Will the lockdown increase in cycling end in tears?

[Bletchleyite]

I find the Dutch style "crown bells" are best (the traditional "rring-rring" ones) - they make a loud sound that isn't at all aggressive and is only associated with a bicycle. I fitted one a few months ago and have received a few compliments from people over its use. They're only about a fiver, too.

I'd wholly support compulsion, with a minimum specification of that nature rather than the useless "ping" ones that nobody can hear.

 

[AM9]

I find the Dutch style "crown bells" are best (the traditional "rring-rring" ones) - they make a loud sound that isn't at all aggressive and is only associated with a bicycle. I fitted one a few months ago and have received a few compliments from people over its use. They're only about a fiver, too.

I'd wholly support compulsion, with a minimum specification of that nature rather than the useless "ping" ones that nobody can hear.

It depends on the ambient noise level whether a single 'ping' bell type can be heard. Usually when I'm on the Alban way, I can be about 20m away and pedestrians hear a single ping and turn around to check. I always say 'thank you' to them as I pass.
For the belligerant types who think that ignoring it is clever, I will follow up with a blast from a Hornit db140, at about 10m which usually get a response. Depending on their reaction I might give them a pointed 'thank you'.

 

[Reliablebeam]

I think another side to this is whether people will still be so keen on cycling come September / October when the weather turns rubbish. Round here, even in a fairly urban environment the cycle paths turn to mud quite quickly outside the summer months. I'd venture that most people will switch to car. Worryingly, a few of my colleagues have indicated they will stop car sharing which isn't going to work wonders for the congestion on site...

 

[cactustwirly]

You often don't need dedicated cycle insurance. It is quite commonly (though not always) the case that the general third party liability clause found in most home contents insurance policies will cover you.

I suspect this being the case is related to hardly anyone knowing it is, so claims are low

You don't need insurance at all, it's only cars that are legally obliged to have at least third party insurance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You don't need insurance at all, it's only cars that are legally obliged to have at least third party insurance.

Indeed not, though those who wish to have it may be surprised to find they quite possibly already do.

 

[cactustwirly]

S

Indeed not, though those who wish to have it may be surprised to find they quite possibly already do.

I don't really see why you would need it

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't really see why you would need it

You don't necessarily, but if you accidentally cycled into an expensive car and it was your fault you could find yourself rather out of pocket if you didn't. Even with a bicycle it would be very easy to cause thousands of pounds worth of damage to, say, a brand new Merc.

 

[al78]

Indeed not, though those who wish to have it may be surprised to find they quite possibly already do.

I'd double check with your home contents insurer first before relying on that. I once asked mine many years ago whether I'd be covered if someone made a claim against me if I was cycling was involved in an accident, and they said no. Since then I have been a member of the CTC which has third party insurance and legal aid thrown in.

 

[al78]

You don't necessarily, but if you accidentally cycled into an expensive car and it was your fault you could find yourself rather out of pocket if you didn't. Even with a bicycle it would be very easy to cause thousands of pounds worth of damage to, say, a brand new Merc.

You don't need it, but it is very cheap to buy cover, and is something to cover the very unlikely, but not impossible situation of hitting something or someone whilst cycling and causing enough damage for the victim to want to sue you. The general rule with non obligatory insurance is don't take it if you can afford to cover the financial costs of an incident yourself, because over the long term average you lose money paying for insurance.

 

[al78]

I find the Dutch style "crown bells" are best (the traditional "rring-rring" ones) - they make a loud sound that isn't at all aggressive and is only associated with a bicycle. I fitted one a few months ago and have received a few compliments from people over its use. They're only about a fiver, too.

I'd wholly support compulsion, with a minimum specification of that nature rather than the useless "ping" ones that nobody can hear.

I don't see why cycle bells need to be compulsory, it is a solution looking for a problem. Cyclists are not surrounded by steel and glass, so can directly communicate with pedestrians using their voices in the absence of a bell. The type who try to barge past pedestrians are not the type who would bother to use a bell they were forced to have.

