Will the Covid-pandemic hasten the demise of printed timetables and route maps?

[geoffk]

Elsewhere on this forum we have discussed the decline and possible demise of printed public transport information, in the interest of cost-cutting, mainly by local authorities/PTEs. Now, frequent changes of timetable arising from Covid have meant that new leaflets could have a short shelf life so are not being produced. Racks at bus and rail stations which I've visited are now empty.

Up until the beginning of 2020, train companies were still producing printed leaflets but for buses it had become increasingly necessary to rely on on-line information. Are there any views on what the future is likely to hold?

I'm in the midst of a house move from Greater Manchester to Exeter. I've had to rely on a small Devon County Council map, which I printed out, to find my way around. None of the Stagecoach staff at the bus station had anything printed.

For some time now documents from insurance companies, solicitors etc., which used to arrive by post, now come as e-mail attachments. If we need a printed copy, this comes at our expense in terms of paper and ink cartridges! I guess the same will increasingly apply to public transport information. Of course, not all bus and train users are computer-literate.

 

[RT4038]

Elsewhere on this forum we have discussed the decline and possible demise of printed public transport information, in the interest of cost-cutting, mainly by local authorities/PTEs. Now, frequent changes of timetable arising from Covid have meant that new leaflets could have a short shelf life so are not being produced. Racks at bus and rail stations which I've visited are now empty.

Up until the beginning of 2020, train companies were still producing printed leaflets but for buses it had become increasingly necessary to rely on on-line information. Are there any views on what the future is likely to hold?

I'm in the midst of a house move from Greater Manchester to Exeter. I've had to rely on a small Devon County Council map, which I printed out, to find my way around. None of the Stagecoach staff at the bus station had anything printed.

For some time now documents, from insurance companies, solicitors etc., which used to come to us by post, now arrive as e-mail attachments. If we need a printed copy, this comes at our expense in terms of paper and ink cartridges! I guess the same will increasingly apply to public transport information. Of course, not all bus and train users are computer-literate.

I am sure that if you contact the bus company and ask them for a particular timetable(s) or route map(s), they would print one out and send it you. However, asking for them all may not be seen as reasonable! Not all bus and train users are computer literate, but then when the railways first came plenty of people couldn't read at all, let alone understand a timetable. Unfortunately you do have to keep with the times in order to enjoy the full range that life has to offer.

 

[Busaholic]

The lack of printed information will only hasten the demise of bus travel outside the major cities, and possibly even within them, as the case of London seems to indicate. With London, it's very much the paucity of bus maps that is the problem, which will greatly increase if/when tourism, both national and international, ever returns in numbers. In other areas, it's lack of printed timetables either in book form (best) or leaflets (less good, but a lot better than nothing) or, even worse, where the info has been produced but there's nowhere locally where you can obtain it, because of closure of libraries, bus enquiry offices and even Tourist Information Centres. Why can't bus drivers in more rural areas carry timetables where they exist, obtainable on demand or in an area accessible by the passenger?

 

[D2007wsm]

In this area, the councils have done away with timetables on the stops as well as First don’t have printed timetables at the moment. Though in the Bus Station they will print them off of the website for you.

I was talking to someone who works for First and they said the amount of paper timetables which are wasted is ridiculous and people are frequently seen taking a leaflet to look at before chucking them in the bin.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I can't think of the last time I've needed to use a paper timetable or map - everything I need I can access via mobile.

I realise this isn't the case or an option for everybody but we're approaching the point where paper timetables and maps are obsolete. I do, however, think they should be in place at major stops and interchanges rather than at every single bus stop.

 

[AM9]

No problem with bus service info round here. Most if not all bus stops have a simple bar map showing stops and travel time between them and a tabulated list of times at that stop. All the information is also there on the Herts Intalink website which conveniently shows all services irrespective of operator in one place. Given that the buses here are run as unregulated commercial operations, the access to information is not far short of TfL's offering.

