Will the number of rail enthusiasts decline in the coming years?

[Strathclyder]

In answer to the OP's overarching question: No, I don't think that the number of people with a interest in the railways will drop off too much on the whole. As has been raised a few times already, there are multiple facets one can take interest in bar the rolling stock - infrastructure/architecture/engineering, timetabling/diagramming, history (on it's own a wide-ranging area of interest), the tech behind the scenes, photography, models etc. And this is without getting into how easy it is to connect with other people with similar interests in general now, thanks in large part to the internet/social media etc.

Speaking on a personal level about this, I fall into the 'younger' category of enthusiasts (25, 26 in less than a month) and my main areas of interest in regards to the railways are heritage/retro locos/MUs, photography, history (pre-grouping locos under BR ownership is a particular fascination of mine at the moment) & infrastructure/architecture/engineering. Within my age bracket and within this particular hobby, I realize that I'm in something of a minority there, but hey-ho lol

 

[MattRat]

Correct. Enjoy that 110mph* max speed Avanti.

(*Yes, I do realise that some sections are being upgraded to 125mph running)

Even if some sections will soon be 125, there will still be corners. That's why I love Pendolino's, it's awesome seeing them literally full tilt as 125. I think they make a good basis for how we keep the enthusiasts going, by which I mean fancy tech.

 

[03_179]

I've noticed a increasing number of younger lads now on stations with their phone/cameras and uploading to Tik Tok train clips.

The other day on a Victoria bound train 5 young lads got on and were talking trains ... that would have been unheard of a few years ago.

 

[riceuten]

I think unfortunately people project their own particular passion or interest onto "railway enthusiasm" (can't say I have ever been interested in "unusual workings" personally) and track the decline or resurgence of the same. I do think trainspotting - as in the pure collection of numbers - may probably die a death, but the interest in the sector will always endure, as it does in many countries. There have been numerous very interesting videos on YT and other social media that I have sound fascinating and would have loved to have seen when I was a teenager and engaged with transport. A shift to the more visual aspect is probably overdue.

 

[XAM2175]

I think unfortunately people project their own particular passion or interest onto "railway enthusiasm" (can't say I have ever been interested in "unusual workings" personally) and track the decline or resurgence of the same.

Exactly this.

 

[mrcheek]

On the subject of certain "modern" trains not being appreciated, I recall when I first started spotting in the early 80s, everbody hated HSTs, because theye werent proper locos.

These days, they seem a lot more popular for whatever reason.

Some day, the Voyagers and Pendolinos will be scrapped, and while many will cheer, others will be desperately fundraising to try and preserve them.

 

[MattRat]

On the subject of certain "modern" trains not being appreciated, I recall when I first started spotting in the early 80s, everbody hated HSTs, because theye werent proper locos.

These days, they seem a lot more popular for whatever reason.

Some day, the Voyagers and Pendolinos will be scrapped, and while many will cheer, others will be desperately fundraising to try and preserve them.

Voyagers perhaps. Pendolino's are a lot more popular however.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Voyagers perhaps. Pendolino's are a lot more popular however.

I dunno, for all Voyagers are pretty rubbish as a means of going somewhere, they probably do fit under the "hellfire" category bashers tend to apply, having large engines, engine noise and (if they remapped the software back to how it was when they were first being trialled in service) able to accelerate like an aircraft.

 

[richa2002]

On the subject of certain "modern" trains not being appreciated, I recall when I first started spotting in the early 80s, everbody hated HSTs, because theye werent proper locos.

These days, they seem a lot more popular for whatever reason.

Some day, the Voyagers and Pendolinos will be scrapped, and while many will cheer, others will be desperately fundraising to try and preserve them.

I'd say this is true but I feel the fundamental difference is that as each generation passes, the raw numbers of people who mourn the loss of the once hated train decreases. For example, I am happy to wager that there were more people who hated the Deltics for replacing Steam than there were who hated HSTs for replacing Deltics. There were then even fewer who hated the 800s for replacing the HSTs.

To expand, in steam days, I sense it was almost normal to like trains. As soon as they went though, I'm sure many here, including myself, would be happy to admit that you needed to be a certain kind of abnormal and different to have a real interest in railways since then. As the railways have become more and more sanitised and modernised throughout the years, you have needed to be even stranger and more different to still hold an interest.