During the lockdown pedestrians have been responding to my bell far more than before, which is something I don't understand. A bell always used to be next to useless because people either didn't hear it or ignored it.

 

[Jozhua]

Proper cycling infrastructure, dedicated reserved ways, often grade separated, away from footpaths and road traffic, doesn't generate fares, tolls, or taxes. So in this country we've totally ignored it, because those are the things that we've focused on.

This is, of course, a terrible mistake.

Just part of many things the government ignores in regards to infrastructure, as I'm sure we are all aware been as this is RailForums!

Drivers probably get the best deal, but even then, many roads are in very poor condition and frankly dangerous. I'm not perticularly for expanding the road network, but we should definitely maintain the existing highway network to a somewhat acceptable standard.

The statistics for this year will be interesting. During lockdown there was less traffic so it was probably safer than it has been for a long time. If car use ramps back up to pre-lockdown levels, with more bikes on the road, that will be another matter. I've always been an advocate of cycling for shorter journeys but not by emptying public transport.

Oh yeah, I mean this whole thing is a giant empty out of public transport. Moving all those people back onto the road system will definitely not work so well, especially considering how many people a train/tram can shift.

As a long term cyclist, cycling in Manchester is awful. Living in Salford cycling to Piccadilly isn't great, except before 6/7am.

• Taxi/minicab drivers think they can park anywhere or do a u-turn anywhere.
• Deliveroo riders are looking at there phone half the time and almost always run reds at busy junctions.(I'd have no mercy if I saw one getting ran over/knocked off)
• Seems to be an influx of chavvy people on bikes riding the wrong way down roads recently (I nearly got knocked off by one turning off Bridge Street onto Chapel street.
• Several people seem insistent on using the pavement in areas where the cycling provision is very good (the A6 from Salford Crescent to Salford Central).
• Pedestrians rarely seem to pay attention at lights.
• Pedestrians walking in a narrow bike lane because the pavement is closed on one side of the road - in the middle of rush hour! I nearly crashed into two people within seconds of each other doing 15-20mph, had I hit them I'd have probably ended up under or on top of somebody's car.
• Bike boxes - theres honestly no point to them, given you will almost always find an uber driver sitting in one.
• Traffic lights - The most direct route has about 25 traffic lights which is an absolute nightmare on a bike as they'll almost all be red before you come to a full stop and then as soon as you're stationary they'll change.
• Bike lanes (such as the ones on oxford road with concrete kerb blocks separating them from the road) - someone always seems to riding at about 5mph in them and overtaking is dangerous because they'll be in the middle of the lane and the lanes are generally not wide off.

Rant over.

The key thing is to cycle defensively, you have the same right to be on the road as a car and should be allowed to do so safely.

Cycling in Manchester is bad. Oxford Road probably has the best infrastructure, the rest is very patchy. Many of the lanes just end without warning at junctions.

The traffic light thing is very real. Never understood why it is so common to see cyclists run lights, it's because they are timed for car speeds coming from other junctions, therefore when you are on a bike, every light is a red light (at least in Manchester)

What are your thoughts on the A6 between Crescent and Pendleton, trying to cross that as a pedestrian is death ☠
Further down chapel street is good though for predestrians/cyclists, and there's a quieter bit of route 6 nearby too.

Non-Dutch people regard The Netherlands as the country to emulate when it comes to cycling, but 60 years ago things were very different
How Amsterdam became the bicycle capital of the world

Oh yeah, it's about vision, resolve and funding. All things we lack in this country.

That's a dickhead driver, there are plenty of them unfortunately. Roundabout's can be just as dangerous in a car, especially the spiral ones with traffic lights, as idiots cut you up as they change lanes.

Cycling on the road is normally very safe, if you use your common sense. Most drivers are patient and will give you plenty of room when they overtake.

I do road cycling down busy roads a few times a week and have had no issues at all.

Yeah...it's unfortunate, I'm going to avoid the death circles from now on...

If the council's can't be bothered to do basic road maintenance, that is really pie in the sky.

