• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Will you follow the advice on face coverings?

Will you follow the new guidance on face masks

  • Yes, I will wear a suitable face covering when in the suggested situations

    Votes: 56 27.9%
  • Partially, I will wear a covering when on public transport but not in shops

    Votes: 27 13.4%
  • No, I will not wear a covering but am capable of doing so

    Votes: 85 42.3%
  • No, I am medically unable to wear a covering (either for physical, mental or sensory reasons)

    Votes: 6 3.0%
  • No, I will wear a medical grade covering

    Votes: 3 1.5%
  • Not sure yet

    Votes: 24 11.9%

  • Total voters
    201
Status
Not open for further replies.

CaptainHaddock

Established Member
Joined
10 Feb 2011
Messages
2,214
This must be a great time to be a criminal. You could cover your face while committing all manner of crimes without looking odd and no-one will ever be able to identify you!

I might go for the "stocking over the head" look.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,855
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
However, the advice is to wear it on transport and in some shops, which implies carrying a mask about one's person. Keeping a mask uncontaminated in that way, and keeping it uncontaminated including while handling it to put it on, requires some thought. I'm not confident I could reliably achieve it.

How are you going to contaminate if it's, say, in a zipped up pocket? Sanitise your hands first if you think there may be COVID on those.
 

Camden

Established Member
Joined
30 Dec 2014
Messages
1,949

Camden

Established Member
Joined
30 Dec 2014
Messages
1,949
How are you going to contaminate if it's, say, in a zipped up pocket? Sanitise your hands first if you think there may be COVID on those.
Is your pocket contamination free.

You might be fairly confident of this once it's washed (although most jackets can't be washed at high temperatures), but are you going to wash your jacket every time you need to put a mask on?

When you sit down on the train, your sleeves will likely touch your pocket edges. Your sleeves will touch the seat coverings and more. Where will you hang your jacket at work? Will you remember all this when you decant your mask, and find a way to do so safely every time.

Your person can become contaminated quickly and in ways that most people do not think about, which is why the advice around frequent hand washing is so important. Virus on your clothes and hands is irrelevant, as long as it doesn't enter your body.

Overall, the advice as offered - to use face coverings occasionally - poses a number of logistical challenges to ensure this is done safely, increasing in difficultly the longer you remain outside the home. As such, it appears to be introducing a risk that was not previously present.
 

Bantamzen

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2013
Messages
9,735
Location
Baildon, West Yorkshire
Dont see what the problem is, advice is to wear one so why not just go along with it? If the experts are proving wrong and it means maskes were not needed well so be it. However if it is proven masks are required then i am sure we will be grateful. Just been reading about the South Korean Night club where 97visitors have been infected. surely best to just wear the mask as recomended

Wearing masks can be uncomfortable, and indeed some people (like my wife) don't like anything around their necks or faces. And given that the science is still not anything like conclusive. But hey if it makes a few people feel better about themselves...

Anything else anyone would like, full facial masks, plastic bubbles, hazmat suits?? Can't be too careful you know....

This must be a great time to be a criminal. You could cover your face while committing all manner of crimes without looking odd and no-one will ever be able to identify you!

I might go for the "stocking over the head" look.

Yeah, I raised this before and pretty much nobody raised an eyebrow. But now potentially with a whole lot of people wearing almost identical masks, someone could walk into a store and shoplift something, or mug someone at an ATM, and the description would go something like "They were wearing a mask...."

Unintended consequences and all that....
 

Bantamzen

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2013
Messages
9,735
Location
Baildon, West Yorkshire
Last edited by a moderator:

221129

Established Member
Joined
21 Mar 2011
Messages
6,520
Location
Sunny Scotland
The person's comment seemed to suggest potential for mobility while possibly infected
There is potential for mobility when presenting with symptoms. And it is guidance. The guidance you have linked to says exactly that.
 

nlogax

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
5,372
Location
Mostly Glasgow-ish. Mostly.
It's a cheapo Buff. I think it would be sensible to double that over as they are quite thin.

Ah, ok, ta!

My skiing buffs aren't accessible right now so I'm looking at a couple of different buffs on Amazon, the thicker the better. I really don't understand the reluctance of some to wear face coverings for a relatively short period of time and in selected situations. It's downright bizarre.
 

scotrail158713

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2019
Messages
1,797
Location
Dundee
Ah, ok, ta!