From what I observe, most of the enthusiast interest in railways these days is anything that harks back to the railways of old with locomotives and windows you could stick your head out of. Those who genuinely get the same thrill from seeing a Class 800 pass at 125mph compared to a Deltic at 100mph are staggeringly low in comparison I'd say.

 

[riceuten]

From what I observe, most of the enthusiast interest in railways these days is anything that harks back to the railways of old with locomotives and windows you could stick your head out of. Those who genuinely get the same thrill from seeing a Class 800 pass at 125mph compared to a Deltic at 100mph are staggeringly low in comparison I'd say.

I think there is again a danger here in projection - I am an enthusiast and I have no wish to stick my head out of any window, and have only a passing interest in what kind of traction is provided, and whether or not this is a locomotive or multiple unit.

 

[nw1]

Will add a few more thoughts here as the OP, based on recent posts.

It seems to be a common pattern that the stock of our teenage and immediate pre-teenage years holds a special place in most people's hearts, so for me that would include things like second-generation Southern Region EMUs (class 41x and 42x) and loco-hauled InterCity services. My main years of enthusiasm were approximately between 11 and 16 inclusive, which I guess is fairly typical. However I started having renewed interest with the SWT timetables of the late 90s, between around 1997-99, due to some interesting new high-frequency timetables and interesting diagramming (e.g. CIGs would work 'slow' routes off-peak and be replaced by VEPs in the peak; 442s would work 'fast' routes off-peak with some 442s replaced by CIGs off the 'slow' routes in the peak).

But I also found interest in the later SWT era of the 'white' 444s and 'blue' 450s, as diagramming continued interesting and the fact that two liveries were used kept the railway visually interesting. Also (as said up-thread) Southern had some interest around 2013, with interesting variations to the service pattern round the peak.

I think the effects of Covid on timetables has been the biggest factor in reducing my enthusiasm for the current railway. A common source of interest was the existence of a peak and the consequences of that for diagramming, as I said above. This has gone now so the railway seems very dull and predictable. As I originally said it's not so much the unit types but the lack of a peak and move to dull predictability in diagramming; one of my biggest laments from a rail enthusiast POV is the introduction of the new Thameslink timetable in 2018 as that made the whole Southern/Thameslink area much more predictable diagramming wise; plus (and I'm just talking from an enthusiast POV) the Thameslink 2018 network to me is an unsatisfying jumbled mess.

 

[MattRat]

I'd say this is true but I feel the fundamental difference is that as each generation passes, the raw numbers of people who mourn the loss of the once hated train decreases. For example, I am happy to wager that there were more people who hated the Deltics for replacing Steam than there were who hated HSTs for replacing Deltics. There were then even fewer who hated the 800s for replacing the HSTs.

To expand, in steam days, I sense it was almost normal to like trains. As soon as they went though, I'm sure many here, including myself, would be happy to admit that you needed to be a certain kind of abnormal and different to have a real interest in railways since then. As the railways have become more and more sanitised and modernised throughout the years, you have needed to be even stranger and more different to still hold an interest.

From what I observe, most of the enthusiast interest in railways these days is anything that harks back to the railways of old with locomotives and windows you could stick your head out of. Those who genuinely get the same thrill from seeing a Class 800 pass at 125mph compared to a Deltic at 100mph are staggeringly low in comparison I'd say.

Maybe that's what we need back. Windows you can stick your head out of. Nowadays it's all climate controlled pods, only connected to the world if the train has a harsh ride or loud engine.

 

[richa2002]

I think there is again a danger here in projection - I am an enthusiast and I have no wish to stick my head out of any window, and have only a passing interest in what kind of traction is provided, and whether or not this is a locomotive or multiple unit.

I absolutely get that and is just one part of the hobby. I suppose it depends how we define enthusiast. From my perspective, and perhaps a more traditional perspective, it's either someone who platform ends taking numbers or photos or "bashers".

From your view then, what parts of the railway interest you and have they become more or less interesting to you over the years?