The roads round me resemble cart tracks with the amount of potholes. It's been like that for months.

Oh potholes are awful on the bike too! Fixing them would benefit everyone, especially cyclists. The worst part is that the potholes are typically at the side of the road where the bikes/bike lanes are...

Some clown at my council has put up signs on shared-used paths asking cyclists to 'slow right down' when passing walkers. Fat chance of that! Separation is not always practical, but cycle-calming measures - slalom gates, rumble strips etc - are needed in many places. Perhaps we could have cycle-free Sundays.

Slalom gates are not so good for disabled/limited mobility people, especially on those hand powered bikes. Things that block bikes tend to hurt the disabled, and are ineffective as most riders will do anything to avoid dismounting.

Rumble strips don't seem like a bad idea though, if it makes people ride a bit slower at pinch points.

As both a cyclist and a pedestrian on shared space paths I agree that there are cyclists that do not give the other path users sufficient warning and would support a law making the carrying of and using an effective bell. That would at least give the cyclist an unambiguous warning sound for pedestrians that wander all over the shared space, and give them an adequate opportunity to walk on the left* in order that other's can pass safely. Unfortunately, there is the usual mix of belligerant pedestrians who deliberately ignore the warning, and selfish cyclists who refuse to fit or use a bell.
* in case soembody questions this, the highway code recommends that pedestrians walk on the left at all times except when walking on a highway with no pavements.

Only issue is when you get a stare of death for using your bell.

I think it's hard to say what is right when it comes to these off-road pathways. It's likely they will become more busy post lockdown, from people using them for transportation or leasure. Again, investment in widening pathways or dedicated cycle lanes/routes through these areas would help, which feeds into my main thesis that without better infrastructure, there's gonna be some accidents and tears.

I think another side to this is whether people will still be so keen on cycling come September / October when the weather turns rubbish. Round here, even in a fairly urban environment the cycle paths turn to mud quite quickly outside the summer months. I'd venture that most people will switch to car. Worryingly, a few of my colleagues have indicated they will stop car sharing which isn't going to work wonders for the congestion on site...

I'd use my bike in the rain, beats walking in the rain to a bus, then waiting in the rain for the bus.

But yeah, better cycle infrastructure would be useful, because muddy lanes are a pain, especially if you want to arrive clean!

Worrying to hear about people avoiding car sharing, that is why I think post-lockdown car traffic will increase, making it even harder for motor vehicles and non-motor vehicles to navigate around each other. And for **** drivers who stare at their phones all the time to not crash into people.

 

[ashkeba]

* in case soembody questions this, the highway code recommends that pedestrians walk on the left at all times except when walking on a highway with no pavements.

Which rule number do you think says that, please?

 

[ashkeba]

Drivers probably get the best deal, but even then, many roads are in very poor condition and frankly dangerous. I'm not perticularly for expanding the road network, but we should definitely maintain the existing highway network to a somewhat acceptable standard.

This is not likely while there are too many heavy cars speeding around, tearing up the roads. We need some drivers to switch to bikes.

Rumble strips don't seem like a bad idea though, if it makes people ride a bit slower at pinch points.

Any bike which handles the current potholes (and repairs that are often worse!) won't even feel a rumble strip. It probably needs "Dutch dips" to have a chance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd double check with your home contents insurer first before relying on that. I once asked mine many years ago whether I'd be covered if someone made a claim against me if I was cycling was involved in an accident, and they said no. Since then I have been a member of the CTC which has third party insurance and legal aid thrown in.

Yes, that's why I said possibly. I've checked with another insurer (Direct Line, but it was a while ago so if you're bothered check yourself, don't assume they still do) and they gave a definite yes in writing. It really depends on the wording of that clause of the policy and any exclusions - you'll get some that cover liability arising from owning or running a home, which it clearly isn't, but others just cover general liability of any kind with set exclusions, which is usually things like motor vehicles. Others won't want to cover it but the wording would mean if sued (which is what it's for anyway, you don't claim direct like with car insurance) they would have to, as some insurers found to their dislike with COVID.

