Will Mallard ever steam again?

[Bittern]

Just watched a video on youTube of all the remaining A4s together, with Sir Nigel Gresley and Bittern whistling as Union of South Africa passes by with The Coronation doing the same. Mallard, while present, remained silent.

Now, this was the first time she'd been outside the museum since 1988, and this is the fastest Steam Locomotive in the world. Is there any plans to perhaps restore her to power in the future? It would certianly be fitting if she did a run on the 100th anniversary of her record-breaking run.

 

[Spartacus]

With the last and current management of the NRM I think it's very unlikely for the forseeable future. A great shame in my opinion. When I pressed the NRM for a reason a couple of years ago it was explained that if it was damaged all they'd have left would be 100 tons of metal that people could only look at. "Just like what's there now?" I asked, and only got a confused look back.

 

[Daimler]

With the last and current management of the NRM I think it's very unlikely for the forseeable future. A great shame in my opinion. When I pressed the NRM for a reason a couple of years ago it was explained that if it was damaged all they'd have left would be 100 tons of metal that people could only look at. "Just like what's there now?" I asked, and only got a confused look back.

The trouble is, that's not the only reason - the NRM has to tread a fine line between conservation and restoration. To restore Mallard to a state where it would be fit to run would mean effectively diminishing its status as a historical artefact - once you've replaced this, that, and the other, is the locomotive still the 1938 record breaker, or is it something that looks very much like that engine? It's a bit of a 'Trigger's broom' type argument, I guess - as a museum, the NRM has a responsibility to conserve historical artefacts for future generations. Is restoring a locomotive (by replacing worn-out parts) really doing this, or is it destroying the historical value of the artefact in question?

Of course, one could argue that Mallard has been overhauled on various occasions since 1938 anyway, so it's no longer original regardless. But still, the more times a locomotive is overhauled, the fewer original parts remain, and therefore the less 'historical' some might argue it is - it's estimated that only 3% of the parts on Flying Scotsman date from when the engine was built!

I should perhaps point out that I personally think every loco in the national collection - including Lode Star - should be overhauled and in service!

 

[mumrar]

I don't think that it should be restored at great cost to mainline or even preserved line use. I also don't think they should have done so with Flying Scotsman, which the latest overhaul costs now exceed the total build from scratch for Tornado . Both are world famous for their respective exploits, and these should be celebrated by a museum of the NRMs importance. But where as enthusiasts who see them know most of the story, and have seen them before, Joe Public who travels from America or wherever and wants to see it will think 'I'll go to the National Railway Museum' to be told FS is out on a Cathedrals Express at Bath! The mystique and prestige of these two locos is guarenteed. Visiting tourists getting to see FS at our premier railway heritage site?? Currently it's in (expensive) pieces, then it'll be shipped around the country doing what most who visit heritage lines etc. knew it could do already. As for people going 'back home' with stories of the great Flying Scotsman or Mallard from the NRM, "Sorry son, it wasn't there, it was doing a dining train in London", it will be a farce

 

[theblackwatch]

With the last and current management of the NRM I think it's very unlikely for the forseeable future. A great shame in my opinion. When I pressed the NRM for a reason a couple of years ago it was explained that if it was damaged all they'd have left would be 100 tons of metal that people could only look at. "Just like what's there now?" I asked, and only got a confused look back.

A strange argument for not restoring it by whoever you spoke to at the NRM. My response to that would have been "Perhaps you'd better not restore Flying Scotsman either in case that gets damaged too".

 

[SouthEastern-465]

The trouble is, that's not the only reason - the NRM has to tread a fine line between conservation and restoration. To restore Mallard to a state where it would be fit to run would mean effectively diminishing its status as a historical artefact - once you've replaced this, that, and the other, is the locomotive still the 1938 record breaker, or is it something that looks very much like that engine? It's a bit of a 'Trigger's broom' type argument, I guess - as a museum, the NRM has a responsibility to conserve historical artefacts for future generations. Is restoring a locomotive (by replacing worn-out parts) really doing this, or is it destroying the historical value of the artefact in question?

Of course, one could argue that Mallard has been overhauled on various occasions since 1938 anyway, so it's no longer original regardless. But still, the more times a locomotive is overhauled, the fewer original parts remain, and therefore the less 'historical' some might argue it is - it's estimated that only 3% of the parts on Flying Scotsman date from when the engine was built!

I should perhaps point out that I personally think every loco in the national collection - including Lode Star - should be overhauled and in service!

Reading this you have changed my opinion.

I would have to agree with this now that its a historical thing and is unique in its own way being original overhauling it would just spoil its historical factors.

 

[matt]

Plus the fact there already three other A4s on the mainline and preserved lines.

 

[50041]

Mallard - No because to do so would render it a pastiche on its former self.
Flying Cashcow - No (for the very same reasons above - 3% original now?).

55002 - I'd probably say yes since Deltics by their very nature would have had a good deal of their components replaced and/or swapped across the fleet.

http://class50.zenfolio.com/p15788059/e3be17e87

 

[Spartacus]

The truth is that steam loco parts were designed to be no less interchangeable within their class, and to a certain amount between similar classes than diesels such as 55s and 37s for the same reason, reducing the amount of time locos were in the works.

No matter how many boilers, cylinders and rebuilds they have Mallard & Flying Scotsman and any other loco will still be that loco, just as our bodies constantly rebuild themselves.