 

[riceuten]

I absolutely get that and is just one part of the hobby. I suppose it depends how we define enthusiast. From my perspective, and perhaps a more traditional perspective, it's either someone who platform ends taking numbers or photos or "bashers".

From your view then, what parts of the railway interest you and have they become more or less interesting to you over the years?

A railway enthusiast to me is someone who shows an interest in the operation of, and travelling by railways. If you define it by "bashers" or "gricers", yes, that is definitely in decline.

I personally enjoy travelling by train (and have done so most of my working life) and also enjoy mainland European rail travel as well. I'm not interested in the numbers of the trains concerned, though I may take some interest in the type of train. I love station architecture and the scenery you pass. Being more able (Covid notwithstanding) to travel further has made this part more attractive.

 

[miklcct]

My interest in trains (and public transport in general) have gradually decreased to the extent that I'm only interested in how I can make commutes more efficient, make public transport more competitive than cars and taxis, make transport networks have operating profit, etc. My interest in rolling stocks is currently limited to how we can design it to squeeze the maximum number of passengers into it during peak hours and have the best performance to provide the minimum headway supported by the signalling system, and in station infrastructure, to maximise the passenger flow during peak hours.

I also have interest in travelling around different places by trains, but only in city and regional commuting networks.

 

[Jimini]

I absolutely get that and is just one part of the hobby. I suppose it depends how we define enthusiast. From my perspective, and perhaps a more traditional perspective, it's either someone who platform ends taking numbers or photos or "bashers".

From your view then, what parts of the railway interest you and have they become more or less interesting to you over the years?

I'm on a similar page to @riceuten here I think -- not really fussed about the 'traditional' stuff like trains / logging unit numbers / photography etc., but I'm fascinated by (in no particular order):

• Signalling, and how it all ties the network together
• Infrastructure, in particluar junctions etc. and their history / how they operate. Electrification projects also worth a special mention
• How the network morphed historically to the current setup we have now
• Architecture and design of stations, bridges etc.
• Growing up in West London, the tube plays a large part of my interest in the subject matter as well

I know a Pendo from a class 80x well enough, and can remember back to the days of hopping off slam door trains on approach to London Victoria etc., but that's probably the limit of my interest on rolling stock.

Feels like when I'm up here (Coventry) our house is wasted a bit on me as I can see the Leamington <> Coventry line from my lounge, office and master bedroom, but wouldn't really know what to look at when the freight trains pootle past! Nice to see the LNWR services back this past week or so, although wouldn't have a clue what type of trains they use.

 

[6Gman]

It would be interesting to know the circulation of railway magazines in the past compared to today.

Would surely tell us something?

I would observe that there are certainly more titles.

 

[Jimini]

It would be interesting to know the circulation of railway magazines in the past compared to today.

Would surely tell us something?

I would observe that there are certainly more titles.

Historically, the metric used was the Audit Bureau of Circulations. Worth noting though that their digital metrics are particularly poor, which is why a number of publishers moved away from this measurement tool, as print replica subscriptions (and regular digital ones too of course) superceded physical print copies:

ABC - Delivering a valued stamp of trust - ABC UK

ABC independently audits and certifies magazine circulation figures to ensure transparency and trust in the magazine industry.

www.abc.org.uk

As you can see by the dates of the most recent submissions and the number of lapsed (publisher) memberships, that's not quite the barometer it once was. The relationship betweeen print circulation and advertising revenues has become far more disparate over the past 10-15 years or so.

 

[nw1]

On the subject of certain "modern" trains not being appreciated, I recall when I first started spotting in the early 80s, everbody hated HSTs, because theye werent proper locos.

These days, they seem a lot more popular for whatever reason.

Some day, the Voyagers and Pendolinos will be scrapped, and while many will cheer, others will be desperately fundraising to try and preserve them.

Perhaps Sprinters and Pacers are another one. While many were sad to see the original heritage DMUs start to disappear in the 80s, nowadays Sprinters and Pacers (when they were around) almost seem like classic stock. And the nice thing about them is that all the different classes are compatible, in the spirit of the Southern Region 41x and 42x stock as well as 33/1s and 73s. This sort of joined-up thinking seems to have deserted the railway...