 

[AM9]

Which rule number do you think says that, please?

On paths next to roads rule 1 says"1. Pavements (including any path along the side of a road) should be used if provided. Where possible, avoid being next to the kerb with your back to the traffic. If you have to step into the road, look both ways first. Always show due care and consideration for others."

Given that on almost every road in the UK, vehicles (including cycles) drive on the left, that means that pedestrians on adjacent footpaths also walk on the left.
On a shared space footpath, pedestrians are equal to cyclists, I.e. they are effectively slower moving traffic. Thus it is encumbent on cyclists to respect that, just as they would expect motor vehicles to take caution when passing them on a normal road. Equally, it is expected that pedestrians walk on the left and don't wander across the path putting both themselves and passing cyclists at risk.
Of course there is the exception to walking on the left which is along roads without footpaths, where for their own protection, they are advised to face oncoming traffic. That is really an extension of rule 1 above which specifically says: "where possible avoid being next to the kerb with your back to the traffic", except there is no kerb of course.

 

[C J Snarzell]

In Wigan, not far from where I am from is the Saddle Junction which is where several roads converge into one another close to 2 x retail parks, an Asda, the DW Stadium, the fire station, police station & a Redrow housing estate built a few years ago.

Anyone from my neck of the woods will be familiar with it & it is well know in the area as a traffic hot-spot. About two years ago, Wigan Council pumped hundreds of thousands of pounds developing the whole junction into a cycling friendly environment with individual cycling lanes & cycle crossings. It is fair to say that most roads in Wigan are in a poor state of repair and there was plenty of anger at money being spent on cycling lanes and not on the roads themselves.

The issue is that the volume of cyclists in the town isn't enough to justify paying for such a scheme & the Saddle junction now resembles a crazy golf course! Traffic lanes have been reduced and it has caused more congestion on match days at the DW Stadium. The whole project appears to have been a complete lead balloon as I have never actually seen any cyclist use it!!!!

Wigan itself has been highlighted as one on the worst places in the UK for people with poor lifestyles and I can believe it. The death age in the town is lower than the national average and there is a real push for a healthy living programme set up by the council and the cycling scheme falls on the back of that.

I enjoy cycling and I own two bikes. I have been out a handful of times on the cycle since the lockdown started in March, but maybe not as much as I should have. I have seen a noticeable increase in people cycling such as parents with young children which is fantastic.

The sad reality is that once life starts to return to some degree of normality, we are likely to see many push bikes being left to gather 'dust n' rust' in garages and out houses because people will quickly go back to their old ways.

Another member has already highlighted that come the Autumn, people tend to not cycle as much anyway and this is true. During the Winter months the only people you do see on a cycle are die hard cyclists or people in low paid jobs who either cannot afford to run a car & maybe have not taken their test.

To answer the original question - I very much doubt the lockdown will impact greatly on the use of cycles. Only a small percentage of people will cycle from A to B in working class towns like Wigan. Cities like London & Manchester are a different kettle of fish though. Certainly in Manchester it is easier to use a bike because commuting around the city in a car or the Metrolink is a nightmare and because of the high number of students with limited funds, cycling is always the viable option for many people in cities as using other means is not always practical.

CJ

 

[ashkeba]

On paths next to roads rule 1 says"1. Pavements (including any path along the side of a road) should be used if provided. Where possible, avoid being next to the kerb with your back to the traffic. If you have to step into the road, look both ways first. Always show due care and consideration for others."

Given that on almost every road in the UK, vehicles (including cycles) drive on the left, that means that pedestrians on adjacent footpaths also walk on the left.

That does not follow because pedestrians may use the footpath on the right, where the above would mean walking on the right, and some footpaths have no kerb, being a wide grass strip (the amusingly-named "soft verges") away, where the above says nothing.