My skiing buffs aren't accessible right now so I'm looking at a couple of different buffs on Amazon, the thicker the better. I really don't understand the reluctance of some to wear face coverings for a relatively short period of time and in selected situations. It's downright bizarre.
I agree. If I caught the virus I’m young enough that I’m very unlikely to become really ill with it, so I’m not too worried about catching it. However I don’t want to unknowingly pass it onto someone vulnerable, so if wearing masks when out in public spaces reduces the risk of passing it on then I’m happy to do it.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,855
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I agree. If I caught the virus I’m young enough that I’m very unlikely to become really ill with it, so I’m not too worried about catching it. However I don’t want to unknowingly pass it onto someone vulnerable, so if wearing masks when out in public spaces reduces the risk of passing it on then I’m happy to do it.

That's my take too. Pretty much my entire response to this situation is being driven by altruism rather than fear of catching it, and I am therefore happy to do this too for that reason.
 

Camden

Established Member
Joined
30 Dec 2014
Messages
1,949
Ah, ok, ta!

My skiing buffs aren't accessible right now so I'm looking at a couple of different buffs on Amazon, the thicker the better. I really don't understand the reluctance of some to wear face coverings for a relatively short period of time and in selected situations. It's downright bizarre.
I would hope that my explanation of concerns is straightforward enough to at least get someone thinking how they might potentially put a mask on as safely as possible.

I resent the additional risk, for sure, but my main concern is around the risk pertaining to the majority of people who will put a mask on without a second thought as to what, where and how.

If someone has been out and about, sits down somewhere gets a mask out of their bag, puts it on their lap while they close their bag up and then applies that mask to their face, if any of the surfaces that mask has been in contact with have viral load, that viral load goes straight into their mouth and nostrils. You're certainly more likely to pass the virus on if you contract it, mask or no mask!

Additionally, I would point out while the scientific evidence around the efficacy of masks is shaky at best, there is investigation as to the possibility of the severity of disease being affected by the quantity of exposure (ie masks potentially a risk of creating a mouth zone amplifier).

On the basis of no proven efficacy, there appears to me to be both personal, systemic and potentially even severity risk, for a mere comfort blanket.
 
Last edited:

Bantamzen

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2013
Messages
9,735
Location
Baildon, West Yorkshire
Ah, ok, ta!

My skiing buffs aren't accessible right now so I'm looking at a couple of different buffs on Amazon, the thicker the better. I really don't understand the reluctance of some to wear face coverings for a relatively short period of time and in selected situations. It's downright bizarre.

It isn't bizarre at all, covering your face can be uncomfortable (especially in humid weather), and is not something we are used to doing in our society, especially when interacting with other people. And there's the science, or lack of definitive conclusion on the matter. I am reminded of this scene from Douglas Adams' Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy....

Bartender: “Do you really think the world’s gonna end?”

Ford: “Yes”

Bartender: “Shouldn’t we lie down? Put paper bags over our heads or something?”

Ford: “If you like”

Bartender: “Would it help?”

Ford: “Not at all”
 

nlogax

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
5,372
Location
Mostly Glasgow-ish. Mostly.
I'll be wearing a face covering - likely a buff - in shops and on public transport (should I decide to even use in coming weeks). Anything to even slightly cut the risk of transmission in the very small possibility that I may have unwittingly caught C19 and am asymptomatic. Why should we give a single damn about 'not being used to wearing one in our society?' It's meaningless when there are lives at stake.

Buffs / cloth face coverings != paper bags.
 

nlogax

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
5,372
Location
Mostly Glasgow-ish. Mostly.
I would hope that my explanation of concerns is straightforward enough to at least get someone thinking how they might potentially put a mask on as safely as possible.

Absolutely agree that sensible guidelines that should be followed, yes. I've been looking at the guidelines at the Mayo Clinic's site, but I'm sure even better guidelines are available.

https://www.mayoclinichealthsystem....pic/q-and-a-how-to-wear-a-cloth-face-covering

Mayo Clinic - Q&A: How to wear a cloth face covering
 

td97

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2017
Messages
1,299
As an anecdote, I'd estimate 15-20% of people (staff and customers) were wearing face coverings on my shopping trip today to a local food market and supermarket. This is only a very minor increase compared to previous weeks when this recommendation wasn't published.
I noted those who wore face coverings especially were more likely to touch their face fidgeting/adjusting with the mask/covering.
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
7,600
Went to an M&S simply food yesterday. I don't think anyone was wearing a face covering including the staff. Mind you it wasn't at all crowded so distancing was very easy. Much more relaxing than one of the big supermarkets.