And I will add that I am definitely sad to see the original Eurostar 373s go. These are really quite modern, relatively speaking - but they were the first type of train to travel to continental Europe so definitely have developed that 'classic' status.

 

[seagull]

Perhaps Sprinters and Pacers are another one. While many were sad to see the original heritage DMUs start to disappear in the 80s

I'm one of those for whom the demise of 1960s-built units and locomotives meant a loss of interest in photography of and travel on the railways. Being able to see the forward view from a heritage DMU, particularly as by the 1980s/90s being able to get a cheeky cab ride was no longer an option, or the majestic power of a locomotive+coaching stock, or the whistle and roar of Class 20s/56s on coal and 37s on China clay, all those things is what made me interested.
I think also the modern "streamlined" railway (few sidings, mostly plain track and passenger operation) holds far less interest for me than the vast yards and depots of a few decades ago did.

 

[Magdalia]

On the subject of certain "modern" trains not being appreciated, I recall when I first started spotting in the early 80s, everbody hated HSTs, because theye werent proper locos.

These days, they seem a lot more popular for whatever reason.

If HSTs had been built with both the power cars at the front, and opening windows, they would have been appreciated from the start.

HSTs with MTU power units are tame compared to Valentas.

Historically, the metric used was the Audit Bureau of Circulations. Worth noting though that their digital metrics are particularly poor, which is why a number of publishers moved away from this measurement tool, as print replica subscriptions (and regular digital ones too of course) superceded physical print copies:

ABC - Delivering a valued stamp of trust - ABC UK

ABC independently audits and certifies magazine circulation figures to ensure transparency and trust in the magazine industry.

www.abc.org.uk

As you can see by the dates of the most recent submissions and the number of lapsed (publisher) memberships, that's not quite the barometer it once was. The relationship betweeen print circulation and advertising revenues has become far more disparate over the past 10-15 years or so.

These days the amount of traffic on this forum would be a better indicator. Perhaps the moderators could arrange for a monthly stats report, so that we can see whether usage is going up or down?

 

[Western Sunset]

As someone born in the same year that 9F 2-10-0s were introduced, I'm probably of the grumpy old man generation. My main interest in the current railway scene is not to collect numbers, or do railtours, or travel along obscure loop lines, or visit heritage lines, or do videos, or watch TV programmes about trains.
What I like to do is try to record the everyday scene, in all weathers, with my little pocket camera. Probably more from a social history angle than anything else.

 

[nw1]

I'm one of those for whom the demise of 1960s-built units and locomotives meant a loss of interest in photography of and travel on the railways. Being able to see the forward view from a heritage DMU, particularly as by the 1980s/90s being able to get a cheeky cab ride was no longer an option, or the majestic power of a locomotive+coaching stock, or the whistle and roar of Class 20s/56s on coal and 37s on China clay, all those things is what made me interested.
I think also the modern "streamlined" railway (few sidings, mostly plain track and passenger operation) holds far less interest for me than the vast yards and depots of a few decades ago did.

I did always enjoy the front view from a heritage DMU, remember doing Knutsford-Manchester (on the sadly lost direct services - journey time was a mere half hour in the mid-80s when they still went via Sale) on New Years' Eve 1984 with such a view, and I think Reading-Guildford on one occasion. Was always annoying when the driver closed the blinds though!

I will agree that the large sidings and depots always gave the railway more character, and I too miss the motive power still present in the 80s, and to a degree in the 90s and even into the very early years of the new millennium. I was just making the point that on today's railway, the Sprinters have become the 'classic' stock.

 

[Calthrop]

I think unfortunately people project their own particular passion or interest onto "railway enthusiasm" (can't say I have ever been interested in "unusual workings" personally) and track the decline or resurgence of the same. I do think trainspotting - as in the pure collection of numbers - may probably die a death, but the interest in the sector will always endure, as it does in many countries. There have been numerous very interesting videos on YT and other social media that I have sound fascinating and would have loved to have seen when I was a teenager and engaged with transport. A shift to the more visual aspect is probably overdue.