 

[squizzler]

Another factor that needs to be considered is that the uptake in bicycle use has come at a point when ebikes are now a refined product and ready for mass adoption. These are truly a quantum leap for utility cycling, and generally come equipped for all weather. And they can be ridden all year round too - the power assistance means that the riders can moderate their own power output keep warm in winter but not overheat when heavily dressed or wearing waterproofs, similarly they can maintain a cooling headwind in summer. Total game changer.

In conjunction with scooter micro-hire and so-forth, we are in the middle of a paradigm shift in urban and to some extent suburban mobility. The infrastructure provision needs to reflect this emerging reality.

 

[py_megapixel]

Cycling (without Dutch style infrastructure, which fortunately MK does have) is certainly riskier than most other modes of transport, probably only motorcycling beats it. But you do learn to cycle defensively over time - doesn't mean I haven't had a bump or three. But I think the overall health benefit outweighs it. Hope you recover soon by the way.

As well as the cyclist it's worth noting that drivers are far from completely blameless here. The lack of basic education in simple things (such as not overtaking a cyclist on the right if they are signalling to turn right; not driving/cycling while using a phone; not ignoring the speed limit; not tailgating) is astounding, at least in my area.

The ultimate solution, as you elude to, is completely segregated cycle ways off the main carriageway, as I noticed had been installed on Oxford Road last time I was in Manchester

Google Streetview image showing a two-lane road with a wide cycle lane separated from the main road by a kerb

This isn't the best example of this type of system, but it's certainly enough to get the general idea. The problem with traditional cycle lanes is that drivers park in them and there's nothing to stop people swerving into the path of a cyclist, so it's not as safe.

 

[AM9]

... Only issue is when you get a stare of death for using your bell.

I think it's hard to say what is right when it comes to these off-road pathways. It's likely they will become more busy post lockdown, from people using them for transportation or leasure. Again, investment in widening pathways or dedicated cycle lanes/routes through these areas would help, which feeds into my main thesis that without better infrastructure, there's gonna be some accidents and tears. ...

I've not had the "stare of death" for using my bell, - at least if I sense that the person thinks that the path is just for them, I just carry on passing. There are two main routes that I use locally:
1) the Alban Way, a 6 mile path laid on the trackbed of a single track railway between St Albans and Hatfield. That is generally well surfaced and about 3 metres wide (with a few pinch points and 3-4 road crossings. Most of the walkers that drift are just careless, (it's quite easy to walk in a straight line even when listening to earphones).
2) the Causeway, - runs through Verulamium Park, much of it alongside the remains of a Roman wall. Some of it is about 6 metres wide and is marked on one side for pedestrians and the other for cyclists. Occasionally there are cyclists that stray onto the walking side and vice versa, but generally it isn't a problem. This split path goes down a fairly steep hill meaning that decending cyclists can pass closely by pedestrians so that it is important that pedestrians walk on the left so that they face the oncoming cyclists.
There are calls for cycling paths to be improved but with land prices being so high, (that's if it is available), it isn't going to happen fast. On the roads, some of them have cycle lanes but they are often rather narrow and often stop because the roads get narrow. In this circumstances, I normally take the prime position to prevent being squeezed into the kerb or worse. I have found that motorists intimidate cyclists who do not assert their rights to road space when they need it.

 

[trebor79]

The statistics for this year will be interesting. During lockdown there was less traffic so it was probably safer than it has been for a long time. If car use ramps back up to pre-lockdown levels, with more bikes on the road, that will be another matter. I've always been an advocate of cycling for shorter journeys but not by emptying public transport.

I'm not keen on Boris's plan that people should cycle in London instead of taking the tube. I've rarely cycled there but I've made plenty of bus journeys so I've seen the traffic and witnessed the way drivers (including the buses) treat cyclists, e.g. tailgating or overtaking and then immediately stopping at a bus stop, blocking the cyclist's path. Taking Paddington to Liverpool Street as an example, why would I swap a 20 minute run on the Circle line for a 30 minute cycle on busy roads? My local knowledge is not good enough to know the route through side roads or where the less busy roads are.