 

[Andyh82]

Every single piece of printed literature was removed where I am, not because they were out of date, but because of the idea that people can catch Covid from multiple people touching the leaflets, so there isn’t even any leaflets advertising travel cards or tourist attractions

 

[duncombec]

It's an interesting topic and will depend very much on people's personal preferences. Much though there is talk of people not using printed literature any more, and to an extent that is certainly true, there are times where it would be a benefit to produce it anyway, even if in smaller quantities.

I have become a fairly enthusiastic user of "new technology" in the last year or so, keeping the printed timetables more for "the collection", but it let me down badly yesterday. BusTimes, Traveline, the Arriva website and the Arriva App were giving me different information - the App even denied the journey existed, instead suggesting I travel miles in the opposite direction to pick up another service! My phone was down to 3% on BatterySaver mode (having forgot to charge it fully before going out, then using it more than planned!) and it was 5.45pm. The bus stop timetable was covered up with a notice encouraging me to use the App, even though it was actually right for the service I wanted to use. The one thing that would have given me a reliable answer was a printed timetable. Which was at home. What's more, someone got on at the following stop and promptly apologised to the driver for not being ready, as the App wasn't showing the bus... I'm an enthusiast and I know other sources of information. He was clearly a regular user using the app for tracking, but knew there was a bus. If the average non-regular user comes go a bus stop with a sign saying check the app, and the app says no buses, they go by car.

Two other thoughts come to mind.

Last year, travelling around Greater Manchester and the WY Metro area, I was struck by how much use the travel centres got. Whilst older people tended to know exactly what service they wanted and would go straight for the printed timetable, younger people would stand in the queue and wait to ask an advisor, even if - especially in Leeds - that queue could take 10 minutes for them to get to the front. This from a group of people who supposedly do everything online, and travel centres, like printed timetables, are apparently barely used.

I also think it's worth pointing out that a printed timetable, be that book, leaflet, or at a bus stop, is part of an overall product. Look at how many companies have had internet shopping outlets for years, yet still advertise in newspapers. They may be "special offers", but they don't assume people know what they are. Similarly look at charity 'advertising': it's quite often from the big charities that most people already know exist. If we have gone as digital as might be suggested, surely any print advertising (for that is essentially what a timetable is) would be redundant?
It's perhaps noticeable that most, if not all, of the operators generally regarded to be the best in the country still print timetables, and many also have travel centres. Reading, Brighton & Hove, NCT, Trent, Lothian - even Ensign have a window at Lakeside.
Equally, look at services that have been withdrawn over the last few years. Where was the publicity for that evening service? That market day service that had been run by the same operator to the same timetable since 1954? Try tracking down any useful information for a council tendered service run by an independent that is "designed" for shopping in towns, but might serve walkers in one direction where the council expects the operator to print a leaflet? All it takes is a basic print-out from your average Microsoft Office program to do the job. All too often there is an assumption that people know where it goes and when.

Will it hasten their demise? I regret to say probably yes. Is it an easy cut for cash-strapped companies to make? Yes. Will it be the right choice? That remains to be seen.

 

[route101]

I was thinking this today as I was in Buchanan Bus Station in Glasgow. The last of the first bus timetables have now gone. I younger people want to know how to get from A to B without the bigger picture. Google maps directions for example.

I like the guides you get such as Stagecoach Cumbria produce; it contains all the timetables in one and has a map. Maps are very important for bus timetables.

It's the same with train timetables - all gone. It's generally quicker looking up a paper timetable. It can be awkward searching on phone especially when your making a decision, though real time trackers are useful.

 

[43055]

Up until the beginning of 2020, train companies were still producing printed leaflets but for buses it had become increasingly necessary to rely on on-line information. Are there any views on what the future is likely to hold?

It looks like some leaflets are coming back slowly. I have seen pictures on twitter etc. of First Kernow, Transdev 36 & Coastliner and Midland Classic all producing them.