A railway enthusiast friend of mine from times past, who was inclined to making rather solemn and sententious pronouncements; was wont to observe sagely that railway enthusiasm, and its practitioners, come in many different forms and guises. I, and I think he, are in accord with @riceuten here. My particular "take" on the hobby has not, I think, been mentioned by anyone else so far in this thread. For me, it is mainly about what there was in the past -- to a large extent, stuff from before I was born, which I have read about / heard about / seen pictures / film of (I'm in my early seventies). I can't claim to be a serious academic historian; I just enjoy "mooning around" over the glories that once were. I never did, when young, much in the way of the then mainstream stuff -- "platform-ending" etc. -- with my being next-to-innumerate, locomotive / unit numbers for their own sake have never held any appeal or interest for me. And Britain's modern commercial rail system and its equipment have in most respects left me stone-cold, for decades past.

Nonetheless, I count myself as fully-paid-up a member of the railway enthusiast fraternity, as anyone who pursues the hobby along more-frequently-met-with tracks. As discussed in the thread: it would seem quite likely that the numbers of devotees of some facets of the hobby -- possibly including those which have long had the greatest quantity of followers, and attracted the most attention -- may decline in the years ahead; but it strikes me as near certain as anything can be -- that the subject of railways, in its widest scope and application, will continue to attract and enchant a more than tiny number of people, far into the future.

 

[Chesh]

I am 42 and have only really developed an interest in trains and the railways, that goes beyond travelling on them over the last 6 months or so. One thing I will note regarding accessibility is that looking at the topic as such from a top level down it can be quite daunting with trying to find a way in to learning about different aspects (lots of acronyms, different class numbers as examples), and that's not even thinking about the history of the railways (my starting interest - as I have a Victorian Civil Engineer in the family, who worked on railways).

I wonder if some people are maybe put off by the minefileld that it can seem to be looking from the outside.

 

[317 forever]

The emergence of the internet may well have made a difference in 2 ways. Firstly, some enthusiasts who want to see for example every EMU or loco of any class may be satisfied locating pictures of them all even if not spotting them all on their travels.

Also, as some young people suddenly feel a curiosity for trains or any type of transport, they may draw some initial satisfaction from forums rather than having to see every individual train of any class.

So, I think the internet has reduced platform train-spotting.

 

[Balders]

I've noticed a increasing number of younger lads now on stations with their phone/cameras and uploading to Tik Tok train clips.

The other day on a Victoria bound train 5 young lads got on and were talking trains ... that would have been unheard of a few years ago.

Mrs Balders is a senior conductor and messaged me yesterday regarding the large amount of people out waiting for the passing of the Pennine Wayfarer tractor tour........a lot of younger enthusiasts (17 and under) lineside and platform side with cameras and phones all poised. Almost every vantage point between Tamworth and Derby had a collection of people. This is a good thing. This pastime may still be regarded as underground or nerdy by those not interested in railways, but clearly there IS an active younger community which appears to be growing.

As one who has always been interested in all aspects of railways (but at heart a dyed in the wool early 80s basher) it is refreshing. Social media is making it "more acceptable"......and I detest that particular phraseology.....because we are all normal.

I returned from the wilderness of building a career to find my railway totally changed. Where are my 31's?! However with some time on my hands I'm enjoying it again. I never thought in a million years I'd enjoy hunting down haulage of all the 465's and 466's but I have *nearly achieved it.

Vivé la difference.

 

[birchesgreen]

Some day, the Voyagers and Pendolinos will be scrapped, and while many will cheer, others will be desperately fundraising to try and preserve them.

Its due to nostalgia. In 20 odd years time enthusiasts will remember the good times when they see the ageing Voyagers, when they were 20 odd years younger themselves and didn't ache all day long!

 

[MattRat]

Its due to nostalgia. In 20 odd years time enthusiasts will remember the good times when they see the ageing Voyagers, when they were 20 odd years younger themselves and didn't ache all day long!

Or maybe some older units are given a bad name? I mean surely there is another unit to bash that aren't Voyagers? I doubt you could actually call them the worst train on the network, but it seems to feel like that's just what people are doing on these forums.

 

[eldomtom2]

Firstly, some enthusiasts who want to see for example every EMU or loco of any class may be satisfied locating pictures of them all even if not spotting them all on their travels.

This I doubt. Books serve(d) much the same purpose, though I concede that widespread video recording may have had an impact.