Cycling in London or other large cities is just too dangerous for my liking. Aside from the danger of being squished, there are seriously high levels of pollution and I'm not convinced physical exertion whilst breathing all that rubbish deep into your lungs is all that sensible really.

 

[AM9]

That does not follow because pedestrians may use the footpath on the right, where the above would mean walking on the right, and some footpaths have no kerb, being a wide grass strip (the amusingly-named "soft verges") away, where the above says nothing.

Assuming you are referring to a footpath along a two-way road, if pedestrians are walking on the left side footpath, they keep to the left away from the kerb because traffic is approaching from behind. If they walk on the right side footpath, they still keep to the left, facing the oncoming traffic and allowing others to keep away from the kerb, (so that they aren't blind to traffic approaching from behind them). The only exception would be when walking on the right side footpath in the direction of traffic on a one-way street. Fortunately, one-way streets are relatively few.
In the case of soft verges, grass strips etc., it they are wide enough to walk on and vehicles are not permitted to travel along them, they are the same as footpaths so should be treated as such. If they aren't suitable to walk on, pedestrians should either use the other side (if better or even available) or use the highway code rules for walking in the road, i.e. on the right side facing the traffic.

 

[AM9]

Cycling in London or other large cities is just too dangerous for my liking. Aside from the danger of being squished, there are seriously high levels of pollution and I'm not convinced physical exertion whilst breathing all that rubbish deep into your lungs is all that sensible really.

So your solution would be to use a mode of transport that adds to that pollution?

 

[trebor79]

So your solution would be to use a mode of transport that adds to that pollution?

No, my solution is to walk or use the extensive public transport options that are found in most large cities.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, my solution is to walk or use the extensive public transport options that are found in most large cities.

Walking uses more energy over a given distance than cycling, so requires more respiration. If you're huffing and puffing cycling, slow down.

 

[AM9]

No, my solution is to walk or use the extensive public transport options that are found in most large cities.

Right. That's good to hear.

 

[AM9]

Walking uses more energy over a given distance than cycling, so requires more respiration. If you're huffing and puffing cycling, slow down.

But it is still better than a personal CO2 and NOX generator.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But it is still better than a personal CO2 and NOX generator.

It is, I was questioning his point that you breathe in too much gunk cycling compared with walking, by suggesting that you'll breathe in more walking as you will breathe more for any given distance travelled. Cycling as a mode of transport isn't supposed to be a workout (unless you want it to be) - I find it quite amusing the way most people can walk slowly but you put them on a bike and they can't do anything other than go flat out and stop for a rest half a mile up the road puffing and panting like a small dog.

 

[AM9]

It is, I was questioning his point that you breathe in too much gunk cycling compared with walking, by suggesting that you'll breathe in more walking as you will breathe more for any given distance travelled. Cycling as a mode of transport isn't supposed to be a workout (unless you want it to be) - I find it quite amusing the way most people can walk slowly but you put them on a bike and they can't do anything other than go flat out and stop for a rest half a mile up the road puffing and panting like a small dog.

Yep, point taken. It's years since I did any routine cycling rather than leisure or exercise riding.

 

[Jozhua]

In Wigan, not far from where I am from is the Saddle Junction which is where several roads converge into one another close to 2 x retail parks, an Asda, the DW Stadium, the fire station, police station & a Redrow housing estate built a few years ago.

Anyone from my neck of the woods will be familiar with it & it is well know in the area as a traffic hot-spot. About two years ago, Wigan Council pumped hundreds of thousands of pounds developing the whole junction into a cycling friendly environment with individual cycling lanes & cycle crossings. It is fair to say that most roads in Wigan are in a poor state of repair and there was plenty of anger at money being spent on cycling lanes and not on the roads themselves.

The issue is that the volume of cyclists in the town isn't enough to justify paying for such a scheme & the Saddle junction now resembles a crazy golf course! Traffic lanes have been reduced and it has caused more congestion on match days at the DW Stadium. The whole project appears to have been a complete lead balloon as I have never actually seen any cyclist use it!!!!