Work wise I'm a train conductor and we've been told we have to do it whether we want to or not to set a good example and are being issued so many disposable 'not a surgical mask but looks like one anyway' type face coverings per shift, to be worn when working trains. Drivers only have to when travelling pass in a nutshell. Also expected to wear them if travelling off duty for whatever reason.

Already seeing complaints about it being uncomfortable and claustrophobic for a whole shift, the company have said if you have your own that work better for you you can use those as long as they're vaguely professional.

I've got nearly 90 minutes travelling pass tomorrow in one go, not particularly looking forward to the experience.
 

221129

Established Member
Joined
21 Mar 2011
Messages
6,520
Location
Sunny Scotland
Went to an M&S simply food yesterday. I don't think anyone was wearing a face covering including the staff. Mind you it wasn't at all crowded so distancing was very easy. Much more relaxing than one of the big supermarkets.

Work wise I'm a train conductor and we've been told we have to do it whether we want to or not to set a good example and are being issued so many disposable 'not a surgical mask but looks like one anyway' type face coverings per shift, to be worn when working trains. Drivers only have to when travelling pass in a nutshell. Also expected to wear them if travelling off duty for whatever reason.

Already seeing complaints about it being uncomfortable and claustrophobic for a whole shift, the company have said if you have your own that work better for you you can use those as long as they're vaguely professional.

I've got nearly 90 minutes travelling pass tomorrow in one go, not particularly looking forward to the experience.
Follow the work safe procedure and tell the company to sod off if you find it claustraphobic etc.
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
7,600
Follow the work safe procedure and tell the company to sod off if you find it claustraphobic etc.

There is a procedure to follow for a discussion with your manager if you feel unable to comply for some reason. Personally I'm not particularly bothered (I don't think - apart from the odd bit of time using a dust mask I've never really worn one for long periods of time out and about) but it's something that has been brought up.

I can't say it's something I particularly relish though, especially as it is primarily to set a good example with something that is shown in capital letters not to be for our protection in our briefing.
 

221129

Established Member
Joined
21 Mar 2011
Messages
6,520
Location
Sunny Scotland
There is a procedure to follow for a discussion with your manager if you feel unable to comply for some reason. Personally I'm not particularly bothered (I don't think - apart from the odd bit of time using a dust mask I've never really worn one for long periods of time out and about) but it's something that has been brought up.

I can't say it's something I particularly relish though, especially as it is primarily to set a good example with something that is shown in capital letters not to be for our protection in our briefing.
My TOC suggested something similar with a few other suggestions and they were laughed out of the meeting. Using masks to justify putting employees at more risk than is needed is unacceptable and needs to be stopped.
 

sheff1

Established Member
Joined
24 Dec 2009
Messages
5,496
Location
Sheffield
Over the last couple of days I have seen no noticeable change in the % of people wearing masks in shops/supermarkets or waiting to board buses/trams. Looking through small shop windows, whilst passing, I didn't see one staff member with a mask.

What also hasn't changed is that of those wearing masks (probably about 15% in total) around 20/25% wear the mask on their chin when walking and pull it up when entering a shop !
 

MDB1images

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2018
Messages
654
My TOC suggested something similar with a few other suggestions and they were laughed out of the meeting. Using masks to justify putting employees at more risk than is needed is unacceptable and needs to be stopped.

Agree with that.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,994
Location
Yorks
What also hasn't changed is that of those wearing masks (probably about 15% in total) around 20/25% wear the mask on their chin when walking and pull it up when entering a shop !

Isn't that because they're only really any use indoors.
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
7,600
Over the last couple of days I have seen no noticeable change in the % of people wearing masks in shops/supermarkets or waiting to board buses/trams. Looking through small shop windows, whilst passing, I didn't see one staff member with a mask.

What also hasn't changed is that of those wearing masks (probably about 15% in total) around 20/25% wear the mask on their chin when walking and pull it up when entering a shop !


Given we've been told quite bluntly that our masks are not to protect us and are useless in that regard, but to set a good example to the public in enclosed public areas and potentially protect them during the short time we are in contact, I can assure you I'll be taking mine off at every opportunity when I'm riding in the cab - otherwise the 3 we are being issued for each shift will not last a full day of being breathed on in a warm train (shifts up to 10 hours in length).
 