Personally I hope they do come back as I do prefer a paper timetable as certainly for the railway it is easier for looking at connections and now the new arriva website you will need a paper timetable to understand when they run.

 

[Megafuss]

Given the Governement is supporting the industry and timetables can remain relatively stable, I don't see any reason why operators can't resume printed publicity. You are seeing Transdev, some Go Ahead companies and even some First Group companies doing so. So if others don't then it's clearly out of choice rather than need.

For what it's worth you can't beat a timetable leaflet as a promotional tool as it's better than saying "check the website" when at a launch event, travel shop or on a bus with an empty leaflet rack...

 

[PeterC]

For what it's worth you can't beat a timetable leaflet as a promotional tool as it's better than saying "check the website" when at a launch event, travel shop or on a bus with an empty leaflet rack...

That is the point. Print timetables are for publicity and should be actively used to promote the service rather than passively hidden away in a couple of bus stations.

 

[route101]

East Yorkshire buses produced some printed publicity for he new buses on X46 between Hull and York.8

 

[peterblue]

Sure it's "all online" but a new customer won't peruse websites for businesses they do not frequent.

Sometimes I'll get a leaflet through the door for a local building trade service or for a nearby takeaway. Why? Because it aims to promote the services to future clients.

The same logic applies (roughly) to buses. A bus isn't going to be popular if hardly anyone is aware of it existing.

 

[Statto]

Stagecoach MCSL at least, seem to have stopped printing there timetable area books before Covid hit which is a shame, i'd always pick up a book for Preston & Chester when i passed through those areas.

I find paper timetables & maps a lot easier to have a glance at, rather than looking at pdf timetables & maps on my mobile device, which often involve waiting for the timetable/map to load, then making the timetable/map bigger so i can read it, then that involves a lot of scrolling.

One annoyance with online maps, some areas don't have a route list with the map[ie they don't pdf the reverse of the map with a list of the routes], West Midlands/GMPTE especially notorious for this which is daft, as you look at the map glance the route then you have to go back to the website for the timetable to see where the route goes

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Any timetable infomation in West Yorkshire is few and far between with most bus stop timetable cases holding either a generic "go online for times" poster or in Otley a basic timetable printed on A4 paper. If/when printed information returns I personally think that area guides would be the way to go to keep costs down, it goes to show that printed information is still needed and should be made available in a basic guide - similar to what Devon County Council does.

So far I have only managed to obtain a copy of the Dalesbus timetable for the shortened 2020 summer season anything else, such as the changes in Leeds, I've had to ask for.

 

[freetoview33]

My idea would be to at least have a QR code at places like bus stops, bus/rail stations, poi ect so people could easily scan and find the correct information. But it comes down to the age old problem that there is no one system for infomation to be stored/accessed from.

 

[Pat1105]

To be honest, I can’t see many operators/local authorities producing printed timetables to put on display anymore. Not because of the risk of Covid, but simply due to the fact that most people use their phones etc to access information. Even nowadays, the elderly population are becoming more accustomed to technology. There also never seems to be any timetables available actually on the bus, in the racks behind the driver’s cab. Having said that, I was surprised to see a load of timetables on my Johnsons 150 in Birmingham in the racks.

With regard to bus stop timetables, I don’t really find these to be accurate unless the stop is a timing point. Those times are purely estimates, and unless you’re at the stop a good 10 minutes before, there’s a chance the bus may have gone by the time you get to the stop. Johnsons 150 always runs early on a Saturday and I’ve been sat at the Maypole for a good 10 minutes because of early running.

 

[Deerfold]

Any timetable infomation in West Yorkshire is few and far between with most bus stop timetable cases holding either a generic "go online for times" poster or in Otley a basic timetable printed on A4 paper. If/when printed information returns I personally think that area guides would be the way to go to keep costs down, it goes to show that printed information is still needed and should be made available in a basic guide - similar to what Devon County Council does.

