Will the loss of CityNightLine impact any other services?

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Muzer

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I haven't yet got my head around exactly which sleepers "share" trains for portions of the route. Is there any chance of the CityNightLine closures this year directly affecting any other sleepers?

I ask this because for some reason the Cologne to Warsaw EuroCity sleeper, which I'm led to believe is operated by Poland, is listed on the CityNightLine maps, when other services aren't. It seems to be the same as the Cologne to Berlin train on the Cologne end, so do we know what the status of this particular service will be? I intend to try to cover as much of the CNL network that we'll be losing as possible, but it'll be a right pain if I also have to include another trip to Poland in this!

Do we know if there's any truth in the rumours that ÖBB will be taking over some of the routes? Do we know which ones (I'm guessing only routes like Munich to Rome, Milan and Venice, as they're the only ones that actually go through Austria)?
 
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30907

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As well as the Warsaw, there's the two Prague services, which are branded CNL in Germany.
DB supply the couchettes for all 3, so it's an interesting question, and the answer's not obvious.

My guess is that ÖBB might show interest in operating from or via Munich in conjunction with EN420 /490, which have only recently been split apart and aren't huge trains.
 

Groningen

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My thought is that sleepers will be removed from DB trains and that nighttrains will become IC or/and ICE.
 

Muzer

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As well as the Warsaw, there's the two Prague services, which are branded CNL in Germany.
DB supply the couchettes for all 3, so it's an interesting question, and the answer's not obvious.

My guess is that ÖBB might show interest in operating from or via Munich in conjunction with EN420 /490, which have only recently been split apart and aren't huge trains.

These Prague services, I'm intrigued by them. To what extent are they actually operated by the Czech railways? Since the ex-Köln one appears to be basically a Czech train and a Polish train, so why does it have anything to do with CNL? I guess the Berlin leg "counts" as CNL?


I didn't realise Munich to Zagreb and Budapest was also under threat. Are there any more services operated by coupling coaches to CNL trains?

EDIT: Actually, I can't find any CNL train that it would make sense to run the Munich to Zagreb jointly with. Did you mean Zurich to Zagreb and Budapest?
 
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30907

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The Prague trains are more like traditional night services, run jointly by several railways. The Köln portion (as it now is) runs in the EN Jan Kiepura as far as Berlin, and then attaches to the first Berlin-Prague EC - but the Jan Kiepura itself is now attached to the first Berlin- Warsaw EC! Whereas the Zürich-Prague is combined as far as Leipzig with the Berlin CNL, and then runs independently.
Different arrangements apply in the reverse direction!
The seats coaches are now marketed by DB as IC, so whether the Köln service will survive as a DB IC carrying PKP and CD sleepers/couchettes is anybody's guess.

The services beyond Munich are pretty complicated. Vienna to Venice, Munich to Venice and Munich to Zagreb run as one train over the Tauern from Salzburg to Villach, and Munich Budapest is attached to Salzburg. Zürich Zagreb runs in a different path altogether.
I think these will stay as they are but under new management.

The DB sleepers, I believe, are pretty new but the couchettes aren't. ÖBB by contrast runs some 50-60 year old rebuilt Wagons-Lits, which are reportedly rather nice in 1st . I'm sampling both later this Spring.
 

Muzer

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If the sleepers (which my friend and I will likely be using if we can afford to — we still have to work out the finances of this trip) are quite new and the issue is solely that the Couchettes need replacing and nobody wants to fund it, why don't they continue to run it as a premium, sleeper-only service? I'm sure they'd still be able to attract custom. Gah! Politics!

Hmm. A lot to think about. So do the Zürich to Zagreb and Budapest trains run completely independently to all CNL services? I'm really just wondering which ones are likely to have to be removed in the worst case that ÖBB don't take over any — or are we now pretty confident that they will take over at least the Munich to Venice services (so that they can keep their Vienna to Venice)?
 

Groningen

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Main nighttrains in Germany currently are:

Amsterdam/Hamburg - Zurich/Muenchen (changing of carriages in Frankfurt am Main)
Berlin/Warsawa - Wien/Budapest (changing of carriages in Breclav)

IC: Frankfurt - Koeln - Hamburg
 

30907

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Main nighttrains in Germany currently are:

Berlin/Warsawa - Wien/Budapest (changing of carriages in Breclav)

This isn't operated by DB at all, so should be unaffected.

Another CNL is Berlin/Prague-Leipzig-Mannheim-Zurich, but CD supply the Prague sleeper.
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If the sleepers are quite new and the issue is solely that the Couchettes need replacing and nobody wants to fund it, why don't they continue to run it as a premium, sleeper-only service? I'm sure they'd still be able to attract custom.

I suspect there aren't sufficient sleepers to make this viable. DB diagram around 25 cars nightly, slightly down from last year when there were persistent reports of sleepers being substituted by couchettes, and other maintenance issues. In addition, the seated coaches are old. Remember that the UK sleepers are specified in the franchise, DB are operated commercially.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So do the Zürich to Zagreb and Budapest trains run completely independently to all CNL services?

Yes. Except that the Munich to Budapest is combined with the Venice CNL as far as Salzburg and then attaches to the Zurich Budapest.
 

Groningen

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There is also a Praha (18.27) - Berlin (23.44) - Koeln (6.56) and v.v. nighttrain. With carriages from Warsawa (departs 18.00).
 
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