61248

Member
Joined
14 Mar 2012
Messages
26
I'm not using a mask, if the become mandatory on trains I will stop travelling.

It may be of slight use in protecting other people If you have Covid 19 but you are putting yourself at greater risk of health problems

Have a read of this to see why I'm saying that:
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/...tent&eId=94285a66-0edc-4ff8-8531-43b518228e92
And what scientific evidence do they present that describes the effectiveness of masks and that warns against the use of face masks by the general public? Here is a good sampling…
  • With near universal use of cloth and medical masks worn in public in Wuhan, China during the 2019-2020 flu season leading up to the COVID-19 outbreak, the outbreak spread virtually unchecked.
  • “Available evidence shows that (cloth masks)… may even increase the risk of infection due to moisture, liquid diffusion and retention of the virus. Penetration of particles through cloth is reported to be high.” “Altogether, common fabric cloth masks are not considered protective against respiratory viruses and their use should not be encouraged.” (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/face-masks.html)
  • “Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection.”
  • The virus may survive on the surface of the facemasks.”
  • “Self-contamination through repeated use and improper doffing is possible.” (https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577)
  • Textile materials (that can be used for cloth masks) can contain harmful chemicals and dyes (i.e. formaldehyde). There is no research available regarding the safety of breathing through such materials but formaldehyde is a gas that can irritate a person’s eyes, nose, throat and lungs, or trigger an asthma attack, even at low concentrations. Prolonged exposure to formaldehyde can cause cancer. (https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fact-sheets/formaldehyde and https://www.gao.gov/new.items/d10875.pdf)
  • Wearing cloth masks in public can create a false sense of security and complacency in which people may neglect other hygiene practices. (https://www.who.int/publications-detail/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak)
  • Frequent washing and drying of a cloth mask can decrease the filtration capacity of the mask. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6599448/)
  • “Neither surgical nor cotton masks effectively filtered SARS–CoV-2 during coughs by infected patients… the size and concentrations of SARS–CoV-2 in aerosols generated during coughing are unknown. Oberg and Brousseau demonstrated that surgical masks did not exhibit adequate filter performance against aerosols measuring 0.9, 2.0, and 3.1 μm in diameter. Lee and colleagues showed that particles 0.04 to 0.2 μm can penetrate surgical masks. The size of the SARS–CoV particle from the 2002–2004 outbreak was estimated as 0.08 to 0.14 μm; assuming that SARS-CoV-2 has a similar size, surgical masks are unlikely to effectively filter this virus.” (https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2764367)

In total, the document presented 18 arguments and studies against the effectiveness and use of masks and 10 showing some limited benefit. After careful scrutiny of the pros and cons, I am landing squarely against the use of them other than by medical personnel in a clinical setting....
 

trebor79

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
4,451
I will not wear a mask or other face covering. I am totally unconvinced that they are effective other than to make the public feel that "something" is being done.
They are also horrible to wear for any significant period of time.
I have noticed week on week that less people are in masks on my weekly Tesco trip. Down to just 1 or 2 people seen with a mask during a 90 minute shop, compared with around 15 or 20% in the first week of lockdown.
I will not use a make or face covering on a train journey either, unless it is mandatory and there is a significant risk of me being punished for not wearing one. If we end up in that world I will try to use other transport options where possible.
 

BJames

Established Member
Joined
27 Jan 2018
Messages
1,365
I will not wear a mask or other face covering. I am totally unconvinced that they are effective other than to make the public feel that "something" is being done.
They are also horrible to wear for any significant period of time.
I have noticed week on week that less people are in masks on my weekly Tesco trip. Down to just 1 or 2 people seen with a mask during a 90 minute shop, compared with around 15 or 20% in the first week of lockdown.
I will not use a make or face covering on a train journey either, unless it is mandatory and there is a significant risk of me being punished for not wearing one. If we end up in that world I will try to use other transport options where possible.
I am in complete agreement but I just feel that some people are wearing masks and then thinking that they're safe because they've got the mask on. People need to be reminded that there is very low evidence to suggest that face masks do anything to stop the spread of Covid-19. Anyway, you'd have to wear the mask without touching it and if you're on a long train journey, I'm sure you will want a drink at some point, which requires handling your mask to be able to do this. I'm not wearing a mask unless it becomes illegal to not wear one.

Edit: sorry read the thread properly and this has already been mentioned but its still a valid point :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top