allows parents to buy the ticket on their phones and not have to set up card details etc on their child's phone

 

[Bletchleyite]

The smart cards issued to pensioners along with peoples Walrus cards on Merseyside seem to take a lot longer to use than a card you can just show the driver.

ITSO does seem slow compared with Oyster, yes.

 

[jon0844]

First now allow you to send child tickets from one phone to another which are allows parents to buy the ticket on their phones and not have to set up card details etc on their child's phone

That's a start. I presume they aren't using the awful m-ticketing software from corethree.

 

[ooo]

That's a start. I presume they aren't using the awful m-ticketing software from corethree.

I think that there m ticket app is made by Corethree.

EDIT: http://www.corethree.net/Home/Index...uccessful-partnership-with-contract-extension

One positive about the First App is that they just have one for all their UK bus companies meaning you don't have to install a different app in different areas unlike Go Ahead who seem to have one app for each company.

 

[radamfi]

Many, if not all, of the transport associations (like PTEs) in Germany have their own app. However, the DB app also offer tickets in many of the different areas so it is likely you can get all the local and long distance travel tickets you need (for example a single in Dusseldorf, a train ticket from Dusseldorf to Berlin and a day ticket in Berlin) from the DB app.

In the DB app, you simply put in the "from" and "to" and it gives you a list of tickets valid for that journey. The origin and destination can be typed in or selected by using the map.

So there's no reason why bus companies in Britain can't offer singles/day tickets in the same way. The app should be able to work out the fare between any two points. You shouldn't need to know the fare in advance.

 

[jon0844]

Not knowing the fare must be an even bigger reason for people not attempting to use a bus, let alone method of payment.

Flat rate fares help here, but our local operator only uses a flat rate fare in one location. Routes going beyond use fare stages, which is understandable for very long distances, but don't publish fares anywhere.

 

[ooo]

Not knowing the fare must be an even bigger reason for people not attempting to use a bus, let alone method of payment.

Flat rate fares help here, but our local operator only uses a flat rate fare in one location. Routes going beyond use fare stages, which is understandable for very long distances, but don't publish fares anywhere.

Solving this is definitely the main strength of the new Stagecoach website as the journey planner gives all the fares for a particular journey.

 

[jon0844]

Solving this is definitely the main strength of the new Stagecoach website as the journey planner gives all the fares for a particular journey.

You couldn't imagine the railway not allowing you to check fares. Having published fares should be a requirement to operate a bus service IMO.