So far I have only managed to obtain a copy of the Dalesbus timetable for the shortened 2020 summer season anything else, such as the changes in Leeds, I've had to ask for.

Main stops along the 784/873/874/883 routes have times put in by Dalesbus volunteers - they've put in times for all routes which share stops with these.

 

[carlberry]

My idea would be to at least have a QR code at places like bus stops, bus/rail stations, poi ect so people could easily scan and find the correct information. But it comes down to the age old problem that there is no one system for infomation to be stored/accessed from.

Most stops have their national code displayed somewhere, that can be used with systems like http://nextbuses.mobi/

 

[Man of Kent]

most people use their phones etc to access information. Even nowadays, the elderly population are becoming more accustomed to technology

Just because someone has a smartphone doesn't mean that they can use all of its features.
There are also numerous issues about reproducing maps and timetables at an acceptable size and scale on a phone screen (particularly as your eyes get older!).

 

[Leeds1970]

in the West Yorkshire area, over the next few weeks Metro are going to produce small batches of 'proper' timetables of what are considered to be the most requested by customers, they will however not be in display racks - you will have to ask at the counter of a travel centre - as you currently do for the A4 print outs.

 

[Busaholic]

in the West Yorkshire area, over the next few weeks Metro are going to produce small batches of 'proper' timetables of what are considered to be the most requested by customers, they will however not be in display racks - you will have to ask at the counter of a travel centre - as you currently do for the A4 print outs.

That a sensible, customer-friendly move, so different from the spirit of the age, alas!

 

[Deerfold]

That a sensible, customer-friendly move, so different from the spirit of the age, alas!

It certainly contrasts with their roadside timetables in my area. They were wrong for 5 months, then removed just as my local bus company returned to pre-Corona times

 

[TUC]

The lack of printed information will only hasten the demise of bus travel outside the major cities, and possibly even within them, as the case of London seems to indicate. With London, it's very much the paucity of bus maps that is the problem, which will greatly increase if/when tourism, both national and international, ever returns in numbers. In other areas, it's lack of printed timetables either in book form (best) or leaflets (less good, but a lot better than nothing) or, even worse, where the info has been produced but there's nowhere locally where you can obtain it, because of closure of libraries, bus enquiry offices and even Tourist Information Centres. Why can't bus drivers in more rural areas carry timetables where they exist, obtainable on demand or in an area accessible by the passenger?

Asking a library or even a library are the last places I would go for bus information? Why would I bother when online information has a better chance of being up to date and it is easier to plan journeys?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

In the West Yorkshire area, over the next few weeks Metro are going to produce small batches of 'proper' timetables of what are considered to be the most requested by customers, they will however not be in display racks - you will have to ask at the counter of a travel centre - as you currently do for the A4 print outs.

Will these 'proper' timetables be of a new size, i.e. the same size as the Transdev copies or the old A5 sized things?

I can see the Headingley corridor services being put into a single timetable, likewise with the LeedsCity Electric services 5 & 5A, the York Road corridor services and maybe the Morley to Meanwood, White Rose to Roundhay and Leeds to Wetherby corridor services and maybe the Holme Valley and Calder Valley services. Anything else would probably remain as the cheapo printouts but I have noticed that South Pennine Community Transport are producing their own timetable guides - so its a start.

I did suggest to Metro that they should take a leaf out of Wiltshire Councils book by producing some of the timetables as a single sheet of A3 (or A4 with the rural services e.g. the 900/901/902 between Huddersfield and Hebden Bridge/ Rishworth) as this would not only explain what the changes have happened but it would allow the timetable to be made into an eighteen across layout, rather than the current ten across.

An example of a Wiltshire Council timetable can be found here in this link: http://www.mrug.org.uk/wc_270-3_20200405.pdf

 

[Busaholic]

Asking a library or even a library are the last places I would go for bus information? Why would I bother when online information has a better chance of being up to date and it is easier to plan journeys?