 

[Moodster020]

No matter how many boilers, cylinders and rebuilds they have Mallard & Flying Scotsman and any other loco will still be that loco, just as our bodies constantly rebuild themselves.

good way of putting it.
You are still you,. yet the atoms that makeup all of your body are completely different to those of 10 years ago.

 

[Menace Dennis]

I was actually at the re-steaming of Mallard at the NRM and much to my sheer delight, many years ago, being as it is My favourite loco of all time having first seen the Beauty in Clapham Museum way back in the 1950's and falling 'In Love' with such a Magnificent machine and to the disbelief of others in that it WAS there at the time. I knew nothing of the world record at the time, but just Loved it there & then.

I do now agree with the majority, that to replace many of the parts, does not make it the original record holder as such.

 

[royaloak]

How many times was Mallard overhauled in LNER/ BR service, how much of the "original" loco is left?

 

[Spartacus]

Unless it can steam there'll always be something missing. Just a hulk of metal instead of a true locomotive.

 

[Moodster020]

Unless it can steam there'll always be something missing. Just a hulk of metal instead of a true locomotive.

Agreed!

 

[Bish Boy]

There is no point to it if its not able to steam. Mallard is one of the pinnacles of british engineering it should be a showcase not a static model.

 

[TGVDUDE]

as already stated, Mallard has already been overhaunled under LNER/BR and other owners if i'm not mistaken so, barley any of the original stands anyway, so why not overhaul her? if they overhaul her and as stated earlier in the thread, and some tourists come from abroad expecting to see Mallard but it's on a Cathedrals Express, The tourists could always look on the website for dates that she is at the NRM, if they don't have internet, phone? lol i don't see the point in something that can steam, not steaming, it seems a waste

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

NRM have a very strange attitude to what locomotives get overhauled and what dont. For example, Caerphilly Castle supposedly will never steam again, because she is an example of Swindon building practice (Ie they were the last to restore here before she went in the Science Museum). But NRM already have that with Lode Star, which also was restored at the same time. Additionally STEAM also have the last surviving Dean goods, which I also believe was rebuilt by them at the same time, and is also an example of Swindon Building practice. It also doesn't explain why Evening Star doesnt get restored to running condition, since it was already restored by Crewe in the 1960s, and restored again to run in the 1980s. Then there is King George V, which was already running in the 1970s through to the mid 80s, so clearly no problem there either.

Of all of their collection, I think Mallard clearly deserves to run again. But it certainly is odd that with next year the GWR 175 coming up, no considering has been made to running any of these again. Im sure all of us would like to see Flying Scotsman run again, but is she really any more significant than Mallard, King George V or Caerphilly Castle?
Very Sad.

 

[34002salisbury]

i think they want to keep it in the museum as it attracts fans to it
many NRM locos should be restored i would even like to see 6229 working again along side 4468. It will be 75 years since her run in 2013 and i think they should restore he for that!

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

i think they want to keep it in the museum as it attracts fans to it
many NRM locos should be restored i would even like to see 6229 working again along side 4468. It will be 75 years since her run in 2013 and i think they should restore he for that!

That one Id like to see running too. To their credit, they did an excellent job restoring it to static condition. But you wonder how much of that hard work is going to be undone when they pull it to bits to get it running again.

In fairness whatever they do they are going to have people have a go at them. But there doesnt seem anyone pushing for more running LMS or GWR machines, which seems a bit of a failing in something thats supposed to be a NATIONAL rail museum. Even Southern fans would appear to have more NRM machines running than Swindon.

Oh well, we have Tyseley and Didcot. I guess we Western fans ARE spoilt.

 

[Daimler]

That one Id like to see running too. To their credit, they did an excellent job restoring it to static condition. But you wonder how much of that hard work is going to be undone when they pull it to bits to get it running again.

In fairness whatever they do they are going to have people have a go at them. But there doesnt seem anyone pushing for more running LMS or GWR machines, which seems a bit of a failing in something thats supposed to be a NATIONAL rail museum. Even Southern fans would appear to have more NRM machines running than Swindon.
Oh well, we have Tyseley and Didcot. I guess we Western fans ARE spoilt.

Western engines are all the same anyway!

*hides behind desk*

Without jest, though, I'd love to see Lode Star in action, every time I visit the NRM I longingly look at it. I'm also rather fond of the Churchward 2-8-0 that's stuck round the back of 'Station Hall', though I believe there's a classmate nearing running order elsewhere (can't remember where though!).

I'd like to see a few of the Victorian engines out, though - Gladstone or the Stirling Single (or even SECR 737) would be nice!

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

Western engines are all the same anyway!

*hides behind desk*

Without jest, though, I'd love to see Lode Star in action, every time I visit the NRM I longingly look at it. I'm also rather fond of the Churchward 2-8-0 that's stuck round the back of 'Station Hall', though I believe there's a classmate nearing running order elsewhere (can't remember where though!).

I'd like to see a few of the Victorian engines out, though - Gladstone or the Stirling Single (or even SECR 737) would be nice!

Thats because you can never have too much of a good thing!

Im all for running victorian engines mind. Its just running GWR Victorian engines would mean correcting the national network from the present Narrow Gauge.

Yes, those would be good to see running as well.

 

[Vulcan]

Theres already three other working A4s in Britain, the NRM is restoring Flying Scotsman to work again and Tornado will be steaming on the mainline and heritage railways for ever more. Isn't that enough LNER express passenger locos working?