Wigan itself has been highlighted as one on the worst places in the UK for people with poor lifestyles and I can believe it. The death age in the town is lower than the national average and there is a real push for a healthy living programme set up by the council and the cycling scheme falls on the back of that.

I enjoy cycling and I own two bikes. I have been out a handful of times on the cycle since the lockdown started in March, but maybe not as much as I should have. I have seen a noticeable increase in people cycling such as parents with young children which is fantastic.

The sad reality is that once life starts to return to some degree of normality, we are likely to see many push bikes being left to gather 'dust n' rust' in garages and out houses because people will quickly go back to their old ways.

Another member has already highlighted that come the Autumn, people tend to not cycle as much anyway and this is true. During the Winter months the only people you do see on a cycle are die hard cyclists or people in low paid jobs who either cannot afford to run a car & maybe have not taken their test.

To answer the original question - I very much doubt the lockdown will impact greatly on the use of cycles. Only a small percentage of people will cycle from A to B in working class towns like Wigan. Cities like London & Manchester are a different kettle of fish though. Certainly in Manchester it is easier to use a bike because commuting around the city in a car or the Metrolink is a nightmare and because of the high number of students with limited funds, cycling is always the viable option for many people in cities as using other means is not always practical.

CJ

I think you might see more people who have been relying on public transport adopt it. For many journeys around towns/cities, bikes are considerably faster than public transport and are 75% as fast for 5% the price.

I think Manchester will probably see a big shift, as a lot of people dealing with our crumbling transport network will jump ship altogether. I live in an area with no Metrolink and frankly even that is a dream. Public transport is significantly worse than my old town in Derbyshire, in every sense, apart from perhaps frequency.

In terms of your complaints about the infrastructure in Wigan, it's always going to be a chicken/egg situation. One of the points of this thread, at least for me, was to point out the infrastructure is not there currently to support a large increase in cyclists, especially among non MAMIL groups.

Another factor that needs to be considered is that the uptake in bicycle use has come at a point when ebikes are now a refined product and ready for mass adoption. These are truly a quantum leap for utility cycling, and generally come equipped for all weather. And they can be ridden all year round too - the power assistance means that the riders can moderate their own power output keep warm in winter but not overheat when heavily dressed or wearing waterproofs, similarly they can maintain a cooling headwind in summer. Total game changer.

In conjunction with scooter micro-hire and so-forth, we are in the middle of a paradigm shift in urban and to some extent suburban mobility. The infrastructure provision needs to reflect this emerging reality.

Yeah, eBikes and scooters seem sensible, as long as there is adequate parking. Some places do okay, but there is still a long way to go, especially around Manchester City Centre and more historical commercial areas.

As well as the cyclist it's worth noting that drivers are far from completely blameless here. The lack of basic education in simple things (such as not overtaking a cyclist on the right if they are signalling to turn right; not driving/cycling while using a phone; not ignoring the speed limit; not tailgating) is astounding, at least in my area.

The ultimate solution, as you elude to, is completely segregated cycle ways off the main carriageway, as I noticed had been installed on Oxford Road last time I was in Manchester
View attachment 79864
Google Streetview image showing a two-lane road with a wide cycle lane separated from the main road by a kerb

This isn't the best example of this type of system, but it's certainly enough to get the general idea. The problem with traditional cycle lanes is that drivers park in them and there's nothing to stop people swerving into the path of a cyclist, so it's not as safe.

Oxford Road is probably the best cycling provision in the city. Especially along the bus/acess only section of the street.

There are also one or two seperate signals for cyclists, which are timed better for our needs, which are nice to see. Shame a network of this quality is still so restricted.

Cycling in London or other large cities is just too dangerous for my liking. Aside from the danger of being squished, there are seriously high levels of pollution and I'm not convinced physical exertion whilst breathing all that rubbish deep into your lungs is all that sensible really.

I doubt it makes much of a difference in regards to pollution, wether you are exercising or not. The health benefits of staying fit probably outweigh the pollution, even if the situation is less than ideal.