Maybe you live somewhere which retains a traditional library: I live somewhere where the county council has closed or hived off most libraries, with the few they retain being converted to 'one shop stops' for all sorts of information. Until recently the c.c. produced a comprehensive, all-operator bus timetable, the only way you'd get all the information in one place, in a short time, whereas you seem to think that finding all the different operators' websites (assuming you even knew who the operators are, not always an easy task, especially for the myriad tourists) and melding them together is progress?! The only place locally where you could reliably get the timetable was the library, as the Tourist Info place has been taken over by the National Trust who really only want to 'push' their places and the First office at the bus station has closed. So, there's an answer to your question, not that you'll probably accept it.

 

[duncombec]

I have become a fairly enthusiastic user of "new technology" in the last year or so, keeping the printed timetables more for "the collection", but it let me down badly yesterday. BusTimes, Traveline, the Arriva website and the Arriva App were giving me different information - the App even denied the journey existed, instead suggesting I travel miles in the opposite direction to pick up another service! My phone was down to 3% on BatterySaver mode (having forgot to charge it fully before going out, then using it more than planned!) and it was 5.45pm. The bus stop timetable was covered up with a notice encouraging me to use the App, even though it was actually right for the service I wanted to use. The one thing that would have given me a reliable answer was a printed timetable. Which was at home. What's more, someone got on at the following stop and promptly apologised to the driver for not being ready, as the App wasn't showing the bus... I'm an enthusiast and I know other sources of information. He was clearly a regular user using the app for tracking, but knew there was a bus. If the average non-regular user comes go a bus stop with a sign saying check the app, and the app says no buses, they go by car.

As if my own experience wasn't bad enough (with the App not showing any journeys after 3pm), I happened to see a tweet sent to the local company earlier this week, asking for information on just that service. Arriva's customer services responded that the website timetable was indeed correct, and the service had been withdrawn after that time as a Covid measure, and to check back regularly to see whether it has been reintroduced. So what were I and the other half a dozen passengers on? A magic carpet?!
Whilst the present levels of incompetence exhibited by this particular group may be an extreme, it goes to prove that technology is only as good as the information it is fed. Those operators who do publicity of any sort very well will do it very well, and those who do it badly will do it badly.

 

[Busaholic]

Let’s just have a fact check on your statement. The situation in a Penzance is that First pay a significant contribution to the National Trust welcome centre, which (Covid closure aside) has a big ‘bus information’ vinyl across the front window, has a huge network map and ticket board displayed on one wall inside, and a prominent timetable bin.

OK, can you tell me when the National Trust Welcome Centre has been open since lockdown in March? I check their website every so often (not updated for weeks since I last looked two weeks ago) and go past every single day with no evidence it has ever reopened, unlike every other single Tourist Information Centre in Cornwall, some of which passed to Town Councils but no others to the iconoclastic and utterly selfish National Trust.

 

[Typhoon]

As if my own experience wasn't bad enough (with the App not showing any journeys after 3pm), I happened to see a tweet sent to the local company earlier this week, asking for information on just that service. Arriva's customer services responded that the website timetable was indeed correct, and the service had been withdrawn after that time as a Covid measure, and to check back regularly to see whether it has been reintroduced. So what were I and the other half a dozen passengers on? A magic carpet?!
Whilst the present levels of incompetence exhibited by this particular group may be an extreme, it goes to prove that technology is only as good as the information it is fed. Those operators who do publicity of any sort very well will do it very well, and those who do it badly will do it badly.

Why was I not surprised to find that it was Arriva? I checked a route I sometimes use. Used to be hourly (pre Covid). They have a six hour gap on a Saturday (between 09:00 and 15:00) while Traveline gives a ninety minute service. I can't be bothered contacting them, it took me ages last time to convince them that a timetable showing that the first journey from an outlying village into a town with a plenty supply of ENCTS holders was after 15:00, while from the town to the village was every 30 minutes (until 16:00 then nothing) made no sense. Life is too short!